What do you like to see in fanfic/fan manga?

[SilverArmada]

I see a lot of strong opinions about what people like or don't like about various DBZ fanworks and I thought it might be cool to have a discussion thread about it. :D So what do you like to see in fanfic/fan manga as far as the story goes? Things you dislike? Things you hate and want to die in a fire? As a fanfic writer myself, sometimes I feel like fans are impossible to please. XD The most common complaint is that "your OC can't be more powerful than X because canon" which I understand, but at the same time, if I can't create powerful villains for DBZ characters to fight, what's the point? XD Besides, Freeza was the most powerful villain in DBZ until the next arc when the next villain was the most powerful, etc., so why should fanfic not be allowed to do the same thing? Then again, if someone is a canon purist, why read fanfic? XD

I think we can all agree that Mary Sues/Gary Stus and just general bad writing are things we dislike. I'm more interested in things that you don't like that aren't necessarily contingent on how well they are written. If that makes any sense. XD

[Malik_DBNA]

I see a lot of strong opinions about what people like or don't like about various DBZ fanworks and I thought it might be cool to have a discussion thread about it. So what do you like to see in fanfic/fan manga as far as the story goes? Things you dislike? Things you hate and want to die in a fire? As a fanfic writer myself, sometimes I feel like fans are impossible to please. XD The most common complaint is that "your OC can't be more powerful than X because canon" which I understand, but at the same time, if I can't create powerful villains for DBZ characters to fight, what's the point? XD Besides, Freeza was the most powerful villain in DBZ until the next arc when the next villain was the most powerful, etc., so why should fanfic not be allowed to do the same thing? Then again, if someone is a canon purist, why read fanfic? XD

I think we can all agree that Mary Sues/Gary Stus and just general bad writing are things we dislike. I'm more interested in things that you don't like that aren't necessarily contingent on how well they are written. If that makes any sense. XD

I think for most, me especially, the most hated thing is when things don't stay true to their source material, or when they go waaaaaaay out in left field with it. Best example: I read a fanfic where Son Nick (oh, I've torn this character apart so many times), the son of Gohan and a woman named Selina (yeah, he divorced Videl for absolutely no reason. Literally, he gave no reason as to why they seperated), is born a SSJ4 then eventually becomes so powerful (SSJ20 I believe) that the mere act of transforming warps reality and time, making him pretty much omnipotent. I mean literally, it didn't matter how strong his opponents were, he could kill them in 1 or 2 hits.

My BIGGEST DBZ fanfic peeves:

1) NAMES. I can't stand it when I'm reading a fanfic/manga of DBZ and I see people named common names found in our world. Steve, Nick, Tommy, Selina, Tanya, McClane, Lenny, etc. etc. et-fuckin'-c. I also hate it when they don't name pure-blooded Saiyans after vegetables (especially ones BORN ON Planet Vegeta), but instead give them these names, or name them after elements, demons, gods, etc. The same goes for cities (damn you DB Absalon).

2) Resurrecting old villains. I am so sick and tired of people taking the cheap way out and bringing back Freeza, Cell, Boo, Broly, Janemba, Omega Shenron, etc. Quit being lazy and make up your own villains. Along with this, I hate when people not only bring these villains back, but they are inexplicably SSJ4+ tier, develop powers they never had before (Freeza can regenerate... no), and have virtually none of their original personality traits.

3) SSJ6 and beyond. SSJ5 is pretty commonplace in the Dragon Ball fandom. I've come to accept that. I CAN accept SSJ5. But anything beyond that seems ludicrous. Especially when we get into the double and -dare I say- triple digit SSJ forms. Enough is enough. I say max out at the fifth form. I can't tell you how many fan series I quit reading the moment I see SSJ6 or beyond.

