Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[Ajay]

Maybe I'm missing some context, but I've read Gyt Kaliba's original post several times, and I'm not sure I get it. What's the inappropriateness? Because someone asked about Abridged? Bringing up Abridged with Nozawa there? What exactly did he say?

Nozawa and other Japanese cast members have flown across the world and are in the same room as the English cast. This is literally a once in a lifetime event and the best thing this guy can come up with is to ask about a fanmade online parody. It's just totally absurd.

Schemmel rightfully threw back at him essentially what I just wrote. The whole thing was horribly awkward.

[TheGmGoken]

Maybe I'm missing some context, but I've read Gyt Kaliba's original post several times, and I'm not sure I get it. What's the inappropriateness? Because someone asked about Abridged? Bringing up Abridged with Nozawa there? What exactly did he say?

Nozawa and other Japanese cast members have flown across the world and are in the same room as the English cast. This is literally a once in a lifetime event and the best thing this guy can come up with is to ask about a fanmade online parody. It's just totally absurd.

Schemmel rightfully threw back at him essentially what I just wrote. The whole thing was horribly awkward.

So Mr.Sean bashed him for it? I'm confused what did Sean S. say?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I want to say no. Kaiser said it best; Dragon Ball's fanbase, at least as represented online, is so ridiculously huge that's inevitable that some people won't have the tact to know when joke-dropping is appropriate. I know one such person personally, he'll drop them in real-life conversation when he knows at least one other person in the conversation will get it. I question how big a deal the "If DBZ were written like Abridged I would watch it" really is, probably not the same effect that Yu-gi-oh! Abridged is having on the Yu-gi-oh! fandom- but then DBZ Abridged hasn't descended into it's own parody universe the way LittleKuriboh has (For all the hard work the man has done and nonsense he puts up with!). But then, I don't get the philosophy; just because I like Antfish's JoJo parodies doesn't give me any right to comment on Araki's actual work.

Maybe I'm missing some context, but I've read Gyt Kaliba's original post several times, and I'm not sure I get it. What's the inappropriateness? Because someone asked about Abridged? Bringing up Abridged with Nozawa there? What exactly did he say?

It would be bringing up Abridged with Nozawa there; it's effectively wasting the panel time of something that may well never happen again on a question Sean has probably answered enough times as to circulate through non-convention channels. It doesn't deny the attendee the right to ask, but, well, anything Nozawa-related is a bigger fish to fry. Is everyone chastising the guy being selfish? I suppose, but not for any mystic, arcane reason.

[Rocketman]

It is incredibly annoying trying to discuss Yugioh nowadays since HURRR CHILDREN'S CARD GAMES MEGA ULTRA CHICKEN MELVIN PBBBBT

I can easily see TFS going like that. Hell, I did see that when people wouldn't shut the fuck up about HERP MRPOPO PECKING ORDER TOAST LOOOOOOOL

[andrewtuell1991]

I'll admit it does get extremely annoying when people use TFS quotes on non-TFS DragonBall videos and it pisses me off to no end when I see people request that the TFS voice-cast be posted along the official English voices on behindthevoiceactors.com but I don't think it can ever damage the reputation of the franchise.

If Toei making not one but two abominable anime adaptations didn't hurt it, if the many garbage pre-Kai English dubs didn't ruin it, if fucking Dragon Ball Evolution didn't hurt it, nothing will.

[Mewzard]

Maybe I'm missing some context, but I've read Gyt Kaliba's original post several times, and I'm not sure I get it. What's the inappropriateness? Because someone asked about Abridged? Bringing up Abridged with Nozawa there? What exactly did he say?

Nozawa and other Japanese cast members have flown across the world and are in the same room as the English cast. This is literally a once in a lifetime event and the best thing this guy can come up with is to ask about a fanmade online parody. It's just totally absurd.

Schemmel rightfully threw back at him essentially what I just wrote. The whole thing was horribly awkward.

So Mr.Sean bashed him for it? I'm confused what did Sean S. say?

