My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:36 am

Fionordequester wrote:I guess while we're on the subject, is peeing in public really a thing in Japan?
Just how far will you go to assuming what you see in a kid's show is Japan's culture?

What you're doing is really offensive and you probably haven't even realised it yet.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:41 am

dbboxkaifan wrote:
Fionordequester wrote:I guess while we're on the subject, is peeing in public really a thing in Japan?
Just how far will you go to assuming what you see in a kid's show is Japan's culture?

What you're doing is really offensive and you probably haven't even realised it yet.
Exactly.

Seriously Fion, are you saying these things to bust our balls?
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:44 am

On Arrested Development the character Dr. Tobias Funkë says "Who would like sausage in the mouth?" when referring to just eating a sausage, you don't see anyone making any ideas of this being true in US do you? So why would someone peeing on the streets in Dragon Ball be any different?
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Valerius Dover » Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:15 am

Goku is presented as a naive boy who has never been anywhere near civilization before. Growing up in nature, he simply has different values. In Japan, I assume they're able to except that on TV. I doesn't mean they go around doing that. You know, on a side note, the lower classes in Sweden really DO do that public, however, and I think it's gross. Not easy to escape, either, since this isn't a class-based country. That means you could have rich people like me living next to a slum neighborhood with graffiti. Like I said, the weird humor (which never truly stops, but is at its highest in this first saga) never even makes me cringe, because I can separate fiction from real life.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Storm » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:51 pm

Big Momma wrote:I'm gonna completely disagree with this and your post before it. Fiono definitely isn't being racist. This person obviously just doesn't know about Japanese culture. And although I don't think they should be taking the show so seriously/literally, they've already stated they have a hard time doing that.
Racism isn't just calling people slurs or directly attacking them. It's a bigger concept than that. It's also being ignorant, which Fionordequester is being more than just a bit of.
ABED wrote:Seriously Fion, are you saying these things to bust our balls?
Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with this. This is just too asinine to believe.

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:38 pm

Unfortunately, what Big Momma says is true. As I've said, taking things at face value and taking things literally is a problem for me. My disorder gives me numerous other advantages, like being able to think super hard about things, but it also comes with it's disadvantages...

EDIT: Anyways, I'm gonna look up the whole "peeing in public" thing. I'm actually really fascinated about that now.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:53 pm

Ok, so I did a quick Google search, and asked a dude who had lived in Japan and speaks Japanese. And as it turns out, yes, people DO indeed urinate in public in Japan. As he says...
Old men pee in public all the time...and drunk guys pee in public, due to Japanese drinking culture. I don't think you'd get arrested unless you were causing a serious problem
So, there you go. Now, according to some Google articles, like this one...

http://forum.gaijinpot.com/forum/workin ... tion-legal

...part of it is because sometimes there aren't a ton of public restrooms, and it's also something that's generally looked down upon, so most people will try to do it discreetly, i.e., going in bushes, or taking a side street where there aren't as many people...but yes, it is, indeed, a thing in Japan.

So, ok, I'm not mad at Japan or anything, at least not for that. That's really interesting, as was Bulma's comment to Goku about how he was calling her by the wrong honorific. That stuff is really interesting, since I'm learning something new about Japan...

What I AM upset about is how people attacked me for thinking such a thing without bothering to do prior research themselves. I mean, ok, I get it. I wasn't as careful in how I worded things as I should've been, and I hurt some feelings. In fact, I'm probably guilty of not doing enough research myself, like what happened with my last criticism. But I also think that when you go too far with politeness, it completely hinders one's ability to actually learn the truth, and THAT'S not a good thing either, as stories like Farenheit 451 have taught us. That's where I'm coming from when I say "I don't like conflict", but am still willing to say things that potentially upset people. I'm trying to be balanced, in the best way I know how, because neither extreme is good.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:07 pm

That's just describing the rest of the world pretty much, if you're not caught by the police peeing then that's OK for whoever's doing it.

Is it okay to vomit on the street? Of course not but people do it more often than not before the cleaners take care of it and it's gross seeing it. I saw a man taking a piss on a wall during the day but I just turned a blind eye because I was on my break and didn't want any trouble.

Oh and, there's also dogs and people who leave their turds on the street without cleaning.

*sigh* if any of these people were educated they wouldn't be doing any of these actions (except vomiting as that could happen when least expected) regardless of country, Fion.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:01 pm

Ok, so Bulma's an airhead after all. Or at least, she sure acted like one in this episode. On an unrelated note, good thing Goku was there to fight that Wolf Bandit dude!

Image

I mean, it's not often you meet someone who happens to be carrying around a Super Shroom in his back pocket!

Image

Image

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I mean, yikes! Good thing all it takes is one good whack to cut em' back down to size!

Image

:D :D :D

Other than that, nothing too interesting about this one, other than that apparently, Master Roshi's pervertedness wasn't quite as prominent when he was first introduced as it was later. I mean, he still asked to see Bulma's panties, but if this were later Roshi, he'd probably be yelling his lines and having this exaggerated anime face as he was asking. Curse you Ned Flanders!

Also, am I right in assuming that he has eternal life thanks to a phoenix? I've always heard he had immortality, but I never really knew the source of that. If I'm right, welp, now I know I guess!
Last edited by Fionordequester on Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Zestanor » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:07 pm

He keeps changing his story about his immortality. I think he told Tenshinhan something else later on.