4) People suddenly knowing techniques they could not have possibly learned. Pan suddenly knowing how to teleport when Goku has been dead for 10 years? Oob using Kaioken x 100?? Kaioken x 1000??? Trunks using SSJ4 but never getting 2 or 3???? Beings who are clearly NOT Saiyans being able to use SSJ (I know Nekomajin can, but that's gag manga, these people are trying to be serious)????? ANYBODY being able to use the Genkidama/ Kaioken after Goku's been dead for years?????? Seriously...

5) EVERY Saiyan, regardless of background, being able to go Super Saiyan. I understand that almost all of the main Saiyan characters can, but EVERY saiyan should not be able to use it just 'cause. Its supposed to be a LEGENDARY form that not every one can reach (it took thousands of years for a second Super Saiyan to appear, that being Goku). Saiyans should have to work to get the form, not just be born with it (I'm looking at you Goten and Trunks).

[Tzigi]

In the order of importance:

What do I like in fan-created stories?

First and formost artwise: a Toriyama-copying style - or even better a Nakatsuru-copying-Toriyama's-style-copying-style. I'm not the kind of person to like "different takes at characters" - be they interpretations in the Marvel style or realist or any others. I like my Dragon Ball Toriyama/Nakatsuru-like. If a fanmanga differs significantly from the style - even if it has a great story - I find myself drifting away from it. It simply isn't Dragon Ball anymore.
Storywise:
- an actual story - not "the bad character X comes to Earth, destroys stuff, the Z warriors arrive and a fight ensues" type - the story doesn't have to be too convoluted, it simply has to exist somehow
- rationalizing/fitting together extant DB material - like what Toyble did with the Z sword as a place to seal Xicor, or Tapion training to become a Kaioshin and all the things Salagir had done for DBM
- filling holes in the existing DB story
- staying true to the Toriyama spirit - including crude jokes, lame puns and so on
- using the less exploited characters (like RMK's Elsewhere which puts Yamcha into limelight and does a great job of it)
- no stronger characters appearing out of nowhere - if they are to appear, they should be firmly grounded in DB lore so as to be explainable

What do I dislike in fan-created stories?

- as pointed out in the previous section: non-Toriyama drawing styles (and current Toriyama style also - now the person who uses the "Toriyama style" in the best way is probably Toyble/Toyotaro)
- fighting-focused stories and power level-focused stories even less
- super saiyan levels above 4 - or occasionnally above 5 (if well done - for an example of how ssj5 should be used check Toyble's AF); also different designs from the official ssj4 and the original-AF-rumour ssj5 (the one done by David Montiel Franco)
- too many OCs playing roles that are important for the story
- sequels - they have a nasty tendency to become obsolete once new DB material arrives
- repeating parts of DB plot - characters getting possessed, Gohan's power being unlocked for the nth time
- characters acting OOC (out of character)
- unnecessary hentai stories - mind you, I don't dislike hentai/ecchi per se but a lot of it is characters acting OOC or it doesn't fit into the storyline at all. Scarz' drawings are a great counterexample - the majority of them actually fits nicely into the story. But think just for a moment about "Gohan learns to fly and Videl learns to..." or some starring young Trunks and Goten together with Chichi - or Trunks and Pan for that matter - they just don't fit the characters' established behaviour
- crossovers - other then with other stories by Toriyama
- tracing - as you can see it's the last one - because if tracing is well done (it's not only the traced panel that looks good, the artist knew how to handle anatomy and how to change details etc), I can overlook it - but still, it's a bad practice

[DarkPrince_92]

What-if's for the most part. If the story just took a different turn, like the DB Multiverse specials for example. NO new SSJ garbage. (except for Young Jiji's I like his)

[Gyt Kaliba]

Really, all I truly ask is for the writer to be pretty good at what they're doing and be able to pull off what they have in mind. I've heard a quote somewhere before that's something along the lines of 'There are no bad characters, only bad writers'. I personally believe, or at least try to anyway, that this is true and can be extended even to 'There are no bad ideas, only bad writers'. And even then it could just be a misstep.

