When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)

[Hugo Boss]

Which looked just like the after-image technique used in Dragonball.

A better version of it, actually. Dabra used magic, not just speed.

[TheGmGoken]

Here's my viewpoint of it. Gohan would had made MORE sense as a SSJ2 but he was a SSJ. I don't know why but he was. He was drawn as such. He has no sparks. Any other time a SSj2 has appeared they had sparks. What makes this time any different from the rest? He's a SSJ. No sparks. No SSj2. It's not like Vegetto who had so much power he had some sparks. Gohan had ZERO. He's not a SSj2. He's a SSJ. It made sense for Goku to be fighting Freeza with Kaioken but before King Kai told us, all we know is that "Goku still has the Kaioken" and that Goku is in regular form.

[RandomGuy96]

Seems like the most obvious explanation for the visuals to me.

So, in other words, it's never stated or implied? Good to know.

No, that's when he announces that he will transform, but he seems to decide doing so is unavoidable a page or two before that. Right before he starts exuding an aura, evidently in preparation to transform.

He doesn't seem to actually decide to do it. It seems like there he's realizing he has no choice, and spends the next few panels thinking some more and considering it. It certainly doesn't seem like he plans on going SS2 just to show off until he actually announces he's going to do so.

Because the focus is on Gohan's skill, not his power. Since Dabra's easily weaker than Super Saiyan Gohan, then Gohan's power isn't an issue. Gohan shouldn't NEED to go Super Saiyan 2 to beat him, and that he could easily beat him if he did so goes without saying.

No, Goku told Gohan to get a rage boost to fight Dabra, because that would make him stronger than anyone. Why would he need to tell Gohan that if his regular Super Saiyan is apparently far ahead of Dabra? He has no problem with Gohan just crushing Dabra effortlessly with overwhelming strength. Yet he tells Gohan to get mad and try to draw out his power like when killing Cell rather than just saying "This guy sucks, just turn SS2 like I saw you do ten minutes ago"? And Gohan doesn't say "actually, I don't need to get mad dad, Dabra's a chump, just give me a few seconds... (turns SS2 and one-shots Dabra) okay, let's go home". No one, not Goku, Gohan, Kaioshin, or Vegeta, just considers getting Gohan to go SS2 by giving him a few seconds even when everything is at stake. It all comes down to the rage boost.

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

Goku says that Dabra is stronger than he thought because he possessed magical abilities. Goku says this in response to Dabra using some magical illusion technique to fool Gohan and take him by surprise with an energy blast.

Nope. The two statements aren't necessarily related. He says that Dabra has magic. End sentence. Start new sentence. He says Dabra is way stronger than he thought. One is not stronger just on part of being more skilled (in this case, with his illusions/materialization/fire breath). "Stronger" is used when someone is actually "stronger". He also specifically references a previous estimate for him ("stronger than I THOUGHT"), and said estimate was "about as strong as Cell".

Heck, in the very next sentence, Vegeta uses the same wording when he said that Gohan "was stronger as a brat". Does that somehow mean Gohan wasn't actually stronger when he was a kid? Of course not, he outright said he was stronger as a kid earlier at the tournament.

[dprez]

I see Gohan become super saiyan 2 once during the entire Buu arc and it's at the tournament for Kibito. Gohan isn't like Vegeta and Goku and couldn't use the form so easily. He appears to me to be super saiyan (1) afterwords. Goku tells Gohan to use full power after giving him a senzu bean, this seams to mean ssj2. He had just struggled against Dabra and got Vegeta angry at how long it was taking, saying Gohan should be able to win if he was stronger like he was when he was a kid. Vegeta calls it pathetic but it's true. Gohan didn't train at all and couldn't control the form. It was plain to me on my first read through the manga before I even knew about the debate. After Cell, poor Gohan probably never went ssj2 again until he was forced to against Kibito.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

@Son_Gohan, I know it sounds like I am contradicting myself, but I am not. Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan Full Power are different forms, but also the same form at the same time. SS is the old version of SS, while SSFP is the new version of SS.

And what's your point with the image of Vegeta & Trunks?