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by garnetjester » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:47 pm

I think that was just a gag to point out that the immortal phoenix died of food poisoning (or something like that) which is ridiculous.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:18 am

Huh...Oolong's got a few issues, huh? Fortunately, the episode made it a point to say that he was even younger than Bulma, but still, I have to say...it's more than a little creepy watching a grown, adult man trying to sweet talk a 12 year old who's less than twice his height, even if it IS a disguise :sick: !!

Also, that bit in the episode where the narrator literally has to POP IN and EXPLAIN to the audience what happened? My goodness...my GOODNESS that is some HORRIBLE writing right there! One of my pet peeves in any work of fiction is awkwardly delivered exposition, but that...man, they didn't even try with that, did they? In fact, if there's any moment in Dragon Ball Z that's without a doubt superior in the FUNI dub than in the Japanese version, it's one particular scene in the Buu Saga where they do that exact same thing.

It's when Evil Buu had just escaped from Fat Buu, and he's floating up there in the sky, looking all menacing. In the Japanese version, I don't remember them having the narrator pop in again to talk, but they do definitely have these long lines of text explaining that Evil Buu is the escaped evil that was festering within Fat Buu, and exactly how it all worked...but in the FUNI dub...well, you know what they did in the FUNI dub?

I'll tell you. They had NOTHING. It was complete silence, with no talking whatsoever, and without a single letter of text in sight, as they were doing the camera pan to where Evil Buu. Complete silence, except for one, and only ONE line said by Fat Buu. And this is it...

Fat Buu: .......Bad Buu!

And that was it. That was all that was said. And that was all that needed to be said. I learned everything I needed to know from one simple line...

Now, I know I'm nitpicking. And that's NOT to say that I didn't enjoy this episode. I did! The payoff at the end, where it turned out the girls were just living out the good life, henpecking Oolong...was funny! But, man, that exposition...that hurt man! I felt like a 5th grader, listening to the narrator come down and explain things to me :( !
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Big Momma » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:13 am

I get what you're saying, but remember...this show was made for 5th graders. :P
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by ABED » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:30 am

We get it, you read about the rules of writing and you know writers need to hide their seems when it comes to exposition, but instead of telling us that you didn't like the exposition, how about you tell us what you are referring to. Not everyone remembers every single thing.

If you want to get technical, they didn't need the "Bad Buu" line.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:39 am

Fionordequester wrote:Of course, I will note though that I'm skipping the "Emperor" Pilaf saga, because frankly, I don't exactly need bare breasts, wangs, and butts in my Dragon Ball experience :sick: ...
So you're perfectly fine with people being murdered, but you find bare breasts offensive? There really is something horribly wrong with Western society.

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:23 am

We get it, you read about the rules of writing and you know writers need to hide their seems when it comes to exposition, but instead of telling us that you didn't like the exposition, how about you tell us what you are referring to. Not everyone remembers every single thing.
Hmm, you're right. I thought you'd remember. Well, it was when Oolong turned back into a big after trying to threaten Goku, tricked Goku by making him think he was just some cute piggy who saw the "real Oolong" run by, was all "phew, sure glad he thought I was a cute piggy!"...and then this ~32 second long thing started where the narrator was explaining to us what happened.
If you want to get technical, they didn't need the "Bad Buu" line.
Technical is overly pedantic though. Point is, they gave us everything we needed to know, with just one line, and without needing to break the 4th wall, which is a far better way of going about it. And this is from a dub that was usually infamous for adding dumb and unnecessary dialogue!
So you're perfectly fine with people being murdered, but you find bare breasts offensive? There really is something horribly wrong with Western society.
I do have an explanation for this. But, if you want it, you'll have to get it via PM. As I said, I REALLY don't want to talk about it anymore, because I feel like it would make what's supposed to be a pleasant thread, unpleasant to read. And I don't think either of us will make any headway in convincing each other, so it's kind of futile as well.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:44 am

You don't have to explain, I already understand, it's the attitude of Western culture. The human body and sex is seen as offensive, but murder and violence is ok, even for their children.

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:57 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:You don't have to explain, I already understand, it's the attitude of Western culture. The human body and sex is seen as offensive, but murder and violence is ok, even for their children.
...Nah, I'd say we're just more squeamish in ALL areas really. At least, when it comes to what we show our kids (I mean, heck, the Ocean dub is proof of that). Come adult television? Then I think we're about the same as other people. I'm the outlier really, when it comes to squeamishness around sex and stuff.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:21 pm

UpFromTheSkies wrote:You don't have to explain, I already understand, it's the attitude of Western culture. The human body and sex is seen as offensive, but murder and violence is ok, even for their children.
I don't get this behaviour of the westerners, I personally wouldn't show either one to a child if such is too strong but in Dragon Ball's case? It's not an issue to worry about. I do suppose that Fion might complain about a boob from a statue that's on a Dragon Ball: The Legend of the Dragon episode.

This is the one:

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Due to how sensitive the western audience is the edited version of the Ocean Group cast dub has a tree covering Gohan's tiny penis:

Image

They could've given him some pants or underwear rather than this obvious censoring they've done.
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Re: My opinion of Pre-Z Dragon Ball? Let us find out, now!!

Post by Storm » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:53 pm

Well, given that the audience just saw Gohan turn into an Oozaru that ripped all his clothes, magic pants would probably make more problems than it solves. :P

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