So basically, if the writing is good, I can handle a story of just about anything for Dragon Ball. That said, I'm really not much for complete AU's where characters are only themselves in name only though (like 'Goku is in high school, and a new bully VEGETA comes along!'). I'm also not too crazy about most pairing fics anymore because they all seem to be the same story re-written by a different author after they read one by someone else - IE about 90% of the 'This is how Vegeta and Bulma REALLY got together!' fics.

[KentalSSJ6]

Personally I dont care about every Saiyan able to go Super Saiyan anymore as it pretty much happened in the manga (aside from a toddler Pan and Bra). I take issue where EVERY Saiyan gets EVERY form (looking at you Heroes..). Not everybody needs SSJ3 or something.

I'm all for more SSJ forms beyond SSJ4 PROVIDED THEY ARE EXECUTED RIGHT. But personally, I stop at SSJ6.

Regarding names for fan series and OC's, I can get pretty anal about them. I'm with Malik in that the names should always follow the puns their races are based off of, with the exceptions of half breeds like Trunks and Bra. But yes, any full blooded Saiyan must be punned off a veggie for me.

It does get tiring seeing fan series with nothing but Saiyans (ironic, given my own series is titled Saiyan Wars...) to the point that I bothered making more characters from other races such as Freeza's, Tapion's, and Bojack's. We dont see much of their races so I thought it would be cool to expand on them abit.

It annoys me when a single character does the majority of the battles in a fan series, which is why I love Young Jijii's AF. Goku hasent had a single fight in it and everyone else has been doing the fighting and winning. Its very refreshing to see everyone get the spotlight once or twice.

[SilverArmada]

Malik - I can deal with names that aren't exact vegetable puns, as long as it's not like some of those you listed, a very common English name that we don't hear in the Dragonball world. As for SSJ5+, personally I kind of hate that. I think there are much more interesting and creative ways for characters to win fights that aren't just dependent upon "X becomes so strong they unlock another transformation!" For me, SSJ4 is already too much and I dismiss all of GT in my own fanfiction, so perhaps I'm unfairly biased against higher SSJ levels. But I haven't read a fic or fanmanga where it has been done in a way that doesn't just feel hokey. As for characters knowing techniques they shouldn't--this screams of lazy writing to me. Not just for the factor that it's generally impossible for someone to know X move, but that it's so boring--come up with something new, be creative! Hahah.

Tzigi - Personally I'm okay with art not done in Toriyama's style. I used to be like this years ago with fanart but I've come to appreciate an artist's work in their own style. But I can totally understand how you feel. I don't have a problem with original characters if they are done well. I write a fanfic set in the future timeline where Trunks and Bulma are basically all of the canon cast that is left, so I have a bunch of OCs in the story. I think it just depends on what point in time in DB someone is working with.

DarkPrince - AMEN. XD Yeah I'm not a fan of new SSJ transformations, I think there are much more interesting things to do than just power up characters to win a fight.

Gyt Kaliba - I agree 100%. I've read DB fanfics where a female Saiyan shows up and shacks up with a canon character, but the writing was so good that as stupid as the premise sounds, it was still an excellent story. Also, I hate high school AU fics, unless they are written to be a comedy/parody, they're terrible. XD

Kental - Unnecessary powerups are annoying, and just downright unbelievable when every character with any drop of Saiyan DNA can go SSJ3. Like I said to Malik, I can forgive names that don't match the puns as long as they sound believable. AND YES, I LOVE to see OCs in fics that are not Saiyans. We get enough Saiyans, it's nice to see either OCs of other existing races or races completely created by the writer. The DB world - both the Earth and the wider universe - has consistently shown that there is a lot of variety out there. So it should be super easy to add something to that existing variety.

