GT

[Steven Perry]

Domon, you're a crazy fool.


Here's my monotonous description of GT:

GT is not dramatic. The storyline is babyish. The camera is poop (there are no cool scene transitions like in DBZ). It is not cinematic. It copies Dragonball. The fighters just stand there, taking it in turns to shoot each other with ki blasts (were the creators too lazy to come up with some kick- ass choreography?). I couldn't care less if all the "characters" died. I wish it didn't exist. I hate it.

Personally, I think it would've been the best if Dragonball GT happened some 1000 years after Z... were Goku's unknowing descendants had to defend the Earth. Goku would be a legend... with his story told to kids before they went to sleep.

Dragonball GT is the equivalent of... the poo stuck on the end of my old shoes, which are now in the garbage.

[Xyex]

The Evil Dragon storyline is the prefect example of this. I honestly expected we would deal with each of them for quite a few episodes(surely no fewer than 4 or 5!) but then many of them were defeated in the very episode they were introduced! Wow, that would never happen in DBZ, where taking only 4 or 5 episodes to get to another plot point is considered "fast". That made me happier and moreso excited to watch the show,

This is one reason why I don't care for GT. It feels rushed. It goes by so fast that it's over before it's started. Boring.

[Domon]

To touch upon a few points made in this thread...

logic seems to hold no ground (spinning fan blades? oh noes!)

Meaning? This is Dragonball, where logic never holds any ground.

Vejita, who had made amends with Goku, was put back into conflict with him just for lack of a better use.

Does this refers to his continous insistance on having another fight with Goku? It was explained that this was more for sport/One Last Round than it was the reasons he had in Z.

I mean, Piccolo did literally nothing. And I am not going to count how he got Goku out of Hell.

Apparently, Gotenks never existed.

Gohan forgot how to fight,

The Piccolo arguement is a case of selective-thinking, so I won't get into it. The Gotenks statements implies the writers forgot the character ever existed, which isn't the case. He was brought up a couple time, but prevented from showing up thanks to Goku. Ok, I guess that's not much better, but hey, trying to be accurate here...

That Gohan isn't much of a fighter anymore(which I assume is what you actually meant...) is pretty much keeping in with Z. He never shown a natural instinct to fight, and in the Boo saga, it's said he's not quite as powerful as during the Cell game, focusing more on studies and all that. And at the very end of Z, he seemed to have given up on fighting altogether, having become a scholar and family man.



Don't get me wrong, I do think the other characters should've done more, but there are some inaccurate statements being made in this thread.

The fighters just stand there, taking it in turns to shoot each other with ki blasts

Sounds more like you're talking about Z.

[Akira]

I like that English Audio version of Dan Dan. Thanks for the links man. I wish funimation had done something like that with the intro as well. They did a good job with Dragonball's intro conversion to english, but for Z just rock rythms with no lyrics. That "Step into the Grand Tour" rap shit I CANNOT STAND.

I can remember the day my friend and I went out and bought the first GT DVD release. We came back to his house and he put it in and pressed play. We got about 10 seconds into that song and I said "STOP, press stop right now!" He looked at me confused. I grabbed the remote and messed with the settings so it ran Dan Dan, but with the dub track during the episodes. I told him THAT was the intro I knew from watching a few fansubs years before, and not to start that other intro in my presence ever again. To this day, I've never watched the whole "Grand Tour" song.

What I saw was enough to disgust me, and I refuse to watch GT unless I can see the Japanese intro. I like the dub track during the show itself well enough, but the dub intro is forbidden.

----------------------------------------------------------

I agree that the show was better paced, because of there being no Manga to stall for. I also agree with many of the negatives that were brought up. I will add a few things I saw as positives to the series:

-In many episodes where the "A Team" animators worked on GT, it looked as good as any Z movie in terms of animation quality, if not better. GT has its fair share of "B Team" episodes too, but the overall animation quality with the color shading and sharpness of the visuals often times is a far step up from many of the episodes seen in Z.

