New Animation VS Old Animation

[kei17]

Both old & new animation have their beautiful moments, and their shitty moments.

And the new one has far fewer good moments.

I don't deny everything new just because it's new, though. I hate Yamamuro's current style, and it's almost everywhere now. I still love Nakatsuru's style in this digital era.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Both old & new animation have their beautiful moments, and their shitty moments.

And the new one has far fewer good moments.

To be fair, we don't have 508 episodes, 5 TV Specials, and 17 movies with new animation. We have way less stuff with new animation.

[kei17]

Both old & new animation have their beautiful moments, and their shitty moments.

And the new one has far fewer good moments.

To be fair, we don't have 508 episodes, 5 TV Specials, and 17 movies with new animation. We have way less stuff with new animation.

It's a matter of odds.

[JulieYBM]

Not counting the Opening animation for Ultimate Blast there have only been two good key animators to work in these new projects, either. Shida, Oonishi and Tate Naoki (Gotenks' Rouga-fuu-fuu-ken and Haikyuu-ken). Hamano Yuu'ichi is credited with working on the 2013 film, but damned if I can tell what he did.

Shimanuki Masahiro isn't doing much other then correcting animation for One Piece and Toriko these days, so it would be interesting to see him take over as character designer and Chief Animation Supervisor, although I think I'd prefer to see Tate Naoki take over. Tate would create very simple and easy to draw designs that could furiously well in motion.

[BlackCatScott]

I much prefer the older animation. I guess the only reason why they animate it the way they do now is because it's quicker/cheaper? Seems to be the way it is though and I think if we ever got a new series in future it would probably go with that animation style. I did like it in Battle of Gods though - but when you pause it quite often it can look, well, not great. Old school animation definitely kicks the most ass!

[Black_Anime_Fan]

The quality of both the Old and New animations depend on the one who's actually drawing it.

[JulieYBM]

I much prefer the older animation. I guess the only reason why they animate it the way they do now is because it's quicker/cheaper? Seems to be the way it is though and I think if we ever got a new series in future it would probably go with that animation style. I did like it in Battle of Gods though - but when you pause it quite often it can look, well, not great. Old school animation definitely kicks the most ass!

The characters look the way they do now is because Yamamuro Tadayoshi wants them to look this way and only a handful of the animators to work on the modern works have talent (Shida Naotoshi, Oonishi Ryou, Tate Naoki, et cetera). That's all there is to it.

You're not supposed to pause animation. That's why it's called animation.

[dbboxkaifan]

I for one really liked the animation on Ultimate Blast but the re-done shots in Kai sometimes look horribly done like someone done it on Paint with no effort whatsoever.

I'd like to say something about Battle of Gods but I can't 'cause I'm still waiting for FUNimation to get that damn thing out.

[Flame Dragon]

I much prefer the older animation. I guess the only reason why they animate it the way they do now is because it's quicker/cheaper? Seems to be the way it is though and I think if we ever got a new series in future it would probably go with that animation style. I did like it in Battle of Gods though - but when you pause it quite often it can look, well, not great. Old school animation definitely kicks the most ass!

The characters look the way they do now is because Yamamuro Tadayoshi wants them to look this way and only a handful of the animators to work on the modern works have talent (Shida Naotoshi, Oonishi Ryou, Tate Naoki, et cetera). That's all there is to it.

You're not supposed to pause animation. That's why it's called animation.

But a character is not supposed to look like a deformed monster when you pause the video either.

[kei17]

The quality of both the Old and New animations depend on the one who's actually drawing it.

Yes, but almost every DB-related animation in the 21st century is supervised by Yamamuro. If I recall correctly, the only exceptions are some TV commercials and One Piece x Toriko x Dragon Ball crossover special. So, "new animation" basically means Yamamuro's current style.

But a character is not supposed to look like a deformed monster when you pause the video either.

Any kind of methods except for heavy flashing can be justified as long as the results look good in motion.

[ErikB]

Really liking those corrections kei is doing. Interesting look at things.
I mentioned it before in the Unpopular Opinions before but I definitely agree that the modern Dragon Ball animation looks awful. I've hated these over-streamlined designs ever since Yo! Son Goku and his Friends Return. I think the most recent bit of Dragon Ball animation I actually liked was the Budokai 2 intro (and that's going pretty far back), and even that looks just a tad too mechanical for my tastes.