[Pantalones]

What I dislike, in general:

• High school (and other "uses the characters' name/appearance but otherwise they might as well be someone completely ordinary and unrelated," like making them members of a band or something) AU stories, especially when they suddenly are normal people with no powers or anything. "A bunch of people with the power to blow up planets are stuck in a high school" could potentially be worth reading; "ordinary people who just happen to look like and be named after Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc. are stuck in a high school" not so much.
• Stories focused entirely on pairing up characters (I don't mind people writing this kind of thing so much in fandoms where there's not too many of them--I'll just skip over those and read something else--but some are just oversaturated with this sort of thing to the point where it's difficult to find anything else, and that's just annoying,) especially when it's a completely bizarre nonsensical pairing that would never happen and yet the author portrays it as serious and possible rather than a parody/joke sort of thing.
• A complete refusal to use OCs, to the extent where literally everything is just characters or plots recycled from the series (bringing back old villains with inexplicable new power-ups, turning some strong guy evil, etc.) because the author is afraid other people will whine about their OCs actually being important. I mean, yeah, it's annoying if they introduce a new hero who suddenly overshadows everyone else... but that doesn't mean new characters period are bad. Every single DBZ story arc (and every single movie) introduced new characters.

What I dislike, DBZ-specific:

• "Super Saiyan Fifty Gazillion" type forms. I'm not even the biggest fan of SSj4, but it can work if it's handled well. SSj5 I can tolerate to some extent if I'm focusing more on "hey, this fan-manga is drawn really well" rather than the story and such; anything above SSj5 is just absurd, especially the really stupid stuff where it gets into the double-digits or above.
• Giving absolutely everyone SSj3, SSj4, or higher (SSj3 Vegeta I can get. SSj2 or maybe even SSj3 Future Trunks? That kinda works, depending on the situation. SSj3 Trunks and Goten? Um... not at the rate they've been training, no.)
• "Super _____" forms for non-Saiyan characters--yeah, it's nice to have the Saiyans not be in the spotlight all the time, but come up with a more original way of doing it, please. Same with non-Saiyans randomly being Super Saiyan.
• Goku or Saiyans-in-general being the only important characters or the only characters who can actually fight, at least if it's to GT-like extents or worse (even though Goku usually was the one to save the day in Z, the others at least had something to do--stomping some of the bad guy's minions, teaching new techniques, saving somebody from an attack that would've killed them, weakening/distracting the bad guy so someone more powerful could win, etc.)
• And finally, characters that are just inexplicably stronger than everyone (a previously unknown Saiyan or Freeza-relative shows up and holy crap we need SSj4 to beat him! wait, what?? regular old Super Saiyan should be more than enough here.) It's okay to introduce super-strong new villains, but don't make them someone who realistically shouldn't be anywhere near that strong. Pretty much every new DB villain has a justification for being as strong as they are (Piccolo's the evil half of Earth's god, Raditz is a stronger member of the same race as Goku, Vegeta's the highest elite of that same race, Freeza's the guy who basically enslaved the Saiyans and destroyed their planet, Cell's made up of the cells of all of those guys combined with the technology that made the Androids so strong, Buu's a demon sealed away millions of years ago by the highest gods because he was a threat to the whole universe), at least if you ignore most of GT. If you want a super-strong alien to show up, don't make them a Saiyan (especially a non-Super Saiyan) or a Freeza relative, those guys have been irrelevant power-wise ever since the Super Saiyan form first appeared. Come up with some other story/origin for them.

[Polyphase Avatron]

4) People suddenly knowing techniques they could not have possibly learned. Pan suddenly knowing how to teleport when Goku has been dead for 10 years? Oob using Kaioken x 100?? Kaioken x 1000??? Trunks using SSJ4 but never getting 2 or 3???? Beings who are clearly NOT Saiyans being able to use SSJ (I know Nekomajin can, but that's gag manga, these people are trying to be serious)????? ANYBODY being able to use the Genkidama/ Kaioken after Goku's been dead for years?????? Seriously...

You know Goku didn't invent Shunkan Idou, Kaio-ken, or Genki dama right?

Someone trained by a Kaio could know Kaio-ken or Genki Dama, wouldn't that make sense?