To quote Sean directly (going from a video, so I might not have typed it fully right, but it's just over an hour into the panel):

"With all respect, this is a-I'm not even gonna-I think it's funny, but this is a Dragon Ball Z panel, you know? That's my feeling on it." "It's funny, I've met those guys before, it's very mixed feelings for me, I'm not gonna comment, if the other cast members want to comment, that's fine." *silence*

It wasn't the time or place for it. Just talking to Sean, I imagine that'd be fine, or at a panel specifically for him...he's mentioned it before, I seem to recall (and we know Kyle Hebert's cool about it, and Chris Sabat, who wasn't there, has said he loved it).

But the man was at a once in a lifetime meeting with portions of the Japanese cast, as he sounded as enthused (or even more so) to meet Masako Nozawa as many fans did that asked questions.

The voice casts from both sides just seemed to be having fun, and it should have been focusing on that magical meeting. Who knows if it will ever happen again...though I'd kill for it to happen again and to go to it (throw in Chris Sabat, Tohru Furuya, Ryo Horikawa, Chris Ayres, and we'd have some straight up magic).

But yeah, on the matter of TFS and the series, no, it's not their fault some fans act in questionable ways. If it wasn't Abridged jokes, it'd be Over 9000 and Broli's Power is Maximum. That's just how some fans are.

Having spoken to both KaiserNeko and MasakoX before (LittleKuriboh as well), I can tell you they're just well-meaning fans having fun with franchises they love. That should never be considered a bad thing, and I'll support them in the future, just as I will both Funimation and Viz for one of my favorite series ever.

[RandomGuy96]

It is incredibly annoying trying to discuss Yugioh nowadays since HURRR CHILDREN'S CARD GAMES MEGA ULTRA CHICKEN MELVIN PBBBBT

I can easily see TFS going like that. Hell, I did see that when people wouldn't shut the fuck up about HERP MRPOPO PECKING ORDER TOAST LOOOOOOOL

Yeah, pretty much. People will often blindly quote TFS to look clever or to support their arguments, which is usually pretty laughable. That's the unfortunate side effect of being so quotable in the first place, I guess.

I don't think that TFS has damaged the franchise's reputation. I do however think that, via their comedic over exaggerations, they're probably responsible for unintentionally spreading many misconceptions, both major and minor. You know what I mean: "Krillin's so weak and cowardly, even Ten's stronger than him", "Raditz = Saibaman", "Goku's a complete retard", "power levels are bullshit!", "there's only supposed to be one Super Saiyan", "Chi Chi is a raging bitch", etc. There's nothing wrong with TFS doing this, and they make for a lot of good jokes (which is why they're so well memorable and often referenced), but some fans simply can't recognize that a parody is a parody.

[Saiga]

Yeah, I think the biggest problem is people taking Abridged's jokes as being true for the original version without realizing they're just jokes, and TFS often sacrifice accuracy for comedy (which makes for some fucking great moments we wouldn't have otherwise). That's on the fans, not Team Four Star, and for the most part I have absolutely no problem with them.

[Haji]

I would recommend watching DBZ first, before watching abridged. same with any series. My friend seen the TFS episode of Bardock and though that those aliens was Saiyans from a long time ago. I haven't seen it yet(TFS version) but, he said that is what it said. But i informed him, it was a joke.

[rereboy]

Nozawa and other Japanese cast members have flown across the world and are in the same room as the English cast. This is literally a once in a lifetime event and the best thing this guy can come up with is to ask about a fanmade online parody. It's just totally absurd.

Schemmel rightfully threw back at him essentially what I just wrote. The whole thing was horribly awkward.

So? Maybe he is more of a fan of the english version so he doesn't have much interest in asking anything to Nozawa, and since he really enjoys DBA the thing he was most curious about was what the english cast thought of the parody.

Honestly, I fail to see what is wrong with that. He clearly has another preferences or a different rating of priority than a fan of the original when given the opportunity to ask a question. And so what? What is the problem with that? Criticizing him for it isn't like implying that his preferences are wrong? And since when is that OK? . Seems a bit elitist to me, like saying that its wrong for him to ignore the original japanese cast when he probably just doesn't have much interest in the original version.