[miguelnuva1]

When Goku says be like you where with Cell that sounds like be a ssj2 since that's when he fought Cell.

[Hugo Boss]

In short, Daizenshuu 2's [High School Era SS2 Gohan] missing "+" is the source of the problem inside Daizenshuu, because Daizenshuu 7 mentions SS2 Gohan [against Dabra]. While SS Gohan's aura is the source of the problem inside manga, because there are instances suggesting otherwise.

After reading all that stuff, I can't complain on anyone thinking Gohan is a SS or a SS2. Both make a lot sense.

Actually, I would apreciate an interview pointing this subject.

[Kakarot88]

No, according to Herms he says stronger. Way stronger.

So, to recap, Goku guesses that he's about as strong as Cell, says his guess was off and Dabra's actually way stronger than he thought, and then a guidebook comes and says that Dabra and Cell have the same battle power, then another guidebook comes along and says the same.

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!"

Goku says that Dabra is stronger than he thought because he possessed magical abilities. Goku says this in response to Dabra using some magical illusion technique to fool Gohan and take him by surprise with an energy blast.

"magical illusion technique"? The use of Zanzou Majutsu or "Afterimage Sorcery" in no way means Goku is not confirming that Dabra is stronger than his initial estimate? He literally says "stronger than I thought, aint't he." RandomGuy96 brings up a great an all too easily overlooked point: Goku confirms that Dabra is stronger than his initial estimate of Cell.

[sekzee]

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P4.4-6
Goku: “Ah! Wait, Gohan. I have 2 more senzu; you should eat 1. You used up a lot of stamina earlier. [ ] Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

In all fairness, it almost does feel like Gohan's previous transformation at the tournament was forgotten about purposely for plot reasons. If Gohan defeated Dabura as easily as he could have, whether it was through SSJ2 or a rage boost on top of that, Buu would not have been released. Gohan was AT's plot device to ensure Buu was released since he was weaker, rusty, and apparently couldn't transform at will (even though previously he did).

[Kakarot88]

Well then sense the Daizenshuu 7 encyclopedia was released subsequent to the Story guide, that clears up any possible confusion said implication could potentially make!

It... it really doesn't... The volume ordering really doesn't prove anything when it comes to clashing information...

But you seem pretty soundly convinced already no matter what anyone says, so... I guess I'll just quit while I'm ahead here and leave my posts for others to see.

Honestly, no, it's not that I can't be persuaded. I just find your reasoning to be suspect.

I find it odd that you use the absence of evidence (a +) as proof of evidence to try to support your opinion that Gohan was only at SS1 against Dabra in order to refute Daizenshuu 7's express statement, rather that Daizenshuu 7 itself. I like full reasoned debate so here, let me help you make a reasoned argument, because that + argument is a distinction without a difference. In Daizenshuu 7 the definition of Dabra's sword says Dabra fights Super Saiyan Gohan not Super Saiyan who has Surpassed Super Saiyan Gohan or SS2 Gohan:

• Barbarian Sword
  
  First Appears Chapter 455
  Category Battle Item
  Explanation A sword which Dabra produced through magic. He used it against Super Saiyan Gohan.
  Characteristics The blade edge is a type that heightens speed by stressing air resistance. Overall it's got a flashy design, but is sharp and seems to cut well.

That whole + thing is nonsensical because there is no contradiction unless you make one.

• You can have only one "first appearance" hence why there is only one numbered volume: the number indicates when it first appeared, with a second number indicating when it stopped or a '+' indicating that it continued indefinitely. The only way for there to be a contradiction is if you take silence (as in no end given and no +) to mean that it stopped.
  Making a distinction where there is no need to do so, is error in statutory interpretation so it makes no sense to do it here with a guide book. The book is pretty plain:
  • A body style or age is given beginning and ending volume numbers.
    A form is given a first appearance listing.
    If the form goes forward it gets a +
    If a form is given a different depiction than it's first appearance then that difference is also listed.
  This explains why SS2 is given a + sign and and the other styles or ages of Gohan are given start and end volumes.
  It also explains why a first appearance is only given one number, because there can only be one first appearance.
  It also explains why Ultimate Gohan is only given one number and no plus (because you can only have one first appearance).