-Goku was not wearing the same Fighting uniform that he had been wearing for over a decade in Z. Granted, he switched to the blue uniform at the end of Z. They could have put him back in orange again, but they didn't, and I actually liked Goku's look with the Blue Uniform and Yellow pants.

-There are references in many places to things that happened in DB or Z that only long time fans would pick up on. Nostalgic references like Goku blowing up the Volcano with a Kamehameha, ala Roshi blowing up Fire Mountain in the same way. The Shadow Dragons being based on all the wishes made in DB and Z was another nice touch.

-Vegeta's remarks and actions are some of the funniest ever. My friend and I always thought such remarks he made in Z were funny and GT was no slouch in the Vegeta humor department. Here are some examples of what I mean from both Z and GT dubs:

From Z:
>Vegeta asks Trunks why he is staring at him. Trunks says he just uh..likes Vegeta's Badman shirt. Vegeta scoffs and says "You would."

>Vegeta threatens to turn Android #18 into a Toaster oven.

>Videl is amazed by how much Gohan's family and friends eat at the world tournament before a fight. Goku says "Sit down, join us" and Grabs another piece of meat to eat. Vegeta takes one look at Goku and starts to eat faster almost as if they were in competition.

>Vegeta says stand back at the punching machine and destroys it with one punch.

>At the end of Z Vegeta's opponent at the World tournament starts running his mouth and mocking Vegeta as an "Old man". Vegeta knocks the guy out and says "Inform the officals my opponent has forfeited."

From GT:
>Two guys "Kidnap" Goku early on and call capsule corp to try and ransom him for money. Vegeta answers the phone, "You have who? where? Heh, do whatever you want!" and slams the phone down. PRICELESS

>When coming home from the mall with Bra, a teenager pulls up beside them in another car and says "How about you ditch this geezer and come for a ride with me?" Vegeta slams his car over, rips the guy's steering wheel out and zooms on down the road as the guy goes over a cliff out of control.

All of that stuff is in character and very funny to me. Vegeta's "Look" however, I agree should not have been messed with.

Oh well, I'm done talking about this for now. If I think of other stuff about GT I liked I'll add it in another post later.

[Big Momma]

I think he did, you know, when he KILLED CELL, BOJACK, AND BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF SUPER BOO!

I think Gt would have been a lot better had the fight with Freeza and Cell been a lot longer. I know Goku got stronger, but he couldn't beat them in base form! The other two were training also! What do you think they were doing, playing sudoku!?

[Kaboom]

Um... there's only onething I like about GT.

Super Saiyan 4.

Honestly. It's cool. Just believe me on this one.

And that's about it.

[Zackarotto]

That's another thing about GT; there is no filler material! Well, not the way we usually define it in the Dragonball context. Since the manga is already done and ended, it's impossible for any of this series to be "filler crap" or to paaaaaaaaaaadd things out for the manga to get further ahead. You want a filler-less Dragonball? Well, here it is! It's just bizarre that a common complaint of the series is that it's "too short". Well, that's (partly) because there's no filler.

You're assuming that everybody dislikes filler because there can't be any progress with the story. If written correctly, filler can be almost as entertaining as the main story. Theoretically it could be better than the main events. However, it's almost always written poorly, existing only to slow everything down.

I think it's that poor writing that everybody hates, not the lack of progress. GT has poor writing, so it feels more like 100% filler to me.

As I said in the latest podcast thread, my compliant is that it's too long. I sure as hell wouldn't want GT to be extended any further, not in it's poorly written, boring state.

This is one reason why I don't care for GT. It feels rushed. It goes by so fast that it's over before it's started. Boring.

I honestly can't comprehend this. I wish it went by fast for me, I really do, but it's more like watching paint dry.

I think Gt would have been a lot better had the fight with Freeza and Cell been a lot longer. I know Goku got stronger, but he couldn't beat them in base form! The other two were training also! What do you think they were doing, playing sudoku!?