As for the OP, I really don't think DBA subtracts anything to Dragon Ball. It just adds to it. There are many fans who rediscover their love for the franchise thanks to it, many new fans who become fans of Dragon ball thanks to it, and the people who only care about DBA and not really care for DB or DBZ, wouldn't care for it even without DBA, so, its only adding, not subtracting. So the whole notion that its ruining something in DB doesn't make sense to me. A bunch of casuals on the internet and out of it who aren't really fans of DB, but more fans of DBA, doesn't really ruin anything.

[baneofdemon22]

As someone who watched the series for the first time last year, it was really frustrating figuring out what version to watch. Most people were suggesting to just watch Teamfourstar and Kai was complete garbage. I thought they were both shortened versions. I didn't know what the franchise was about and avoided it based on a lot of misconceptions. I knew people who would keep replaying videos of "It's over 9000" and would show it to me, because it was so funny. I didn't understand why someone shouting a number was so funny. I kept seeing TFS memes everywhere which made me think it was some mindless meat-head show, that nerds were obsessing over and getting together to bash. Kind of like all those sites that list "Top 10" reasons why a popular well acclaimed movie or video game is garbage, because they're pandering to their comment section, even though they gave it a high review. But if it wasn't that, than people would constantly bash KAI or the Japanese version, because the dialogue and acting was awful, and without Bruce Falconer, the show is crap.

I don't think Teamfourstar has done anything to damage the franchise. They seem to love and respect the franchise and all they are doing is parodying it. Unfortunately I couldn't enjoy it, because any time Dragonball was brought up, I would keep seeing the same memes over, and it was annoying, because I didn't know what it was referencing or I was discussing a scene on a forum and most would dismiss it as garbage (like everything in the Boo arc), and just talk about how Ghost Nappa was the best. That's nothing to do with their quality. Thankfully I was into Breaking Bad before it blew up, because amazing tense scenes with "I am the one who knocks" and "We're supposed to be a family", would have been ruined for me, because of all the memes and constant quoting. It's just fans and they do it with everything. It's just like those RPG video games that the news report about. Video games don't make teens starve themselves, have unhealthy diets, promote having tantrums, etc.

[Nikkolas]

The reason the Abridged Series makes jokes about Krillin being weak and a loser is because that has been a prevailing fan opinion for as long as I can remember. I hope you guys realize that this board is not at all representative of the larger more casual DB fanbase. That fanbase grew up seeing Krillin in Z when he was massively ineffectual compared to....well, every Saiyan and Piccolo and the villains, which made him ineffectual compared to a lot of people.

TFS are good at making jokes about more subtle things but it should be obvious a lot of their humor is based off what had come before. (and a lot of it is true....)

[rereboy]

As someone who watched the series for the first time last year, it was really frustrating figuring out what version to watch. Most people were suggesting to just watch Teamfourstar and Kai was complete garbage. I thought they were both shortened versions. I didn't know what the franchise was about and avoided it based on a lot of misconceptions. I knew people who would keep replaying videos of "It's over 9000" and would show it to me, because it was so funny. I didn't understand why someone shouting a number was so funny. I kept seeing TFS memes everywhere which made me think it was some mindless meat-head show, that nerds were obsessing over and getting together to bash. Kind of like all those sites that list "Top 10" reasons why a popular well acclaimed movie or video game is garbage, because they're pandering to their comment section, even though they gave it a high review. But if it wasn't that, than people would constantly bash KAI or the Japanese version, because the dialogue and acting was awful, and without Bruce Falconer, the show is crap.

