New Animation VS Old Animation

[Attitudefan]

Can you guys post an example of Yamamuro's work on the original series or artwork from the 80's and 90's? I really want to see something he drew and compare.

[JulieYBM]

I don't think Yamamuro Tadayoshi has done much key animation in recent years. The problem is his character models and the corrections he makes to the animators' work.

[dbboxkaifan]

Not that most of the re-done shots in Kai don't look bad (because they do), but I'm getting tired of this analogy because it's really not the case. The redrawn shots were very clearly done with vector-based software, which Paint is not; Paint didn't even have an anti-aliased brush tool until Windows 7.

This looks like it was horribly done on Paint (because it was):

Spoiler:

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... ssion#wrap

It's because of animation like this that Kai gets the reputation of looking like something done in Paint.

[Blade]

Not that most of the re-done shots in Kai don't look bad (because they do), but I'm getting tired of this analogy because it's really not the case. The redrawn shots were very clearly done with vector-based software, which Paint is not; Paint didn't even have an anti-aliased brush tool until Windows 7.

This looks like it was horribly done on Paint (because it was):

Spoiler:

Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... ssion#wrap

It's because of animation like this that Kai gets the reputation of looking like something done in Paint.

I get why they didn't go for new style animation as not to stand out from the original frames, but good God did they cut corners...

[JulieYBM]

Those drawings are simply the original Dragon Ball Z frames traced over. This is to say nothing of the screen captures taken being in-betweens.

[bkev]

Still, I think the point is valid in some ways. Sure, those are in-betweens, but there's something odd - for lack of a better term - about the shading (likely due to the, as you said, tracing.) At least, that's how it looks to me. Can anyone pull out the corresponding shots from Z for comparison?

[ErikB]

Not that most of the re-done shots in Kai don't look bad (because they do), but I'm getting tired of this analogy because it's really not the case. The redrawn shots were very clearly done with vector-based software, which Paint is not; Paint didn't even have an anti-aliased brush tool until Windows 7.

This looks like it was horribly done on Paint (because it was):

Spoiler:

*snip*
Source: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... ssion#wrap

It's because of animation like this that Kai gets the reputation of looking like something done in Paint.

I get that most of the redrawn shots look bad. They do. They really really do. They literally do not look like MS Paint though. That's simply not what drawings done in MS Paint look like.

[JulieYBM]

Besides, what's wrong with creating animation on Paint so long as it moves good?

[Zestanor]

[Metalwario64]

The thing that bothers me about Kai's redrawn shots is the colors. I mean, why are Goku's eyes a different shade of white than Vegeta's armor in the redrawn shot? In the original they were the same color.

Plus, in those shots, the skin tones, backgrounds and blue colors look good, but then Goku's gi is a very bright and saturated orange, and the white on Vegeta's armor is way too bright of a white. This little problems make the image look more unnatural.

Other than that, I kinda like Kai's redrawn shots, and they don't all have those problems. It used to bother me that it doesn't look like film, but now that's not a big deal to me, since they're still basically the same animation, with a few hiccups that bring them down a notch. It just gives me even more reason to hate modern Dragon Ball animation, and that I wish they'd stick to the original character models and style (especially in the shading).

[mAcChaos]

I hate the new art style.

It's not that CG necessarily is worse, but everyone just uses it that way because it's cheaper. So everything is Family Guy cut and paste style animation instead of the lovingly hand crafted art we used to get.

[JulieYBM]

I hate the new art style.

It's not that CG necessarily is worse, but everyone just uses it that way because it's cheaper. So everything is Family Guy cut and paste style animation instead of the lovingly hand crafted art we used to get.

What are you talking about? Which specific instances of CG are you talking about?

[mAcChaos]

I hate the new art style.

It's not that CG necessarily is worse, but everyone just uses it that way because it's cheaper. So everything is Family Guy cut and paste style animation instead of the lovingly hand crafted art we used to get.

What are you talking about? Which specific instances of CG are you talking about?

I meant the general trend in animation, like that Simpsons gif, or the Cell pic in OP.

[JulieYBM]

I hate the new art style.

It's not that CG necessarily is worse, but everyone just uses it that way because it's cheaper. So everything is Family Guy cut and paste style animation instead of the lovingly hand crafted art we used to get.

What are you talking about? Which specific instances of CG are you talking about?

I meant the general trend in animation, like that Simpsons gif, or the Cell pic in OP.

Those are not computer generated. They are hand-drawn animation.

[mAcChaos]

What do you mean by hand drawn?

[KentalSSJ6]

What do you mean by hand drawn?

Someone drew every frame of that animation by hand.

[mAcChaos]

But was it done using a computer?

I was imprecise in my last post. What I meant was that the first Cell pic in the OP looks like it was painted. It has a natural looking texture. The second one looks too clean and like it was just churned out in Photoshop or something. There's a distinct look between these that you can pick up when looking at various clips.

[JulieYBM]

What do you mean by hand drawn?

I mean the key animators and in-between animators drew the key animation and in-between drawings with his hands and pencils, just like they have for the last four-plus decades. Here is a gif that strings together the key animation from a cut of Hagane no Renkinjutsushi: Fullmetal Alchemist (2009-2011). Notice how it's drawn on paper.



Here is a gif from Pocket Monster: Diamond & Pearl episode #189. The key animation is provided by Iwane Masa'aki of Studio Cockpit (Iwane was a key animator on many Dragon Ball Z episodes). Everything in this gif is hand-drawn, even the animated backgrounds.

For further information on the process of Japanese animation, please read this nifty article on Anipages.

But was it done using a computer?

I was imprecise in my last post. What I meant was that the first Cell pic in the OP looks like it was painted. It has a natural looking texture. The second one looks too clean and like it was just churned out in Photoshop or something. There's a distinct look between these that you can pick up when looking at various clips.

The coloring is done on computers. Almost nobody uses physical resources past the key animation and in-between animation stages of production anymore. That doesn't have anything to do with the problems in modern Dragon Ball animation, however. The problem is with the animation supervisor and the majority of the key animators not being particularly talented. Hell, even most of animators who worked on Dragon Ball in the 1980s and 1990s were not talented.

Even key animators who use their computers and tablets to draw still do so by hand. Yamashita Shingo, Kutsuna Ken'ichi, Oda Gosei, and BahiJD are all creating wonderful works of animation using flash. Much of Naruto Shippuuden episode #167 was drawn in flash. Much of Tetsuwan Birdy: Decode was also drawn using flash.

Folks, I don't want to be the bad guy here, but throwing 'digital technology' and 'computers' under the bus is a recurring theme in these threads. I've posted examples of modern animation from numerous other animated works. Large quantities of great animation is currently being created for commercial works much more frequently than ever before thanks to this era of talent and digital advancement. I'm not singling anyone out. I would be more than happy to answer whatever questions I can so we can continue to evolve these threads to higher planes of discussion for all of us.

[kei17]

What do you mean by hand drawn?

I mean the key animators and in-between animators drew the key animation and in-between drawings with his hands and pencils, just like they have for the last four-plus decades.

However, in most cases, those drawings are automatically re-traced with computer software, so strictly speaking, what you see on TV is actually "computer generated".

[JulieYBM]

What do you mean by hand drawn?

I mean the key animators and in-between animators drew the key animation and in-between drawings with his hands and pencils, just like they have for the last four-plus decades.

However, in most cases, those drawings are automatically re-traced with computer software, so strictly speaking, what you see on TV is actually "computer generated".

Is this any different then old cel animation where the lines are re-traced by inkers, though?