Gohan Out of Character at Cell Games? Let's end this debate.

[ABED]

So it's completely in character for him to be I wanna help, I wanna help, I wanna fight, I wanna fight, and then when it comes time, "Fighting is pointless". I get being overwhelmed and confused, but that wasn't what happened.

[penguintruth]

Wanting to help and liking to fight are different things.

I can't believe I actually have to explain this.

[mAcChaos]

So it's completely in character for him to be I wanna help, I wanna help, I wanna fight, I wanna fight, and then when it comes time, "Fighting is pointless". I get being overwhelmed and confused, but that wasn't what happened.

Are you against him trying to talk Cell out of fighting, or not hurling himself at him in desperation later?

If it's the latter, it's not that fighting is pointless. It's that he's not an idiot. He knows he has to unlock his rage to beat Cell. What's the point of flailing around when Cell and him already both know that he can't beat him as he is?

Going after Cell before that would just gaurantee defeat. It's like being behind in football with barely any time left and knowing that only a hail mary could win the game; if you just played regularly you would lose.

It sounds like you think he should just react the same to everything always no matter the situation or how old he is.

[ABED]

Wanting to help and liking to fight are different things.

I can't believe I actually have to explain this.

Funny that you were bothered by the lack of reading comprehension because I didn't even imply that Gohan liked to fight. It isn't about that. Gohan doesn't have to like it in order to want to stop Cell. I can't believe I had to explain that.

Are you against him trying to talk Cell out of fighting, or not hurling himself at him in desperation later?

If it's the latter, it's not that fighting is pointless. It's that he's not an idiot. He knows he has to unlock his rage to beat Cell. What's the point of flailing around when Cell and him already both know that he can't beat him as he is?

That's a reach, I don't think that's at all what Toriyama was implying. I'm against the idea that Gohan would be naïve enough to even think asking Cell to not fight would amount to anything. His reticence to fight would make more sense if it was all coming from self doubt, but even then it feels like a bit of a stretch. Gohan's age didn't matter when he fought men like Freeza. He's older and more experienced now.

[mAcChaos]

Well, that's what I always read it as straight from the manga. I mean, he did try to attack him once and Cell swatted him aside easily.

You have to ask yourself: why does he focus on trying to unlock his anger, instead of attacking Cell? Gohan knows how to fight, so if he had a real chance of winning by focusing on fighting Cell right there, he would have. But he didn't, so that tells you that he knew only SSJ2 would save them.

[ABED]

Well, that's what I always read it as straight from the manga. I mean, he did try to attack him once and Cell swatted him aside easily.

You have to ask yourself: why does he focus on trying to unlock his anger, instead of attacking Cell? Gohan knows how to fight, so if he had a real chance of winning by focusing on fighting Cell right there, he would have. But he didn't, so that tells you that he knew only SSJ2 would save them.

No his reticence is that he doesn't like to fight like his father and he doesn't like killing things. But is he trying to convince Cell that they shouldn't fight? So what if he doesn't like to kill? He doesn't have to like it in order to do it when it's the right thing to do. I don't think Goku liked killing either but he's willing to do so.

Gohan got in a pretty good shot on Cell, and none of Cell's attacks, while painful, seemed to do much in terms of harming Gohan beyond surface level damage.

[mAcChaos]

Yeah, but that was only when he was still trying to talk Cell down before Cell had decided to unleash Gohan's power.

And it wasn't so much that he didn't want to kill him, so much as tell him that if he didn't give up, he would die. So it was really up to Cell. If Cell decided to change his ways, he could live. If not Gohan would kill him. That's what the whole speech about his power was. Not, "I don't want to kill you" but "give up, or I'll kill you."

So his mercy is that he just gave Cell a chance to stop instead of trying to kill him instantly.

[penguintruth]

Wanting to help and liking to fight are different things.

I can't believe I actually have to explain this.

Funny that you were bothered by the lack of reading comprehension because I didn't even imply that Gohan liked to fight. It isn't about that. Gohan doesn't have to like it in order to want to stop Cell. I can't believe I had to explain that.

Are you against him trying to talk Cell out of fighting, or not hurling himself at him in desperation later?

If it's the latter, it's not that fighting is pointless. It's that he's not an idiot. He knows he has to unlock his rage to beat Cell. What's the point of flailing around when Cell and him already both know that he can't beat him as he is?

That's a reach, I don't think that's at all what Toriyama was implying. I'm against the idea that Gohan would be naïve enough to even think asking Cell to not fight would amount to anything. His reticence to fight would make more sense if it was all coming from self doubt, but even then it feels like a bit of a stretch. Gohan's age didn't matter when he fought men like Freeza. He's older and more experienced now.

Gohan knows that he has to fight Cell, that telling Cell the fight is pointless is also pointless. He does it because that's just who he is. He doesn't just refuse to fight Cell, he fights him. There's no sudden pacifism. He wants to help, in the abstract. He's not thrilled about having to fight, but he will when he has to. He only stops fighting when he's overwhelmed by the situation, unable to unleash his full power at will, paralyzed until ignited by 16's demise.

There's nothing out of character about any of this. It's what the entire story has built up to.

[thatdbzguy]

The Cell arc is extremely well plotted and characterized. It's what makes it the best arc in the series.

Oh my god, this is hilarious. Might have to make it my new sig.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So it's completely in character for him to be I wanna help, I wanna help, I wanna fight, I wanna fight, and then when it comes time, "Fighting is pointless". I get being overwhelmed and confused, but that wasn't what happened.