I don't think Teamfourstar has done anything to damage the franchise. They seem to love and respect the franchise and all they are doing is parodying it. Unfortunately I couldn't enjoy it, because any time Dragonball was brought up, I would keep seeing the same memes over, and it was annoying, because I didn't know what it was referencing or I was discussing a scene on a forum and most would dismiss it as garbage (like everything in the Boo arc), and just talk about how Ghost Nappa was the best. That's nothing to do with their quality. Thankfully I was into Breaking Bad before it blew up, because amazing tense scenes with "I am the one who knocks" and "We're supposed to be a family", would have been ruined for me, because of all the memes and constant quoting. It's just fans and they do it with everything. It's just like those RPG video games that the news report about. Video games don't make teens starve themselves, have unhealthy diets, promote having tantrums, etc.

You could just have searched wikipedia for Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Abridged. You would have your answers.

[baneofdemon22]

I think I figured it out just fine. I've watched the series 6 times.

[Mystic Buu]

TFS didn't damage the reputation of the franchise,TFS fans damaged the reputation.Team Four Star made DBZA because of fun and entertainment and TFS fans post TFS memes on EVERY DBZ VIDEO.That really annoys me and seeing NAAAAAIIIIL every time is even more annoying.

[Ajay]

So? Maybe he is more of a fan of the english version so he doesn't have much interest in asking anything to Nozawa, and since he really enjoys DBA the thing he was most curious about was what the english cast thought of the parody.

Honestly, I fail to see what is wrong with that. He clearly has another preferences or a different rating of priority than a fan of the original when given the opportunity to ask a question. And so what? What is the problem with that? Criticizing him for it isn't like implying that his preferences are wrong? And since when is that OK? . Seems a bit elitist to me, like saying that its wrong for him to ignore the original japanese cast when he probably just doesn't have much interest in the original version.

I feel like you're misconstruing what the issue is here. It's not about dub preference, rating the priorities of fans or ignoring the Japanese cast - there's no elitism here. It's just plain and simple context awareness. It was a gross misunderstanding of the significance of the event and a question that deals with something in a bit of a legal grey area let alone something half the panel wouldn't be aware of.

Here's the video for context (1:02:20). I think perhaps it takes watching the entire panel to really get the feeling of it all. It was a totally balanced (dub/sub, I mean) and relevant Dragon Ball Z panel and that guy's question was just totally out of nowhere and felt entirely inappropriate. Perhaps in any other context it would be okay but for something of that magnitude, totally wrong.

[rereboy]

I feel like you're misconstruing what the issue is here. It's not about dub preference, rating the priorities of fans or ignoring the Japanese cast - there's no elitism here. It's just plain and simple context awareness. It was a gross misunderstanding of the significance of the event and a question that deals with something in a bit of a legal grey area let alone something half the panel wouldn't be aware of.

Here's the video for context (1:02:20). I think perhaps it takes watching the entire panel to really get the feeling of it all. It was a totally balanced (dub/sub, I mean) and relevant Dragon Ball Z panel and that guy's question was just totally out of nowhere and felt entirely inappropriate. Perhaps in any other context it would be okay but for something of that magnitude, totally wrong.

I don't think so. He is a fan asking the question he is most curious about to the person he wants. Just because we believe that there were better questions to be asked given the composition of the panel and our opinion on what matters most, that doesn't mean he did anything wrong or that he should even agree with us in what the most relevant or important question is.

Really, what does it matter to him that some of the Japanese cast is there if he doesn't care all that much about the japanese cast / original version, and prefers the dubbed version? It really doesn't. The japanese cast is there for the fans of the original version, not him. And is that wrong? No, its perfectly alright to prefer the dub, its all a matter of opinion. And is it wrong to ask one of the official cast of the dub what he thinks of a famous english fan parody, given the fact that he enjoys that parody? I see nothing wrong with that, its easy to understand that the answer to that question would be very interesting to him.

Its no different than if Saturday Night Live or something like that did a very funny parody of Dragon Ball and he asked what he thought about that parody. We might not agree that that's the best question we could have asked, but so what? If that's what he is most curious about, what's the problem?

So, exactly what is wrong with the situation, besides him not conforming with what we believe are the most relevant and important questions, which isn't actually wrong? I see nothing wrong.

