Dragon Ball and the Bechdel test.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I've been thinking a lot about the Bechdel test lately, and the fact that it's shocking how many works of fiction don't meet it. Naturally, as with any thought process, my mind eventually went to Dragon Ball.

For those who don't know, to pass the Bechdel test a work of fiction must meet the following criteria:

1. It has to have at least two women in it,
2. Two women must talk to one another.
3. What they are talking about can not be a man.

Due to the limited amount of female characters in the series, there seem to be very few instances where this criteria is met. I'm likely wrong, but off the top of my head, I can think of no point in the manga where two women have interacted in this manner, aside from Bulma speaking to an elderly woman near the start of the series.

To be clear, this topic was NOT created as a cry of sexism of the series, it is more out of curiosity and to see what instances we can come up with where the criteria was met.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I knew about this test, and it's one of the stupidest things I've heard in my life.
The funny part is when people take it seriously when it comes to reviewing a film. If you're curious, check why the second Harry Potter film passes it.

[VegettoEX]

I knew about this test, and it's one of the stupidest things I've heard in my life.

OK, but you're not exactly adding anything to the conversation here.

Why is it stupid? Why do you think it's not relevant?

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, there was Bulma yelling at that one kid's mom at the Junior Division of the Budokai, Bulma and Chi-Chi arguing during the same tournament, Bulma talking to her mom.... I'm sure there are others.

What's the point of this test, anyway?

[Herms]

There's Bulma asking Lunch to get them better seats at the tournament, and probably other interactions the two have.

Pretty sure Bulma talking to Grandma Paozu is the first time in the series though.

[UltimateHammerBro]

I knew about this test, and it's one of the stupidest things I've heard in my life.

Why is it stupid? Why do you think it's not relevant?

Sorry man.
What I meant is that I hate when people take it seriously (it was born in a comic strip, y'know) and try to use it as a norm to judge if a show/movie/book/comic book/whatever is or isn't sexist. I'm pretty sure that some feminist wannabe has already said that DBZ is sexist because of this test and yada yada.
And then I read that some serious cinema organisations take it into account when reviewing a film, and I lose my faith in humanity.

What's the point of this test, anyway?

It's supposed to tell if a work of fiction is or isn't sexist. And supposedly, if that work doesn't pass the test, it's something that promotes sexism and gender inequality.
When it's taken word-by-word (and I've seen people who do it), it can lead to examples like this:
1 - If an episode of a TV series is, for example, centered around two guys talking about women, it's sexist because it doesn't meet the criteria.
2 - If said episode was about two women talking about guys, it's sexist too because it doesn't meet the criteria either.
3 - Episode 1 of Dragon Ball is sexist because Bulma doesn't talk to any other girl, even though there is only one other character she can talk to (excluding the monster, of course).
4 - The second Harry Potter film isn't sexist because of a single line: -Mum, have you seen my jumper? -Yes, it's on the cat. (not the exact line, I'm translating) which isn't even said on camera.

[superfunk]

It's supposed to tell if a work of fiction is or isn't sexist. And supposedly, if that work doesn't pass the test, it's something that promotes sexism and gender inequality.
When it's taken word-by-word (and I've seen people who do it), it can lead to examples like this:
1 - If an episode of a TV series is, for example, centered around two guys talking about women, it's sexist because it doesn't meet the criteria.
2 - If said episode was about two women talking about guys, it's sexist too because it doesn't meet the criteria either.
3 - Episode 1 of Dragon Ball is sexist because Bulma doesn't talk to any other girl, even though there is only one other character she can talk to (excluding the monster, of course).
4 - The second Harry Potter film isn't sexist because of a single line: -Mum, have you seen my jumper? -Yes, it's on the cat. (not the exact line, I'm translating) which isn't even said on camera.

Hypersensitivity is a culture today.

[Kid Buu]

In my film major courses we did a Women in Media class where I did write about anime. I did a Bechdel Test for Naruto and an inverse for Sailor Moon manga, never thought about doing one for DB. The only interaction I remember is Chichi and Bulma, but they were arguing over their sons.

And yes, Bechdel test is important. I've been told you go against it, and so have others. Which is quite sickening.

[ABED]

Important to whom? Why is it not okay to have a show that doesn't have women in it? It's fine if it doesn't have men in it.

[Kid Buu]

Important to whom? Why is it not okay to have a show that doesn't have women in it? It's fine if it doesn't have men in it.

"The Bechdel Test isn’t intended as a mark of quality, rather of gender diversity within a narrative."

It doesn't mean DB if a bad series if it fails to pass, but rather there is a neglect on women in the series. Besides, I don't think Toriyama knew what he wanted to do with his female characters most of the time. Hell, I don't even think he knew what he wanted to do with most characters.

[ABED]

Important to whom? Why is it not okay to have a show that doesn't have women in it? It's fine if it doesn't have men in it.

"The Bechdel Test isn’t intended as a mark of quality, rather of gender diversity within a narrative."

It doesn't mean DB if a bad series if it fails to pass, but rather there is a neglect on women in the series. Besides, I don't think Toriyama knew what he wanted to do with his female characters most of the time. Hell, I don't even think he knew what he wanted to do with most characters.

I'm well aware of what the test is for, I'm asking "so what?" Is every series required to have diversity?

[Rocketman]

It's supposed to tell if a work of fiction is or isn't sexist.

Incorrect. It's supposed to point out how rarely women get to be the central figures in fiction.

It's not a "test" that you instantly pass or fail, it's just supposed to get you thinking about representations of women. You aren't supposed to go "Harry Potter 2? *stamps PASS*", you're supposed to go "Harry Potter 2 technically passes, but because of a single-off camera exchange consisting of two lines. Is that good enough, that 51% of the human race is not allowed to talk to themselves?"

Women outnumber men 51-49 in the real world. In films, men outnumber women 66-33. Why is that? Why is it so hard to show women talking to each other and not about men? Men talk to each other all the time in movies without bringing up women, after all.

[ABED]

I think it's more interesting how people (even some women) react to female characters. The level of vitriol for Skylar White on Breaking Bad baffles me. I wonder if people would've found Pan less annoying if she was a boy.

[garnetjester]

I think it's kind of hard to apply this test to Dragon Ball since there are so few female characters, and the few that appear aren't really close to each other anyway (Bulma and Chichi or Lunch come to mind), so we don't even have enough conversations between them proper to draw conclusions.

[rereboy]

One of my favorite shows is Buffy. They shouldn't be afraid of doing shows with strong women. Dragon Ball lacks female characters but they aren't very conventional. Bulma is even a genius.

[garnetjester]

I agree that DB doesn't have enough female characters, but I think the ones who are there are pretty cool and none of them is a damsel in distress trope or anything like that. Bulma is an independent genius, Chichi is super strong and is clearly the one who is charge in her family, Videl is super spunky and Lunch well, she can fend for herself is all I'll say . I really like that.

[ABED]

Not sure what if anything Toriyama would do with her, but it's a shame that Lunch leaves the story. She was always entertaining.

[Kid Buu]

I think it's more interesting how people (even some women) react to female characters. The level of vitriol for Skylar White on Breaking Bad baffles me. I wonder if people would've found Pan less annoying if she was a boy.

I've noticed that too. Female characters get way more criticized than male characters.

[garnetjester]

This is true and especially grating in DB where there are like 10 female characters in total.

[Kid Buu]

Bulma, Chichi, Lunch, Baba, #18, Videl, Pan. 6

Also Mai, Marron, & Ran Fan but they are pretty minor, yes even compared to Lunch minor.