DBZ's Reputation With "Hardcore" Anime Fans

[thatdbzguy]

It's no big secret that DBZ is pretty much the laughing stock of anime in the eyes of the more "passionate" anime fans (same goes for Naruto and Bleach, although One Piece gets a free pass for some reason). In my experience, bring up DBZ on an anime board, and the most you'll get is "witty" responses about their dislike for DBZ. I mean, yeah, there are plenty of people who dislike DBZ, but no where do I see the disdain towards it more than in the hardcore anime fan crowd.

Why is it that DBZ has become so disdained amongst the hardcore otaku crowd? Is it just because it's popularity makes people want to hate it more or something?

(PS: This is in no way a thread aimed at bashing the particular group I mentioned. I simply just want to go deeper in their "relationship" with DBZ.)

[Kid Buu]

Another thread just got locked for bashing other communities so I don't want to be too vocal with my comments, but I assume a lot of the hate might come from DBZ overshadowing almost every other anime in America. Thus causing a jealously stigma.

Unless they just flat out dislike it, which is an opinion they are entitled too.

[B]

The majority view I see is that it's very much acknowledged as children's fare, which it very much is... I base this statement on how well anyone I've seen talk about Dragon Ball can type.

I'm not entirely sure you can have this conversation without disparaging someone.

[Codarik]

A lot of them just see it as a "bandwagon" anime. Thus making it "overrated".

[Hellspawn28]

Anime hipsters hate anything that is popular.

[TheAldella]

-sigh- I see it less as overrating than anything else on the chopping block. I don't understand how you came to that conclusion. This fanbase and Sonic's fanbase, yo. We're the friggin Sith when it comes to dark sides of passion.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

It's no big secret that DBZ is pretty much the laughing stock of anime in the eyes of the more "passionate" anime fans (same goes for Naruto and Bleach, although One Piece gets a free pass for some reason). In my experience, bring up DBZ on an anime board, and the most you'll get is "witty" responses about their dislike for DBZ. I mean, yeah, there are plenty of people who dislike DBZ, but no where do I see the disdain towards it more than in the hardcore anime fan crowd.

Why is it that DBZ has become so disdained amongst the hardcore otaku crowd? Is it just because it's popularity makes people want to hate it more or something?

(PS: This is in no way a thread aimed at bashing the particular group I mentioned. I simply just want to go deeper in their "relationship" with DBZ.)

A lot of hardcore anime fans of today all have some sort of narcissistic arrogance in what anime they deem is good or bad based on incredible bias regarding age and presentation. A lot of DBZ's most infamous haters were usually Naruto fanboys in my experience that still compare the shows under the same old ignorant delusion. That complicated to convoluted plot-lines, melodrama and overexplanation means a series is deep when it actually doesn't. A lot of these guys think DBZ sucks because they think DBZ's simplicity means it has no plot or depth when that simply isnt true.

[Fizzer]

Well, there are a few factors, in my eyes:

-The popularity. DBZ can't be a "real anime" because it's mainstream, and they hate on it all the more because they see it as over-rated.

-The dub. They probably remember the dub on Cartoon Network, and think that it was an accurate representation of what Dragon Ball is. They think it's child-oriented rather than family-oriented, and there's a pretty big difference.

-DBZ is an old anime, and it's very different to most modern anime series, which is what these "hard core anime fans" tend to be into. They like to know that they watch things that haven't been dubbed yet or never will be.

-The fanbase - outside of Kanzenshuu

[DonZ]

I'm a "hardcore" anime fan, i've watched a lot of good animes. i'm not only a fan of mainstreams like Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece, Bleach or Death note. but Dragon Ball is still on my top favorite animes i've ever watched, and it's gonna be the best forever.

i really wouldn't call them "hardcore" anime fans, they're more like "hipster" anime fans. i hate those kind of people tbh.

[Tzigi]

Just wait: how do you define "hardcore anime fans"? Those who like to brag about the fact that they have watched several obscure anime? Old fans who lived through the various incarnations of manga and anime industry? Or?
Because all the real hardcore anime fans I can think of - those who started watching anime way before it was cool and who watch it still - consider Dragon Ball more or less the same as Sailor Moon and other older series. It has its faults - it's schematic, drawn-out and has inconsistent art but it's a classic. One can sneer at fairy tales describing them as schematic and boring but when they were created, they were fresh and inspiring - the same holds true for Dragon Ball (and a great majority of classics - be they manga and anime, literature, music or art).

[RocktheDragon]

Any relationship DBZ or DB has with "hardcore" anime fans is outside my purview but a lot of the responses in this thread are quiet interesting. I just don't see why anyone would have a reason to hate DB or DBZ unless they had an unwarranted and shortsighted motive. If you love anime (any of it) something in the DB universe would have to click for you. I believe a genuine lover of anime would be able to appreciate the qualities and themes found in DB and any individuals who scoff at DB need to take down their rhetoric a couple levels.

[Flame Dragon]

To be fair, there are lots of people that think they are hot shit in the anime department, but just watched "mainstream stuff" like Naruto, DBZ and Bleach, so many otakus consider them casuals and have begun to hate DBZ because they watch anime that's not that famous, but is widely considered great (i did watch Death Note and FMA and i agree with that) meanwhile casuals watch the mainstream stuff and then stop there without looking at other great animes out there.

