Goku Vs. Paikuhan

[deadguy366]

How was Goku able to defeat him so easily if he couldn't even stand up to Cell. Paikuhan basically one shotted Cell a couple episodes earlier, so there should be no way Goku is stronger. He didn't even go ssj2.

[Gonstead]

1. Cell wouldn't have been at full power, much less 'Super Perfect'.
2. He was caught off guard
3. BS Toei filler character hyping, almost as bad as the humans on Kaio's planet defeating the Ginyu Force.

[Nazi Cola]

Cell was definitely "Super Perfect" and I'm sure there's even a guidebook except attesting to this. Now, that's not to say he couldn't have been suppressed or in a relaxed state, but he essentially became "Super Perfect" by default because you don't just lose a zenkai power-up.

[Gonstead]

That "Super Perfect" form was more of a transformation like SSJ2 created via the zenkai than his actual base power. That's at least how I see it.

[Polyphase Avatron]

There's also the fact that, IIRC, Pikkon never used Burning Shoot against Goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How was Goku able to defeat him so easily

Er, what? From what I recall, Paikuhan had the advantage in the fight. Plus, Paikuhan defeated Cell with a special technique that seems to work like the Kaio-ken, and he never used that on Goku.

[Mystic Buu]

I always believed that he was suppressed but Paikuhan also used some flame technique like Kaioken and that helped.

[Hugo Boss]

It wasn't an easy victory, Paikuhan was giving Goku a lot of trouble and had the advantage until the end, but was outsmarted. And there is a lot of argument about the kaioken-like technique Paikuhan uses to defeat Cell or if Cell uses a significant portion of his power, dropping his own defenses to attack Goku.

[Darknat]

I suppose it doesn't count, but doesn't the tenkaichi 3 encyclopedia says that Goku was SS2 in that fight? I know the anime staff didn't even know back then what a ss2 was, and the hair was not correct, and also there was no lighning (for the most part), but maybe this has been retconed.

[90sDBZ]

That episode in hell isn't one I take that seriously to be honest. I mean Cell and all the other villains get locked in jail for crying out loud.

[dbzfan7]

I go with the suppressed theory, but Paikuhan is still stronger than Goku either way at the time...it's the Goku/Daimao/Mutaito thing all over again

[Super Vegetto]

I don't know if this is right translation, but it says: Cell’s strength wasn’t any different in Hell.




So if that is what it says, it's all because of this:




Pikkon (special attack) > SPC > Pikkon

[mAcChaos]

He didn't beat Cell. He only surprise attacked him and launched him into that lake, which doesn't let people escape, remember?

So after that it was over. If Cell was able to get out again then who knows what would happen.

Remember just because you hit someone with a surprise attack in DBZ doesn't mean you are stronger. Look at SSJ Kid Trunks kicking Fat Buu or Piccolo kicking Freeza.

[Super Vegetto]

He got 2 hit on Cell. Cell was outcold with 1st...btw ginyu force got out of lake back in frieza saga...

[mAcChaos]

He got 2 hit on Cell. Cell was outcold with 1st...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w56glJVbrw4

Huh, you're right. If you look at Cell's eyes, they're blanked out.

Also I like how Freeza gets jealous of Cell's power.

[Super Vegetto]

[VegettoEX]

A single image, particularly a meme image, is not an appropriate response to a conversation.

[Kakarot88]

In-Universe Rationale:

• Kaio-ken puts a huge strain on the body.
  Super Saiyan puts a huge strain on the body.
  The living body as seen in the Boo arc can endure less than the dead body (see Goku going SS3).
  The living body therefore could not take Kaio-ken on top of Super Saiyan given the strain.
  
  The Super Exciting Guide says
  • SS1 is base form x 50
    SS2 is SS1 x 2, so that would be base form x 100.
  Goku has used Kaio-ken up to x20.
  
  Goku went super saiyan and then upped the power by using Kaio-ken when he fought Pikuhan, so if Goku's Kaio-ken was greater than x2 as a Super saiyan then he would be equal to if not greater than SS2 bc SS1x2 = SS2...and Goku was able to do this because Goku was dead and the dead body can take more strain than the living body allowing Goku to be more powerful than an SS2 without going SS2

[deadguy366]

That episode in hell isn't one I take that seriously to be honest. I mean Cell and all the other villains get locked in jail for crying out loud.

That's a good point actually. Based on that episode Goku should've been able to defeat Cell, however Kakarot88's and others responses have helped rationalize things for me. Thanks.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

1. Cell wouldn't have been at full power, much less 'Super Perfect'.
2. He was caught off guard
3. BS Toei filler character hyping, almost as bad as the humans on Kaio's planet defeating the Ginyu Force.

I see it as :
Cell > Paikuhan > Goku

But the only reason Paikuhan gained the advantage was because the attack he used was like kaioken of some sort. It multiplied his ki.
So with moves like Kaioken, then I see the chain as :
Paikuhan > Goku > Cell.

Goku only won the match because he outsmarted Paikuhan and would have lost if not otherwise. Hell, he even resorted into using SSJ kaioken during the fight.