[Malik_DBNA]

4) People suddenly knowing techniques they could not have possibly learned. Pan suddenly knowing how to teleport when Goku has been dead for 10 years? Oob using Kaioken x 100?? Kaioken x 1000??? Trunks using SSJ4 but never getting 2 or 3???? Beings who are clearly NOT Saiyans being able to use SSJ (I know Nekomajin can, but that's gag manga, these people are trying to be serious)????? ANYBODY being able to use the Genkidama/ Kaioken after Goku's been dead for years?????? Seriously...

You know Goku didn't invent Shunkan Idou, Kaio-ken, or Genki dama right?

Someone trained by a Kaio could know Kaio-ken or Genki Dama, wouldn't that make sense?

While this is true, it is wholly unreasonable for characters like Oob or Pan, who have not trained with a Kaio or the people from Yardrat (even in the fanfic), to just know the techniques. Lazy LAZY writing

[Michelle91]

I want to see more ideas based on stuff that we never seen in the DB universe. If you fan fiction writers want more living Saiyans then why not have them come from the Original Saiyan Planet then Planet Vegeta. The GT Perfect Files states the original planet still exist and I had a idea where a group of Saiyans from the original planet come to Earth to kill Vegeta and the others as they believe Saiyans from Planet Vegeta do not deserved to be real Saiyans since they both have two different live styles.

I also get tired of Xicor and the same colors for SSj5. Bring back Broli and other DBZ villains gets old as well. Instead bring back a character like Broli then why not bring back someone who is never used in fan fictions and do something creative with him/her. I never see anyone use Dr. Uiro from DBZ Movie 2 in fan fictions and it would be nice to give him a upgrade.

[KentalSSJ6]

I want to see more ideas based on stuff that we never seen in the DB universe. If you fan fiction writers want more living Saiyans then why not have them come from the Original Saiyan Planet then Planet Vegeta. The GT Perfect Files states the original planet still exist and I had a idea where a group of Saiyans from the original planet come to Earth to kill Vegeta and the others as they believe Saiyans from Planet Vegeta do not deserved to be real Saiyans since they both have two different live styles.

I also get tired of Xicor and the same colors for SSj5. Bring back Broli and other DBZ villains gets old as well. Instead bring back a character like Broli then why not bring back someone who is never used in fan fictions and do something creative with him/her. I never see anyone use Dr. Uiro from DBZ Movie 2 in fan fictions and it would be nice to give him a upgrade.

Fan Works thread has a bunch of different SSJ5 designs a few pages back. Surf through them and I'm sure youll find one you like.

[Polyphase Avatron]

You know Goku didn't invent Shunkan Idou, Kaio-ken, or Genki dama right?
Someone trained by a Kaio could know Kaio-ken or Genki Dama, wouldn't that make sense?

While this is true, it is wholly unreasonable for characters like Oob or Pan, who have not trained with a Kaio or the people from Yardrat (even in the fanfic), to just know the techniques. Lazy LAZY writing

So if someone threw in a line like "Uub went to Kaio's planet and learned Kaio-ken and Genki Dama" that would be okay?

[Pantalones]

I would be okay with an adult Uub knowing moves like Kaio-Ken, Instant Transmission, and Spirit Bomb... because the last time we saw him, he went off to train with Goku, who knows all of those techniques. It'd be no different than if we heard at some point that... let's say Pan, little kid Pan so there won't be any risk of pervy moments... was training with Master Roshi, and then the next time we see her she uses the Kamehameha. We never saw her learn it, sure, but we know she was training with someone who most definitely does know it and could realistically teach it to others. This basically happens with Gohan and the Kamehameha--he'd always used Masenko or generic ki blasts earlier in the series, only learning Kamehameha after training with Goku, and I'm pretty sure there's no scene of Gohan's First Kamehameha or anything--he just suddenly has it at one point.