It's a pretty stupid reason, but it happens.

[tx3]

cause dragonball is a fighting manga ..like alle the ones you named
and that's kinda like the most mainstream gerne of Mange there is...i am tolerant on Opinions ..everybody can like what he wants ..but when somebody tells me dragonball is bad, death Note is sooo much better ...1. there are two diffrent gernes and 2.) he is an idiot for not seenig what dragonball mean for Anime ..without dragonball ..they might be no Death Note nore Naruto...Dragonball is Anime lol

[TheGreatness25]

To keep this going without bashing other fan communities (is that what we're calling it?), we can just discuss why it is or isn't "real" anime.

I mean just because they don't spend episodes sitting in a quiet place talking to themselves and have random scenes of females bathing and whatnot, doesn't make it any less of an anime. Lots of animes have fighting and lots are geared towards a younger crowd. All I can say is without DB, many anime fans wouldn't even know what anime is. Particularly because the formula would be totally changed. Now it's left uncut with good translations and the music of intact, etc. The old anime formula was to take it, Americanize the names, add some "hip" track to it, and make it as corny and childish as possible. I believe Dragon Ball was the first anime where fans were so into it that they sought out more than what was shown to them at the time and discovered it's original version. Then that version became so popular that companies went, "Hm, look at it's success. Maybe we can bring over this show and it will be a hit too!" And that turned into, "Hey, the fans really don't like when we westernize this, so let's keep the audio track and do a direct translation." And bam, anime expanded. I credit Dragon Ball because I never knew anyone to care about the westernizing of Sailor Moon or Pokemon or Astroboy, etc. Dragon Ball was the make or break anime that was tested in the market and the response to it was what garnered the anime craze. So to whoever decides to take anything away from Dragon Ball, just know that I honestly believe it is the sole reason that the majority of fans, especially in the US even know what anime is.

[baneofdemon22]

I don't understand why people would make others feel inferior for not being into cartoons as much as them. It' ridiculous to me. I don't understand why it's such a big compliment on your life that you're hardcore about watching TV. I could understand being hardcore at working out, or about holidays, because you're spreading the festivities throughout your neighborhood, or being a hardcore environmentalist, vegan, because you're trying to protest animal torture or hardcore politics. But, you see yourself as a better human being because of your amount of interest and the variety of TV you watch?

I haven't liked any anime outside of Dragonball and if I'm put down because of that, I pity them.

[TheGreatness25]

I, myself, don't really enjoy anime either. I only like the Street Fighter animated movies (not even that awful series) and Cowboy Bebop. Otherwise, I can really say I don't enjoy any other anime. Never had a Pokemon phase, Yu-Gi-Oh was a pure hatred of mine, Naruto looked like garbage to me, One Piece looks silly, Gundam Wing was boring, Death Note made me sleep, Bleach made me sleep, Full Metal made me sleep, Akira was the most boring thing I ever saw, and I still don't criticize anyone for liking them. If the conversation turns to those, I just stay out. But isn't that what's great about DB? Anime fans and non anime fans can love the thing.

[Ajay]

There's elitists in anything really. Film, games, music - there's always people who will look down on your tastes.

It's no different to a film fan going 'Oh, you enjoyed The Avengers? Ha. Why don't you watch real cinema and watch some Dogme95 films'. It's silly. You can appreciate both ends of the spectrum in terms of quality and taste, it doesn't really matter.

Same goes with anime. I can go from K-ON! to Sakamichi no Apollon to Elfen Lied to Dragon Ball. They're all different and they're all decent at what they try to be. It's absurd to mock someone for one part of their tastes.

I don't think Dragon Ball holds up to many of the other shows I watch if you actually break it down critically but it's still possibly my favourite of all time.

Death Note made me sleep, Full Metal made me sleep.

And yet this makes me sad

[TheGreatness25]

Sorry lol It's just not my thing.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Anime hipsters hate anything that is popular.

Pretty much this. Lots of fans - of anything really, it's not solely an anime problem - like to look down on others for their preferences not matching their own. It's sadly just the way fandom works, the dark side of it. For every openminded fan that just likes to watch whatever they like to watch, you'll find another that disowns anyone that happens to like the popular stuff, or the moe, or the shojo, or the shonen, or etc. With DBZ in particular, I think it is partially just how big of a franchise it is, and how big it continues to be. Other than Naruto, DBZ is the only other anime to consistently get it's video games released outside of Japan, so it's always staying in the limelight that way too.

And then you have lots of people who like DBZ and non other anime. That's not a bad thing by any means, if all you like is DBZ that's perfectly understandable - but sadly I've seen other anime fans use that to discredit people too.

[ChiChiFan]

Some think it's cool to bash DragonBall Z and praise another anime that isn't mainstream. People can like who they like but don't tell someone that this show is bad and this show is good. There are a lot of anime shows I don't care for but you won't see me make a big deal about it. Liking DragonBall Z does not make you less of an anime fan, considering DragonBall is an anime show.