Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 10; Still Unreleased

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by B » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:23 am

I don't think the song was "leaked". It was posted back in September and we're only hearing about it now because linkdude20002001 was awesome/obsessed enough to actually look into it.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Fennekin » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:27 am

B wrote:I don't think the song was "leaked". It was posted back in September and we're only hearing about it now because linkdude20002001 was awesome/obsessed enough to actually look into it.
What I'm thinking is that David Steele put it up with Ocean's permission. It's entirely possible he doesn't realize how popular the series is and how things have been pretty hush hush on the production on this dub. I wouldn't be surprised if now that it's been made aware publicly, Ocean has Steele take down (Even though fans will probably still have copies of it).

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:18 am

Fennekin wrote:
B wrote:I don't think the song was "leaked". It was posted back in September and we're only hearing about it now because linkdude20002001 was awesome/obsessed enough to actually look into it.
What I'm thinking is that David Steele put it up with Ocean's permission. It's entirely possible he doesn't realize how popular the series is and how things have been pretty hush hush on the production on this dub. I wouldn't be surprised if now that it's been made aware publicly, Ocean has Steele take down (Even though fans will probably still have copies of it).
If it's his own work he can publish it whenever and wherever he wants - providing, that is, that he hasn't sold its exclusive publishing rights to the people behind the dub or the act of publishing it doesn't contradict a none disclosure agreement.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Solidus » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:03 am

According to David Steele's page on Linkedin he is currently working for Keenlyside music and has been doing so since 2009. It's possible that Tom Keenlyside and co composed the music for this theme.
I'd like to point out that just because the theme is changed doesn't necessary mean that the bgm will be replaced. Toei's dub of Pretty Cure had different OP and ED themes but the bgm remained the same.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by 90sDBZ » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:17 am

GravediggerNALK wrote:
ringworm128 wrote:
reminiscent of the original FUNimation/Ocean/Saban-dub
Oh dear lord no, Faulconer, Johnson, Menza even Megaman music. ANYTHING but the Shuki Levy score.
I would've liked to have seen Kai with the Faulconer score as an OPTION on the blu-rays. I enjoyed Levy's score because of how . . . "dark" it felt sometimes. Faulconer's score had some GREAT moments in that tone too (especially during the Garlic Jr. arc). There's just something about adding that "dark", ominous feel to the BGM sometimes in DBZ that really makes it feel more intense. HFIL, the only times I can honestly take Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa seriously at the beginning of Z is are when I'm watching it with either of the replacement scores.
I agree on Levy's dark feel suiting the serious moments of the show. I would love for them to have Levy score this to be honest.

Although if it does turn out to be Tom Keenlyside again then I hope he uses more Monster Rancher music than Megaman music. Some of the Monster Rancher music used in the Fusion and Kid Buu sagas actually fit pretty well. In all honesty I'd be up for a more Zish dub of Kai. Corny can be good if not made too corny like that song clip. I'd be fine with it if it was on the same level of corniness as the Saban dub.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:28 am

90sDBZ wrote:Although if it does turn out to be Tom Keenlyside again then I hope he uses more Monster Rancher music than Megaman music. Some of the Monster Rancher music used in the Fusion and Kid Buu sagas actually fit pretty well. In all honesty I'd be up for a more Zish dub of Kai. Corny can be good if not made too corny like that song clip. I'd be fine with it if it was on the same level of corniness as the Saban dub.
If Keenlyside was actually writing the score bespoke for Kai then it might not turn out so bad, as the guy is a serious musician. If he's following the Faulconer model of having composers in residence write underneath him, which would appear to be the case in this instance, then it's anyone's guess as to how the score will turn out.

It's not always a bad model to follow, though - as Hans Zimmer, it's just dependent on the talent and experience of the guys working beneath the name on the credits.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by ErikB » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:53 pm

Blade wrote:
Fennekin wrote:
B wrote:I don't think the song was "leaked". It was posted back in September and we're only hearing about it now because linkdude20002001 was awesome/obsessed enough to actually look into it.
What I'm thinking is that David Steele put it up with Ocean's permission. It's entirely possible he doesn't realize how popular the series is and how things have been pretty hush hush on the production on this dub. I wouldn't be surprised if now that it's been made aware publicly, Ocean has Steele take down (Even though fans will probably still have copies of it).
If it's his own work he can publish it whenever and wherever he wants - providing, that is, that he hasn't sold its exclusive publishing rights to the people behind the dub or the act of publishing it doesn't contradict a none disclosure agreement.
That's not necessarily true depending on if he was contracted to create the theme and what the conditions of said contract were. Working in TV usually involves signing non-disclosure agreements; a legal agreement that you won't share details of the production, including the work you produced for it, until a certain point (usually the production's premier). I think it's safe to say that that simply wasn't the case here though. It hasn't been taken down and, as far as we know, Ocean hasn't taken any action against him.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:00 am