It's one thing for someone like Goten or Trunks or Pan (or worse, someone who has basically no connection to Goku and has never undergone Kaio training or been to Yardrat) to suddenly whip one of those out without any previous indication that they might have learned them, but in Uub's case it would make sense because it's specifically said that he's going to be training with Goku for a long time and there's the implication that Goku wants him to protect Earth when he's gone (continuing off of his "let the next generation handle things" attitude during the Buu saga, and possibly leading up to him and Vegeta running off to who-knows-where for one final battle before they get old as mentioned in the DBO timeline.) Why wouldn't Goku teach him those moves if they're going to be training for 5-10 years or however long anyway? Uub's the first person Goku's trained (or trained with) who wasn't focusing so much on rapid power gain, but rather learning how to use the enormous power he already has, but doesn't know how to draw out consciously... what better way to turn him into a master of controlling his ki than to teach him several more advanced ways of using it rather than just "Kamehameha all the time?"

EDIT: The "oh hey, Uub randomly went to North Kaio's place and learned his techniques in this sentence" thing would honestly bug me a lot more than Uub showing those moves off without any explanation. As long as this is Uub after training with Goku, it shouldn't be that strange for him to know moves that Goku knew.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Yeah, I don't see the problem with Goku being able to teach people the techniques he learned from Kaio-sama. Hell, hasn't there been complaints in the past about him not having done it in-series, given how useful Instantaneous Movement is, and how Kaio-ken could possibly let the human characters keep up a little better? Especially if a story is doing a big huge gap in time between end of Z and when it's taking place, I don't see any reason at all that he couldn't have taught some Kaio-sama stuff to say Pan and Oob at least, since both likely train directly under Goku.

Though I guess I could be a little biased, since such techniques are likely to show their face via those two later on in my own fic.

Although going back and re-reading Malik's first post on the subject, I guess my case could be a little different - my story doesn't include GT or anything like Goku's been gone for years - he's still there and it's feasible enough that, yeah, he's taught the kids some things. In something that includes GT though, it would be a little suspect to have them knowing the moves, since Pan never really got to train hardcore under her grandfather like she should have, and if Oob had known any of those moves, why the heck didn't he use them in GT.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well in my fanfic I'm planning to have Kaio-Ken used by the Dai Kaioh... which I think would make sense (my reasoning is that by the time we see him in the anime he is too old to use it safely but in my fic he is younger and could use it).

[Scarz]

Huh? I wonder why I didn't see this topic before? Well, it seems like a lot of people here listed things I already like and dislike but I don't see a harm in listing a few things myself.

What I Like:

• Unique original characters - I'm not against OCs, in fact I really do love them. But just like everything in fiction, it depends on how well they're written. This goes double for villains.
• Well Designed OCs - Now this can be lumped in with with just "Unique OCs" but I think being creative with a DB character is super important, especially when it comes to how they look.
• Universal or Other-world travel - I personally love space travel stories or dimension hopping and the DB universe seems ripe for such interesting stories.
• Well Drawn (or well written) Fight Scenes - I'm stickler for well drawn action scenes. I just love seeing a good fight which is probably the reason I started reading manga a long time ago. In DB, I think a well choreograph fight scene is a must.

What I dislike:

• Terrible OCs - I think this one goes without saying but this fandom just attracts a hoard of terribly written OCs. And more times than not they're self inserts. I also absolutely hate it when a character is ridiculously stronger than any of the main characters. Villains can get away with that sometimes but a side character should not. At least not without a proper explanation.
• Zero Humor or Comedy - If there's zero comedy in story I'm usually turned off by "this is super serious all the time!" plot. No matter how intense or dark your DB fanfic/fanmanga is, I think a small moment of humor can go a long way.
• Extra Saiyans - Ugh, I hate it when a new saiyan pops out of now where and is instantly just as strong as(if not stronger than) everyone else. I wouldn't mind it too much if it was an AU where most saiyans lived or if there were a few lingering Saiyans who weren't on planet Vegeta when Freeza destroyed it. But they should be just as weak as Bardock or maybe Nappa.

I don't have much of a "hate" list because I'm usually open to a lot of ideas and stories when it comes DB fanfic/mangas. If it's executed well it could be really enjoyable.