Sudoku owns. I could easily see Freeza playing, but Cell's got those Saiyan cells in him and wouldn't be able to resist the urge to knock Freeza around every once in a while. Still, he's gotta have some intellectual stimulation, right?

[Domon]

You're assuming that everybody dislikes filler because there can't be any progress with the story. If written correctly, filler can be almost as entertaining as the main story. Theoretically it could be better than the main events. However, it's almost always written poorly, existing only to slow everything down.

I think it's that poor writing that everybody hates, not the lack of progress.

I can only say that the impression I continue to get is that people objects to the very existence of filler, as opposed to how well(or not well) they're written. Certainly whenever they're brought up, the complaint is how "they slow things down", rather than the writing(and also the idea of "ignore it because it's filler").

You're right of course, on the point that filler can be well-written, and I think there's a few where this applies. Likewise, it's also true that they exist only to slow things down.

[Zackarotto]

Certainly whenever they're brought up, the complaint is how "they slow things down", rather than the writing(and also the idea of "ignore it because it's filler").

Okay, so there's no argument that filler is created only to tide things over for a few weeks while some more manga gets drawn. (Unless they decide to make 50+ episodes of filler, in which case, what the fuck are you waiting for, Naruto / Bleach? The end of the manga?)

The problem I see is that this is a completely unnecessary action. Why can't they just take a few weeks off, like an ordinary show? It only pisses people off when they write things that are out of character, or events that conflict with canon statements. The addition of filler material is a waste of budget.

I've been waiting a million years for another Hunter x Hunter OVA, but at least they aren't ruining it with filler! Think about it.

On the other hand, if the company is willing to write good filler, that actually... pleases people and doesn't contradict the official stuff... nobody is going to mind, or ignore it. I liked Goku bonding a little with his son, as did everybody else. I'm also liking the G8 stuff in One Piece right now (I really hope it doesn't go downhill from here).

In short, as long as the animation companies believe there is a point to producing bad filler, I will keep generally hating filler with a passion.

[sangofe]

It takes a lot to get me to sit down and watch DBGT, nevermind the "Step Into Tha Grand Tour, Mutha Fucka!!!" version.

Hahaha, well someone got 'wrapped up' in making One-Piece and GT dub-friendly. But at least they didn't insert terrible CGI neon signs.

This opening was actually used in the French dub...

[Big Momma]

I think Gt would have been a lot better had the fight with Freeza and Cell been a lot longer. I know Goku got stronger, but he couldn't beat them in base form! The other two were training also! What do you think they were doing, playing sudoku!?

Sudoku owns. I could easily see Freeza playing, but Cell's got those Saiyan cells in him and wouldn't be able to resist the urge to knock Freeza around every once in a while. Still, he's gotta have some intellectual stimulation, right?

You have a point....

*hehe, Freeza was Cells b*tch!*

[omae no kaasan]

Planet M2 destroyed anything and everything that was the animated form of DB.

Other than that, GT was just as protracted, random, hair-brained and half-assed as anything Mr. Toriyama cooked up in the comic. And considering that it's a boy's action series, I wouldn't want anything else.

[Eclipse]

It takes a lot to get me to sit down and watch DBGT, nevermind the "Step Into Tha Grand Tour, Mutha Fucka!!!" version.

Hahaha, well someone got 'wrapped up' in making One-Piece and GT dub-friendly. But at least they didn't insert terrible CGI neon signs.

Hey dude, that's nothing. I really don't like the opening lyrics to our GT Opening

Now the problem I have with GT is mostly the focus on Goku. I haven't watched all of it, and I haven't seen all of the plot inconsities, so I could care less about that. But the Shadow Dragons Saga....it's worse than even what some people would say about DBZ. At the end, it's only Goku that can do anything. Vegeta, Trunks, Goten, and Gohan can't do shit. And that's stupid. Where's Gotenks? Or that mystifying kick-ass Gohan? He's just a bumbling supporting character (I guess Toei has forgotten about the Cell era). Or the damn Prince of All Saiyans? They just sat there and Omega Shenron (don't know his original name) threw their asses to the floor in seconds! SECONDS!