ErikB wrote:That's not necessarily true depending on if he was contracted to create the theme and what the conditions of said contract were. Working in TV usually involves signing non-disclosure agreements; a legal agreement that you won't share details of the production, including the work you produced for it, until a certain point (usually the production's premier). I think it's safe to say that that simply wasn't the case here though. It hasn't been taken down and, as far as we know, Ocean hasn't taken any action against him.
I assume you didn't actually read all of my post before you replied to it? I'll highlight the last part again for you:
[providing] the act of publishing it doesn't contradict a none disclosure agreement.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by madged1 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:02 pm

I recently sent an email to David Steele asking a few questions. I sent him the email on his contact page, so I can't see the exact message and list of questions I sent him (not the best with memorizing this sort of stuff...).

I asked him a few questions such as: when did he record that song; is it the full version; if it isn't the full version, when will he do it.

I did receive a reply from David Steele though:

"Hi

thanks for your email, I did that spot in 2009 and unfortunately don't have any info on it as I was just hired to sing, I can't even remember if it was a demo or went final?

thanks for your interest and have a great day!

cheers

david"


Unless he isn't allowed to discuss specific details of the theme song, it seems Mr Steele hasn't a lot of information to share. The only real pieces of information from that email is that he recorded it in 2009, and it may or may not be the final song. I doubt it was the final thing though; it just feels like a 'concept' for the final song.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:08 pm

madged1 wrote:I recently sent an email to David Steele asking a few questions. I sent him the email on his contact page, so I can't see the exact message and list of questions I sent him (not the best with memorizing this sort of stuff...).

I asked him a few questions such as: when did he record that song; is it the full version; if it isn't the full version, when will he do it.

I did receive a reply from David Steele though:

"Hi

thanks for your email, I did that spot in 2009 and unfortunately don't have any info on it as I was just hired to sing, I can't even remember if it was a demo or went final?

thanks for your interest and have a great day!

cheers

david"


Unless he isn't allowed to discuss specific details of the theme song, it seems Mr Steele hasn't a lot of information to share. The only real pieces of information from that email is that he recorded it in 2009, and it may or may not be the final song. I doubt it was the final thing though; it just feels like a 'concept' for the final song.

Given that the alleged Ocean dub of Kai hasn't even been announced, let alone aired - over 4 years is one hell of a gestation period to be sat on something like this. Talk about missing the bus.

I still don't see how the production makes any sense - given that the territories that retrieved the Westwood Dub of Z received the Funimation dub of Kai this time around, so I genuinely don't understand who they're producing it for.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:20 pm

Blade wrote:Given that the alleged Ocean dub of Kai hasn't even been announced, let alone aired - over 4 years is one hell of a gestation period to be sat on something like this. Talk about missing the bus.

I still don't see how the production makes any sense - given that the territories that retrieved the Westwood Dub of Z received the Funimation dub of Kai this time around, so I genuinely don't understand who they're producing it for.
While I completely agree that they should have aired this dub significantly sooner, I don't think the use of the word "alleged" is warranted, because that implies that the dub wasn't produced. I absolutely believe that this dub was either produced or partially produced. Way too many people have come forward and admitted that this dub is happening, so it's too well-coordinated to be a lie. It might also be worth noting that not all of the territories that received the Westwood dub of Z have received the FUNimation dub of Kai (Canada being the most notable example).

So I absolutely believe that work was done on this dub, I don't think anybody was lying when they talked about it. My theory, though, is that there's something going on behind the scenes that is preventing this dub from airing. Among the many possible reasons (some likely, some not likely) that I can theorize are:
  • -The difficulty of coordinating recordings with both the Ocean cast and the Blue Water cast (Kirbopher and another voice actor said that some roles were being outsourced to Blue Water).
    -Blue Water, from speaking to colleagues of mine on LinkedIn, is apparently a non-union dubbing company. Don't quote me on this--especially since I'm not nearly as familiar with ACTRA, the Canadian actor's union, as I am with SAG-AFTRA, the U.S. actor's union--but I believe the Ocean dub of DBZ was a union dub. Like I said, I don't know how ACTRA works, but if their rules allow for both union and non-union cast members, that might be a huge headache in and of itself when it comes to contracts and paperwork.
    -It has been strongly implied that they wanted to dub the whole show before releasing it, rather than releasing it as they go along like FUNi did their dub. That will inevitably take longer.
    -The new announcement of the Buu arc in Kai may have made an already long process even longer, if they're waiting to release it until they've dubbed the whole thing.
    -If they began production before the Music Scandal, they probably needed to re-mix everything when the music was replaced, without an obligation to do it at the holy-crap-we-need-to-remix-this-thing-quickly-because-it's-on-TV pace that FUNimation had to do it at.
    -Toei might be reconsidering their contract with the producers due to how many people have broken their NDAs about this.
    -Toei might be reconsidering their contract with the producers due to how long this process has taken (licensing contracts usually include a clause that says the dub has to be released in some format by a certain date, otherwise the dubbing company is just sitting on the project long after the project is considered new and popular rather than striking while the iron's hot).
    -If Toei has reconsidered their contract with the producers, it may have been given to a new company who decided to redo everything from the ground up.
There could be tons of different reasons. I'm absolutely convinced that work on this dub was done, though.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:42 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Blade wrote:Given that the alleged Ocean dub of Kai hasn't even been announced, let alone aired - over 4 years is one hell of a gestation period to be sat on something like this. Talk about missing the bus.