As for those infamous Naruto moments: Disney's Tarzan has a lot of ugly moments if you look at it one frame at a time, but in motion it looks great. Though the difference being that Tarzan had enough control of it that it isn't really noticeable to the viewer at all unless they're looking for it; the same can't really be said for those moments in Naruto. More often than not, it just comes across as though the characters are made of jell-o.

the re-done shots in Kai sometimes look horribly done like someone done it on Paint

Not that most of the re-done shots in Kai don't look bad (because they do), but I'm getting tired of this analogy because it's really not the case. The redrawn shots were very clearly done with vector-based software, which Paint is not; Paint didn't even have an anti-aliased brush tool until Windows 7.

This looks like it was horribly done on Paint (because it was):

Spoiler:

[Duo]

I love those corrected shots from Ultimate Tenka'ichi, Kei17. I never did like those updates pieces of footage and you gave good description and examples as to why.

[JulieYBM]

But a character is not supposed to look like a deformed monster when you pause the video either.

It is when it's an intentionally abstract cut of animation to visually display the deformity of the character's logic. That screen cap is from a three second long cut from a six-plus minute segment where the key animation and in-between animation is done entirely by one person. It is the only three seconds of the entire episode too be drawn in such a manner.

[Flame Dragon]

But a character is not supposed to look like a deformed monster when you pause the video either.

It is when it's an intentionally abstract cut of animation to visually display the deformity of the character's logic. That screen cap is from a three second long cut from a six-plus minute segment where the key animation and in-between animation is done entirely by one person. It is the only three seconds of the entire episode too be drawn in such a manner.

It's too jarring, animation is good when you don't notice the bad shots in motion, but when you can see them clearly even in motion, it sucks.
Maybe the animation might be amazing, but who cares if the individual frames look like a monstruosity.

[bkev]

Wow, Kei's detailed examples and corrections really add to this discussion. I for one never liked digital shading/coloring/etc., but that's personal preference. Clearly, there's more than that "shiny" look wrong with these newer drawings.

[JulieYBM]

It's too jarring, animation is good when you don't notice the bad shots in motion, but when you can see them clearly even in motion, it sucks.
Maybe the animation might be amazing, but who cares if the individual frames look like a monstruosity.

The intentionally ugly drawings look ugly. I'm not seeing the issue here.

[RocktheDragon]

It's too jarring, animation is good when you don't notice the bad shots in motion, but when you can see them clearly even in motion, it sucks.
Maybe the animation might be amazing, but who cares if the individual frames look like a monstruosity.

The intentionally ugly drawings look ugly. I'm not seeing the issue here.

Yeah I have to agree with Jacob on this one. We should always judge a drawing's execution by its intent: what is trying to be communicated in that instance? The gif clearly demonstrates that the point of that animation is to evoke an abstract kind of drawing. Whether you think that abstraction is "ugly" or "deformed" is beside the point I think.

[Codarik]

"Old" hand drawn animation is more fluent and lively. "New" computer animation is too stiff and robotic. And this just doesn't apply only to Dragon Ball but cartoon/anime series in general.

Spoiler:

I used to want Kai to be reanimated but seeing the example I and what others have posted here, I now prefer the traditional animation.

[ErikB]

Digital animation isn't inherently more or less fluid than cel animation, it's just up to how the animators use it.
The Simpsons in general has been an example of them going way too far with the extra conveniences of digital and ultimately losing the expressiveness of the animation. But that shot from the HD opening sort of has examples of both. Marge turning her head, yes, is a lot more stiff and mechanical (though the old is also much too floaty, in my opinion). But Maggie coming out of the bag has some nice timing and a pleasant pop to it. It could have used another in-between or 2 though.
However, when Maggie and the Unibrow Baby shake their fist at each other, it's just bad; two drawings cycled at a low-framerate completely inconsistent with the rest of the animation.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, the problem isn't the digital animation. American cartoons have shied away from expressiveness since the original opening to The Simpsons was first created. There's a fear that anything that isn't drawn 'realistically' will be considered immature or poorly animated. Dragon Ball simply has not had particularly talented directors in recent years. Nagamine Tatsuya's directing for the Dragon Ball: Ultimate Blast Opening was the closest we've had to good directing that allowed looseness to its animation. Hosoda's directing for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods is very rigid. He and Yamamuro Tadayoshi were too focused on creating something that was always on model. There was also a lack of talented animators for the film, but under Yamamuro even talented animators weren't allowed to experiment too much with their drawings.

Here's a collection of animation from Naruto Shippuuden, a series created during the digital era. Notice how the talents of the animators are on full display, no matter the technology. Toei Animation's Yes! PreCure 5 GoGo episode #4 was also produced during the digital age, yet the animation has no problem being terrifically timed and passionately drawn thanks to the openness of Episode Director Ootsuka Takashi and Key Animator Tanaka Hironori.