Um... there's only onething I like about GT.

Super Saiyan 4.

Honestly. It's cool. Just believe me on this one.

And that's about it.

Main reason why I hate GT. They have to make SS4 sound like a Godly level, then just as usual, make ever villain after Bebi stronger than it. I was actually expecting a SSJ5 when I was watching GT.

[Rocketman]

I think he did, you know, when he KILLED CELL,

After whining about not wanting to fight, losing his head when he goes SSJ2 (allowing his dad to die), then completely giving up until Goku mentally bitchslaps him.

BOJACK,

Goku again has to hold his hand.

AND BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF SUPER BOO!

Who then absorbed Piccolo/Gotenks and made Gohan his bitch. And you'll notice, Buu gets stupider after he absorbs Gohan.

Gohan never really knew how to fight. His whole 'talent' was "RAWRGOHANSMASH".

[Eclipse]

Who then absorbed Piccolo/Gotenks and made Gohan his bitch. And you'll notice, Buu gets stupider after he absorbs Gohan.

Gohan never really knew how to fight. His whole 'talent' was "RAWRGOHANSMASH".

If Goku is referred to as 'Japan's Superman', then Gohan would be 'The Incredible Hulk'

-Vejita, who had made amends with Goku, was put back into conflict with him just for lack of a better use. Plus, his definitive look was turned into a bland, biker-trash motif.

Yeah, he's the Prince of Saiyans. He needs the 'biker' attitude. NOT

Gogeta was turned into a clown. He was not the malicious bastard that owned Janemba. F'real, what asshole shoots fake kamehamehas, to the strongest villain to surface the earth at that? Come on now, how are you the strongest being in the universe and loose a battle to someone who should be your bitch? I bet if that was Vegitto in there, there wouldn't have been a fight.

I hated the hair too. Red hair! >.<

[Majin Cell]

One big problem i had with GT is how invincible it made Gokus Base form seem. When Goku kills Super 17 he's in his base form, yet just befor he kills Super 17 , he was on the ground saying how he barely had any energy left. How could he have the power to defeat Super 17 in his weaked Base Kid form, when he wasn't strong enough to beat him in SSJ4 ? Then, later, when Goku is fighting Omega Shenron, he defeats him in Base Kid form when his SSJ4 form wasn't strong enough to take him down. Omega Shenron made a fool out of Goku in SSJ4 without even trying, yet his attacks don't effect Base Kid Goku even when he's really putting power into his attacks.

[Domon]

When Goku kills Super 17 he's in his base form, yet just befor he kills Super 17 , he was on the ground saying how he barely had any energy left. How could he have the power to defeat Super 17 in his weaked Base Kid form, when he wasn't strong enough to beat him in SSJ4 ? Then, later, when Goku is fighting Omega Shenron, he defeats him in Base Kid form when his SSJ4 form wasn't strong enough to take him down. Omega Shenron made a fool out of Goku in SSJ4 without even trying, yet his attacks don't effect Base Kid Goku even when he's really putting power into his attacks.

It's simple, Goku tapped into the power of plot contrivance.

Yeah, the series' writting has odd moments like those, but I didn't let things like that bother me much.

[Zackarotto]

And then there's the fact that SSJ3 consumed so much power that it would distort time, and with it's power one could tear space apart and leave the dimension they are in. Or whatever.

My SSJ4 would happen at the very end of GT. Goku would need this kind of freak power to beat some freak villain, and would regret it immediately when the universe implodes into him to sustain his ki. Everybody dies including him.

I guess I'd also make him look a lot cooler.

[JAKEMAN]

I found the Italian version of the GT opening, I think it is kind of catchy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TalAIDdY ... nball%20gt

A little note it has a scene were a oozaru grabs SS4 Goku I don't know what episode it is from could someone tell me?

[Xyex]

I honestly can't comprehend this. I wish it went by fast for me, I really do, but it's more like watching paint dry.

Well, see, if it *had* been longer, and they'd spent more time on things, it could have easily been more interesting.