To me it makes more sense that Gohan is fighting Dabra at SS 2 because

• [1] Goku said Dabra is probably about as strong as Cell[1]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
  Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
  Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
  Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
  Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

  [2] And then Goku later says that Dabra is stronger than he first thought [2]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
  Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
  Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
  [3] and when Gohan fights Dabura, Gohan is weaker than when he fought against Cell.[3]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
  Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
  Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”
  Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…”

  Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
  Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
  Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
  Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
  Goku: “He really did slack off!”

  Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
  Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
  Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

  Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P3.1-2
  Context: as Gohan remembers Goku’s advice to get angry
  Gohan: “I-I am angry…! I’m angry, but…[it’s not] like it was ba-back then…”

  [4] and more powerful SS1 young Gohan could barely contend and definitely could not defeat perfect Cell without becoming SS2.[4]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P9.1-2
  Context: as Cell has Gohan in a bear hug
  Cell: “Well, how's this? It hurts, right? Get angry! You don’t want to die like this, do you? Well, what’s the matter? What are you hesitating for!? Your bones will break. There’s no way you could hate fighting this much.”
  ...
  Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P12.1
  Piccolo: “Don’t forget…! Even if his power is #1, he’s still a kid…!”
  Piccolo then says he's going to save Gohan. Goku then yells to Kuririn for a senzu, he's about to go save his dieing son.
  
  ...
  then while everyone is getting beat up on the cliff by the Cell Juniors, Gohan just stares in bewilderment and thinks to himself how if he really does have hidden power he needs it now. SS1 Gohan says to himself that he wants to beat Cell but he does not know how.

  See also:

  Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P2.3-4
  Context: after Gohan powers up
  Vegeta: “That brat…How did he get such a gigantic battle power?…This is impossible…!”
  Cell: “Looks like what Son Goku said wasn’t a complete bluff…But it seems he overstated things a little when he said you could defeat me…”

  Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P6.4
  Context: after fighting Gohan a little
  Cell: “You’re a quick little brat…! How about I go all-out, in speed at least?”

  Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P15.4, P16.1
  Cell: “I understand perfectly well that you don’t like fighting …But I don’t really know what you mean when you say that you don’t want to kill me. You couldn’t kill me in a hundred years. Well, am I wrong?”
  
  Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P16.2-3
  Gohan: “I-I’m gradually starting to understand…What father means when he says I’m the only one who can defeat Cell…It seems that since long ago, whenever my anger flares up, I subconsciously begin fighting madly with outrageous power…So…father must be calculating on that…”

  [5]Keep in mind Cell was not even at his full power, SS1 Gohan gets trashed by non full power perfect Cell. Non full power perfect Cell was crushing the life out of SS1 Son Gohan. Cell only goes full power after Gohan turns SS2.[5]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 409 (DBZ 215), P3.5
  Context: after Gohan says he can beat Cell
  Cell: “Well then, I’ll show you…! My fearsome true power…!"

  Chapter: 409 (DBZ 215), P8.2-4
  Context: after Cell powers up
  Goku: “S-so we finally get to see Cell fight at full power”
  Kuririn: “This ki is so astounding, it’s like the entire Earth is shaking.”
  Gohan: “What’s the big deal?”

  [6] And against Dabra, a being who is stated as being as strong as Cell and then as being stronger than that first estimate weaker SS1 Boo arc Gohan does better than his stronger SS1 Cell arc younger self did against a being at least as powerful, Cell, as an SS1 since daddy doesn't need to jump in and save Gohan like he was going to against Cell[6]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P10.5-6
  Context: as Gohan fights Dabra
  Vegeta: “Damn it…this is pissing me off! Alright, I’ll finish this!”
  Goku: “Don’t, Vegeta! Let [Gohan] do it. It ain’t like he’s completely losing.”

  versus
  
  Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P9.1-2
  Context: as Cell has Gohan in a bear hug
  Cell: “Well, how's this? It hurts, right? Get angry! You don’t want to die like this, do you? Well, what’s the matter? What are you hesitating for!? Your bones will break. There’s no way you could hate fighting this much.”
  ...
  Chapter: 405 (DBZ 211), P12.1
  Piccolo: “Don’t forget…! Even if his power is #1, he’s still a kid…!”
  Piccolo then says he's going to save Gohan. Goku then yells to Kuririn for a senzu, because he's about to go save his dieing son.
  