I still don't see how the production makes any sense - given that the territories that retrieved the Westwood Dub of Z received the Funimation dub of Kai this time around, so I genuinely don't understand who they're producing it for.
While I completely agree that they should have aired this dub significantly sooner, I don't think the use of the word "alleged" is warranted, because that implies that the dub wasn't produced. I absolutely believe that this dub was either produced or partially produced. Way too many people have come forward and admitted that this dub is happening, so it's too well-coordinated to be a lie. It might also be worth noting that not all of the territories that received the Westwood dub of Z have received the FUNimation dub of Kai (Canada being the most notable example).

So I absolutely believe that work was done on this dub, I don't think anybody was lying when they talked about it. My theory, though, is that there's something going on behind the scenes that is preventing this dub from airing. Among the many possible reasons (some likely, some not likely) that I can theorize are:
  • -The difficulty of coordinating recordings with both the Ocean cast and the Blue Water cast (Kirbopher and another voice actor said that some roles were being outsourced to Blue Water).
    -Blue Water, from speaking to colleagues of mine on LinkedIn, is apparently a non-union dubbing company. Don't quote me on this--especially since I'm not nearly as familiar with ACTRA, the Canadian actor's union, as I am with SAG-AFTRA, the U.S. actor's union--but I believe the Ocean dub of DBZ was a union dub. Like I said, I don't know how ACTRA works, but if their rules allow for both union and non-union cast members, that might be a huge headache in and of itself when it comes to contracts and paperwork.
    -It has been strongly implied that they wanted to dub the whole show before releasing it, rather than releasing it as they go along like FUNi did their dub. That will inevitably take longer.
    -The new announcement of the Buu arc in Kai may have made an already long process even longer, if they're waiting to release it until they've dubbed the whole thing.
    -If they began production before the Music Scandal, they probably needed to re-mix everything when the music was replaced, without an obligation to do it at the holy-crap-we-need-to-remix-this-thing-quickly-because-it's-on-TV pace that FUNimation had to do it at.
    -Toei might be reconsidering their contract with the producers due to how many people have broken their NDAs about this.
    -Toei might be reconsidering their contract with the producers due to how long this process has taken (licensing contracts usually include a clause that says the dub has to be released in some format by a certain date, otherwise the dubbing company is just sitting on the project long after the project is considered new and popular rather than striking while the iron's hot).
    -If Toei has reconsidered their contract with the producers, it may have been given to a new company who decided to redo everything from the ground up.
There could be tons of different reasons. I'm absolutely convinced that work on this dub was done, though.
Don't get me wrong - I in no way intended to imply that I think that this dub is either a co-ordinated lie or practical joke, I used the word 'alleged' because, at this point in time, there's no official confirmation, so it feels wrong to talk about it in definite terms - the same way it's wrong to talk in legal terms about someone being guilty of a crime they have yet to stand trial for and up until which point is therefore nothing more than an allegation.

If I were to make a guess, I'd say that this dub did begin production, but for whatever reason, the production was either never completed or shelved - at which point Funimation was able to move in and sell their dub to the territories that the Ocean dub of Kai was to be produced for, such as the United Kingdom. Keep in mind that the UK didn't actually get Dragonball Kai until last year - we had quite a wait, which would make sense if you were to imagine that the Ocean Dub was originally intended for broadcast, but for whatever reason was never delivered.