There wasn't anything to help in the beginning. He didn't want to fight because it really was pointless, and when his friends got in danger, he was trying to get angry to defeat Cell. I really don't see how it's out of character.

[Wibbs]

The Cell arc is extremely well plotted and characterized. It's what makes it the best arc in the series.

Oh my god, this is hilarious. Might have to make it my new sig.

You laugh now but just the fact that we can have a debate about something like this pretty much proves that Toriyama is capable of writing multi-dimensional characters.

[Flame Dragon]

Do some people really believe if Gohan attacked Cell in SSJ1 it would accomplish something? Especially since Cell was STILL suppressing a buttload of power.
It would just fatigue Gohan and have him get unnecessary injuries.
From an in-universe stand point, trying to go berserk was the only Gohan could have done.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think the Cell arc is pretty well thought out too much like the other parts of the series as a whole. The transition from the Old Man and Fat Clown to Two Teenagers and a Body Guard to the Giant Bug Thingy all flow so naturally to me.

Cell reaches his life's goal and then has a "now what?" moment and decides he wants to test his perfect power and once he's satisfied he'd destroy the Earth and go out into Space doing what ever he wanted.

[thatdbzguy]

The Cell arc is extremely well plotted and characterized. It's what makes it the best arc in the series.

Oh my god, this is hilarious. Might have to make it my new sig.

You laugh now but just the fact that we can have a debate about something like this pretty much proves that Toriyama is capable of writing multi-dimensional characters.

No, it just proves how blind some people can be whenever a character doesn't act like they should.

[Mystic Buu]

Do some people really believe if Gohan attacked Cell in SSJ1 it would accomplish something? Especially since Cell was STILL suppressing a buttload of power.
It would just fatigue Gohan and have him get unnecessary injuries.
From an in-universe stand point, trying to go berserk was the only Gohan could have done.

Of course!Gohan really didn't want to fight,but he was still weaker than suppressed Cell.

[rereboy]

I think you're underrating the situation a little too much. Think about it, there's 7 Cell Juniors and only one of him. They're all torturing his crew at once so naturally he'd want to do everything in his power to help them out but he can't tap into that power by will. Attacking Cell isn't to resolve anything.

Also, Cell is faster than he is.

Not at all. Gohan has never hesitated to actually try even agaisnt overwhelming odds. When he attacked third form Freeza to save Piccolo, Gohan knew that Freeza was much faster and stronger than him, he knew that he had very little chance of saving Piccolo and he knew that there was no one else that could save Piccolo at that moment. Did he just stand around because of that, trying to summon power and hesitating? No, he acted, he attacked, he tried his best, and, in doing so, he managed to pull off a power boost that saved Piccolo.

Its the same exact situation with Cell. Gohan knows that at that moment Cell is stronger and faster. And he knows that his friends and family are about to die and that there's no one else to save them. Does he act like he did agaisnt Freeza? Does he try anyway because he must? No, he just hesitates, he just watches. It takes the actual death of someone (#16) at the hands of Cell to snap him out of it.

The whole situation feels like it was created solely to add more drama and tension instead of a natural evolution of Gohan's behavior because it falls out of nowhere with no leading up to it.

[penguintruth]

No, it just proves how blind some people can be whenever a character doesn't act like they should.

Seems to me that it proves that some people have staggeringly weak reading comprehension skills.

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.

[rereboy]

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.

Really? Are you saying that its like I stopped reading Dragon Ball after Goku beats Piccolo? My example of Gohan versus third form Freeza doesn't prove the opposite? And how could anyone find a character inconsistent if they haven't read/watched anything else regarding him, which would be the case with someone who read Dragon Ball up until Goku defeats Piccolo and then read the Cell games? There would be nothing to compare him to.

[Flame Dragon]

If you think Gohan is out of character, it's like you just stopped reading after Goku beat Piccolo.

Really? Are you saying that its like I stopped reading Dragon Ball after Goku beats Piccolo? My example of Gohan versus third form Freeza doesn't prove the opposite? And how could anyone find a character inconsistent if they haven't read/watched anything else regarding him, which would be the case with someone who read Dragon Ball up until Goku defeats Piccolo and then read the Cell games? There would be nothing to compare him to.

A character, much like a real person, isn't (or shouldn't be) a robot programmed to do the same thing everytime.
There is a difference to different reactions and being out of character.

Even i, as a real human being, don't act to a situation now in the same way as i did 10 years ago.

Also, from an in-universe standpoint, Gohan rageboosts never accomplished anything.
Sometimes they worsened the situation.

1) Failed to kill Raditz, only made him angry.
2) Little scratch on Nappa's hand, woooho.
3) Pretty much zero damage on 2ndform Freeza.
4) Made 3rd form Freeza angry and made him go to Final Form.

It would make sense for Gohan to try controlling this power without losing control, since it's really powerful but accomplished jackshit.

[Nanotchi]

You laugh now but just the fact that we can have a debate about something like this pretty much proves that Toriyama is capable of writing multi-dimensional characters.

No, it just proves how blind some people can be whenever a character doesn't act like they should.

Maybe it's that people have different opinions? I find it ironic how you are someone who started hating the cell saga after "mature people" convinced you, and here comes maybe the biggest DB snob here(No offensive Penguintruth, I mean it in a good way!) who says it the best saga ever... :p