  ...
  then while everyone is getting beat up on the cliff by the Cell Juniors, Gohan just stares in bewilderment and thinks to himself how if he really does have hidden power he needs it now. SS1 Gohan says to himself that he wants to beat Cell but he does not know how.[/quote]
  [7] And Dabra is NOT going easy on Gohan, to get Majin Boo the energy he needs Dabra needed to inflict damage.[7]
  Spoiler:

  Chapter: 451 (DBZ 257), P12.1-2
  Context: Babidi is concerned now that Goku and co. have defeated even Yakon.
  Dabra: “…Alright then, I know what to do…I shall take away your anxiety, Lord Babidi…I shall personally go to Stage 3. Then in the blink of an eye I shall fill Majin Boo’s ball with their energy, you’ll see.

In sum, Kaboom, you are essentially saying that weaker SS1 older Gohan can contend with a being that his stronger younger battle ready SS1 self was getting squeezed to death against and had to go SS2 to defeat.

• To support your proposition:
  • you first refute an express contradiction in a guidebook which says Gohan was fighting at SS2 against Dabra, with the fact another guidebook does not have a + for a variation on the first appearances of form's variation, a distinction only made by reading into silence.
    You never address the in-universe power contradiction
    And then as proof claim that the design of ki aura is the most distinguishing factor as to forms rather than hair styles.
  Because your reasoning is based on a rationalizaton that goes against the in-universe power discussion, and an ad hoc analysis of a missing + sign to refute a guide book's affirmative contradiction, coupled with you giving heightened importance to ki aura design as completely trumping hair design I disagree with you.
  
  However, I am not dug in and I can be persuaded, and have even provided you information to help you.
  • In your favor is
    • fairly consistent ki aura,
      the hair design for Gohan is somewhat ambiguous,
      and now a logical way to overcome a guidebook that expressly contradicts your opinion, because what I provided you above provides an inferential claim that Gohan was only a Super Saiyan when the weapon was used which was right before the fight ended.
  • Against your argument is
    • the power discrepancy as outlined above
      • (roughly stated: Younger SS1 Gohan is stronger than Boo arc SS1 Gohan. Dabura is at least as strong if not stronger than Cell. Dabra is not holding back against Gohan. SS1 Gohan while his friends were dying could not figure out how to defeat Cell and was nearly crushed to death. Cell was not using his full power against SS1 Gohan, he was holding back.
        • Therefore, if Gohan was only SS1 against Dabra then that means weaker SS1 Boo Arc Gohan can contend with a being as powerful as one that his trained battle ready stronger SS1 younger self was being crushed to death against when that being was holding back, unlike Dabra who expressly says he will try and end the fight in an instant)
      The only legitimate arguement you can make of Daizenshuu 7 being contradicted is that the use of "Super Saiyan Gohan" rather than SS2 when describing that ending portion of the fight by inference means SS2 was intentionally omitted. Again, reading into ambiguity but less ridiculous than the + idea,
      The general way the series ups the ante,
      Gohan's hair in those panels clearly looks SS2, it has the distinguishing elongated solitary bang and longer up top hair
    I think your best argument to overcome the express contradiction is one I just gave you, but your biggest hurtle is the in universe battle power discrepancy and general way the series ups the ante per arc.

With what I just gave you I do not believe there is any evidence left that has not been discussed, from here it is a policy call on your part whether you agree one way or the other.


Sorry, for the delay Kaboom, I hadn't had a chance to adequately respond sooner.

[Kaboom]

Cool, I didn't know about that bit for Dabra's sword. So the guidebooks are even less in support of the incorrect SSJ2 angle then. Daizenshuu #7 doesn't just disagree with #2, it even disagrees with itself.

I don't see a need to respond to anything else. You're making the same big assumptions about Dabra's power as anyone else (that of "Goku HAD to mean Cell at his full power"), and I'm tired of explaining why that's faulty. I also still can't believe anything thinks Gohan's hair is worth even pointing out.