(And no, fan parodies are not a gray area at all, they are protected by fair use and the right to parody. Things in gray areas don't really have protection but they also aren't deemed illegal or prosecuted legally.)

[dbboxkaifan]

I remember watching every episode when I first liked it but now I don't even care about it at all, I guess I just grew bored of its comedy and such.

TFS isn't to be blamed for damaging whatever may be at fault, it's the fans who don't know the difference between what they're doing and the original work.

On Ryan Higa's DBZ video I read comments about how people thought that lame crap was better than the real product *sigh* just one more reason to avoid replying to YouTube comments.

[Ajay]

I don't think so. He is a fan asking the question he is most curious about to the person he wants. Just because we believe that there were better questions to be asked given the composition of the panel and our opinion on what matters most, that doesn't mean he did anything wrong or that he should even agree with us in what the most relevant or important question is.

Really, what does it matter to him that some of the Japanese cast is there if he doesn't care all that much about the japanese cast / original version, and prefers the dubbed version? It really doesn't. The japanese cast is there for the fans of the original version, not him. And is that wrong? No, its perfectly alright to prefer the dub, its all a matter of opinion. And is it wrong to ask one of the official cast of the dub what he thinks of a famous english fan parody, given the fact that he enjoys that parody? I see nothing wrong with that, its easy to understand that the answer to that question would be very interesting to him.

Its no different than if Saturday Night Live or something like that did a very funny parody of Dragon Ball and he asked what he thought about that parody. We might not agree that that's the best question we could have asked, but so what? If that's what he is most curious about, what's the problem?

So, exactly what is wrong with the situation, besides him not conforming with what we believe are the most relevant and important questions, which isn't actually wrong? I see nothing wrong.

(And no, fan parodies are not a gray area at all, they are protected by fair use and the right to parody. Things in gray areas don't really have protection but they also aren't deemed illegal or prosecuted legally.)

I don't understand why you seem to think it has anything to do with liking the original or English version of the show. That has nothing to do with it. It's not wrong to ask that question, it's just about context. In the context of that event, it was just poor timing.

And as for the legal gray area, from what I understand, actually using footage from the show to overdub and profit from is where the grey area comes in.

[rereboy]

I don't understand why you seem to think it has anything to do with liking the original or English version of the show. That has nothing to do with it. It's not wrong to ask that question, it's just about context. In the context of that event, it was just poor timing.

And as for the legal gray area, from what I understand, actually using footage from the show to overdub and profit from is where the grey area comes in.

Didn't he ask the question to the cast of the dub, ignoring the japanese cast? From the posts in the topic, I believe that's what happened. So, if he preferred to do that, I believe is safe to assume that he is more of a fan of the english version than the original. And even if that's not the case for some reason, the point is that's the question he was most curious about, he simply preferred that question over others.

Just because we would prefer other questions over the one he asked, it doesn't mean that he is wrong in being curious about that. Its still just a matter of preference. Just because we believe that there are better questions, especially since the japanese cast was there, that doesn't mean that he HAS to agree with us, or even agree with us in caring all that much about the japanese cast. And there's nothing wrong with that.

And no, they do DBA completely for free. Whatever significant profit they might achieve is a completely indirect profit achieved only due to the fact that they are famous due to website visits and such. The use of parts of the actual footage as well as those kinds of indirect profits are also protected by fair use and the right to parody and such. Sites like youtube taking down videos are not a good example or a good argument of what might be illegal or not because, besides their detection system sucking, they are overzealous on purpose so that they don't have to defend themselves agaisnt complains, so they usually take down stuff just based on complains, no matter if there's an actual strong legal argument for such.

A gray area is more like, for example, prostitution in my country. I believe that prostitution is illegal in the USA, but in my country its not illegal or prosecuted, but its also not protected or recognized as a profession or legalized. It completely stands on the middle, with no protection, and that's the gray area. I understand why you would say that DBA is in a gray area, but I don't really agree. It has legal protection and is a recognized activity. There can be some discussion regarding what might go outside the realms of fair use and parody, but I really don't believe DBA goes outside those realms at all.