Keep in mind too that the Westwood dub for the UK was produced and shipped out incredibly quickly and cheaply, and was never intended (and has never seen) a home video release. That's completely at odds with the time frames we're talking about here, given that it seems like even if the thing exists in completed form, they've been sitting on it for 4 years.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by ErikB » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:15 pm

Blade wrote:
ErikB wrote:That's not necessarily true depending on if he was contracted to create the theme and what the conditions of said contract were. Working in TV usually involves signing non-disclosure agreements; a legal agreement that you won't share details of the production, including the work you produced for it, until a certain point (usually the production's premier). I think it's safe to say that that simply wasn't the case here though. It hasn't been taken down and, as far as we know, Ocean hasn't taken any action against him.
I assume you didn't actually read all of my post before you replied to it? I'll highlight the last part again for you:
[providing] the act of publishing it doesn't contradict a none disclosure agreement.
Oh my mistake. I must have been really tired, I could swear I read your post at least 3 times. Sorry.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by LordCrumb » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:35 pm

I honestly don't get why the Ocean Dub team is so popular around here, compared to the regular Funimation team.

I was looking up Ocean Dub clips the other night on YouTube, as I don't have a very good knowledge of their dub other than the original series of Dragon Ball Z. Their dubbing is laughably bad.. aside from their script being almost word for word of the Funimation script, they sound like they are straight out of a generic action cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyILqP80gEA

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Ajay » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:39 pm

LordCrumb wrote:I honestly don't get why the Ocean Dub team is so popular around here, compared to the regular Funimation team.

I was looking up Ocean Dub clips the other night on YouTube, as I don't have a very good knowledge of their dub other than the original series of Dragon Ball Z. Their dubbing is laughably bad.. aside from their script being almost word for word of the Funimation script, they sound like they are straight out of a generic action cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyILqP80gEA
Mainly because there's a large difference between Ocean and Westwood (what you linked). Ocean actually had a decent budget and good voice directors. Westwood...not so much.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:55 pm

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
LordCrumb wrote:I honestly don't get why the Ocean Dub team is so popular around here, compared to the regular Funimation team.

I was looking up Ocean Dub clips the other night on YouTube, as I don't have a very good knowledge of their dub other than the original series of Dragon Ball Z. Their dubbing is laughably bad.. aside from their script being almost word for word of the Funimation script, they sound like they are straight out of a generic action cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyILqP80gEA
Mainly because there's a large difference between Ocean and Westwood (what you linked). Ocean actually had a decent budget and good voice directors. Westwood...not so much.
And while this has never been officially confirmed, it's rumored that the Westwood dub (less commonly known as the "Post-Saban Ocean dub") was recorded at a blindingly-fast pace, so much so that they went through several directors.
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"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Blade » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:06 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote:And while this has never been officially confirmed, it's rumored that the Westwood dub (less commonly known as the "Post-Saban Ocean dub") was recorded at a blindingly-fast pace, so much so that they went through several directors.
It's well known, and I think both Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond and spoke about it in the past.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:53 am

LordCrumb wrote:I honestly don't get why the Ocean Dub team is so popular around here, compared to the regular Funimation team.

I was looking up Ocean Dub clips the other night on YouTube, as I don't have a very good knowledge of their dub other than the original series of Dragon Ball Z. Their dubbing is laughably bad.. aside from their script being almost word for word of the Funimation script, they sound like they are straight out of a generic action cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyILqP80gEA
Around here I think that people like them mainly because of their faithful and well acted dubs of movies 1-3. It shows the potential for them to do a similar dub to Funi's Kai dub. I personally like Ocean's dub of the Saiyan and Namek sagas the most because I love the Levy score that was used in them. But yeah the Westwood dub (later Ocean dub) was atrocious until the Fusion saga when it finally started to improve.

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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by Attitudefan » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:52 pm

Compare Brian Drummond's speech to ascend vs FUNimation's attempt. I mean, it's just night and day with Drummond being the better acted of the two. Vegeta's pride just seeps through Drummond's voice acting.

Plus, I still think the DBZ movies dubbed by the Ocean group are still more faithful than Kai is—this includes the voice actors in their respective roles, where say Goku is more faithful with Peter Kelmais behind the character than Schemmel is—when compared to the original Japanese version.
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Re: Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" dub seems to be coming.

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:58 pm

Attitudefan wrote:Compare Brian Drummond's speech to ascend vs FUNimation's attempt. I mean, it's just night and day with Drummond being the better acted of the two. Vegeta's pride just seeps through Drummond's voice acting.

Plus, I still think the DBZ movies dubbed by the Ocean group are still more faithful than Kai is—this includes the voice actors in their respective roles, where say Goku is more faithful with Peter Kelmais behind the character than Schemmel is—when compared to the original Japanese version.
Opinion. Didn't really liked Drummond. NEVER. Vegeta's pride scenes was better with Sabat and all rage scenes with exception of ONE(We all know which one that is) was better from Sabat. I'm curious on how he'll handle Vegeta in Kai if Ocean ever makes one.
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