I don't need to debate or decide anything. My eyes and brain are on good enough terms with each other to tell that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1 just by looking, what with the clear-as-day aura differences pretty much walking up and smacking you in the face. With that particular fact firmly established, it's just a matter of figuring out how the rest of the plot works with it. And it works fine.

[Kakarot88]

Cool, I didn't know about that bit for Dabra's sword. So the guidebooks can be completely discarded on the topic then. Daizenshuu #7 doesn't just disagree with #2, it even disagrees with itself.

I don't see a need to respond to anything else. You're making the same big assumptions about Dabra's power as anyone else (that of "Goku HAD to mean Cell at his full power"), and I'm tired of explaining why that's faulty. I also still can't believe anything thinks Gohan's hair is worth even pointing out.

I don't need to debate or decide anything. My eyes and brain are on good enough terms with each other to tell that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1 just by looking. With that particular fact firmly established, it's just a matter of figuring out how the rest of the plot works with it. And it works fine.

I get it, Gohan looks SS1 to you so he is.

Gohan looks SS2 to me with a weaker Ki, so he is.

But Did you read anything I wrote? This is an in-universe debate. That means you gotta have in-universe rationalizations.
Please, hear me out and just read my condensed point without all the excerpted proof:

• Younger SS1 Gohan is stronger than Boo arc SS1 Gohan.
  Dabra is stated to be at least as strong as Cell, and later stated to be stronger than that estimate.
  Dabra is not holding back against Gohan.
  SS1 Gohan in the Cell arc was nearly crushed to death by Cell while Cell was not using his full power against SS1 Gohan, he was holding back.
  SS1 young Gohan sees his friends were dying and could not figure out how to defeat Cell

Therefore, if Gohan was only SS1 against Dabra then that means weaker SS1 Boo Arc Gohan can contend with a being as powerful if not more than one in which his trained battle ready stronger SS1 younger self was being crushed to death against when that being was holding back, unlike Dabra who expressly says he will try and end the fight in an instant)

Your whole "in-universe arg" now is this: "he's an SS1 because that's what it looks like to me and even though that would create a power discrepancy I am right if I assume Goku is making a Cell comparison that makes Cell weaker than when SS1 Gohan fought him."

Riiiiiiiiiiiight, because when Goku thinks about opponents he thinks of them at their weakest because he hates fighting strong people
And no it still works more so if Goku means Cell when he was not at full power and crushing SS1 Gohan because again NON FULL POWER Cell was CRUSHING SS1 GOHAN TO DEATH...oh but wait my B Goku probably meant form 1 or 2 of Cell because that's how Goku remembers him best when he wasn't dying of a heart virus and writhing in pain and only briefly met form 2 Cell when he was using Shunkan ido to save his friends.
Yeah I guess first impressions are important, nice meeting you. Sorry for wasting both our time.

[Kaboom]

I did read what you wrote. The root of your problem is assuming that Dabra is close to Cell's full power, or even equal to the power he used against Gohan, when he doesn't have to be. You're taking something vague and trying to make it something specific. You're putting words in Goku's mouth.

I'm not making any argument, because there's nothing to argue. Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1. I can tell just from looking. I don't need to prove or argue for anything because the manga already makes it clear.

Sarcastic put-downs of someone's stance don't help you, either.

[VegettoEX]

I don't need to prove or argue for anything because the manga already makes it clear.

I'd argue that this is a rather dismissive post itself.

[Kaboom]

It's just honesty. Perhaps a bit on the brusque side, but still just honesty nonetheless.

[kuartus4]

Goku says that Dabra is stronger than he thought because he possessed magical abilities. Goku says this in response to Dabra using some magical illusion technique to fool Gohan and take him by surprise with an energy blast.

Nope. The two statements aren't necessarily related. He says that Dabra has magic. End sentence. Start new sentence. He says Dabra is way stronger than he thought. One is not stronger just on part of being more skilled (in this case, with his illusions/materialization/fire breath). "Stronger" is used when someone is actually "stronger". He also specifically references a previous estimate for him ("stronger than I THOUGHT"), and said estimate was "about as strong as Cell".

I gotta say, your reading of that quote seems less natural to me. It seems more likely to me that the two sentences are related. I mean, they are right next to each other. But to each his own I suppose.

[Kakarot88]

I'm not making any argument, because there's nothing to argue. Gohan was a Super Saiyan 1. I can tell just from looking. I don't need to prove or argue for anything because the manga already makes it clear. Sarcastic put-downs of someone's stance don't help you, either.

• • I apologize for being rude, but to be fair are you without fault in being just a bit combative, as well?
    I think we both have room for improvement, but you're right being sarcastic isn't helpful, but neither is being passive aggressive.
    I can man up and apologize for my behavior but what about your statements? "because the manga makes it clear." Yeah, it does, it just as clearly to me shows Gohan is fighting as an SS2 despite him not having the bad ass SS2 bolts, because he was not pissed off like he was when he transformed a few chapters back at the tournament.
    Kind of like how in the Cell fight when his pa dies, he was still an SS2 but had no ki aura.
    
    And despite, your assertion, by stating what you think in that manner you are making an argument.

The root of your problem is assuming that Dabra is close to Cell's full power, or even equal to the power he used against Gohan, when he doesn't have to be. You're taking something vague and trying to make it something specific. You're putting words in Goku's mouth.

• How can you say I am doing that when:
  
  • Goku says Dabra is probably about as strong as Cell:

    Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
    Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo

    • Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. ...
      Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

  And then Goku later says that Dabra is stronger than he first thought

  • Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
    Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
    Goku: “Magic, huh? He’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”

[/list][/quote]


This is the way I see it

Power in Cell arc
Goku SS1 < SS1 Cell arc Gohan / Perfect Cell < Full Power Perfect Cell (not recover from explosion Super Perfect Cell) < SS2 Cell arc Gohan
Agreed because non full power perfect Cell was crushing SS 1 Gohan to death and SS1 Gohan could not figure out how to defeat him?[/list][/list][/list]

Power in Boo arc
Boo Arc SS1 Gohan < SS1 Cell Arc Gohan < Full Power Perfect Cell (not recover from explosion Super Perfect Cell)
Agreed bc SS1 Boo Arc Gohan is weaker than SS1 Cell arc Gohan?[/list][/list]

Gohan went SS2 at the Tenkaichi Budokai agrreed?[/list]


Therefore, can you honestly sit here and say

• in a fight to the death,
  where if Gohan takes damage it goes to Boo but if Dabra takes damages then it does not go to Boo,
  and Gohan wants to prevent Boo's resurrection,
  Gohan was decidedly holding back from going SS2 (or couldn't even though he did a few chapters earlier)
  even though he has said he that he hates fighting, and seemed only to enjoy it as a sadistic SS2,
  but that here and now Gohan decided to
  hold back,
  take damage which would resurrect boo,
  and enjoy the fight?

[/list]
To me SS1 Gohan being an SS1 makes less sense than Gohan being at SS2 and having a weaker Ki, because he was weaker.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Kakarot88, Cell was crushing Gohan to death because Gohan refused to fight. In fact, since Goku could fight Cell evenly, and since Gohan is stronger than Goku, Gohan should be stronger than suppressed Cell.

Also, if SS2 Gohan has lost the sparks because he got weaker, why does he have them against Kibito?


And Kaboom, not that I disagree about the auras, but one could argue that Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 ever since Videl got beaten, because Gohan's hairstyle is the same as his SS2 hairstyle, and the same with the hairstyle he has in the rest of the series.

[RandomGuy96]

SS Gohan was stronger than suppressed Cell. By a lot. That was shown. SS Buu arc Gohan is also stronger than suppressed Cell, as stated in the guidebooks. But he was weaker than FP Cell, so the point would still stand.

Nice to see that Kaboom still has a pleasant and civilized attitude about this subject, and doesn't drag down the whole conversation by acting rude and dismissive.

[miguelnuva1]

Cell was beating Gohan because Gohan couldn't fight back and it was also said Dabura couldn't inflict damage on Gohan enough to wake Buu.