The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

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Bullza
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The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:11 am

Compared to the original Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan 3 forms the Super Saiyan 2 just doesn't really stand out.

The design itself looks good but for the most part it's just the original Super Saiyan with sparks and sometimes spikier hair. Toriyama could have done a better job at designing the form so it appeared more unique or maybe have just had it be a further upgrade of the Super Saiyan like the Ascended and Ultra Super Saiyan forms.

Super Saiyan 3 could have been Super Saiyan 2. I believe even Toriyama forgot about it.

What makes it worse is that because it looks so similar to the original when it's animated they can omit the sparks or the hair. How many times have people argued over whether Gohan was SSJ1 or 2 when fighting Dabura or Broly for example.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:03 am

Well, the form stood out pretty well when Gohan used it in the Cell saga, but outside of that, I agree with you.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:07 am

I think it is different enough as originally thought: Super Saiyan 2 Gohan looks very different and doesn't convey the same impression at all than Super Saiyan Gohan.

I think the "too similar" problem came when it was time to give that form to Goku, Vegeta and High School Gohan: they have hairstyles that make their hair already upwards to the max when just Super Saiyans on the contrary of Cell Game Gohan, so the appearance traits Toriyama established earlier were harder to make obvious, the only real difference being a minor tweak to the hair thickness and how many bangs fall on the forehead...

So I think it all comes down to the fact that when he conceived the form for Gohan, Toriyama thought "great, he does look vastly different and more badass, so let's say this form is so intense that it makes you hair even spikier, that looks different and good". But at the time he likely didn't think to give the form to any other character and how they wouldn't look as distinct as Gohan's forms with their hairstyles, so he did what he could with bangs and making hair thinner to convey that "spikier" effect, plus lightnings. But those are not details as striking as Gohan's Cell Game hairstyle and they ended up being so subtle in comparison to the striking Super Saiyan 2 Gohan that some of those traits were forgotten at times, both by the author and the anime staff.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by thatdbzguy » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:08 am

Kid Gohan's SSJ2 is sexy, but yeah, the others characters could have had more distinct looking SSJ2 forms.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Bullza » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:18 am

I suppose it's as you say Super Saiyan 2 Gohan looked noticeably different, not as much as I'd have liked another form to look but different nonetheless.

Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta however looks pretty much exactly the same except with sparks that more often than not dont seem to be there. There were times in GT and I think in BoG where Vegeta should ideally be a SSJ2 but doesn't appear as one.

Gotenks never had a SSJ2 it was just skipped to SSJ3. Same with Kid Goku in GT there was the first and third forms but no SSJ2.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Fizzer » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:20 am

A good move would have been to make the auras different. Say, have SSJ1 have a smokey glow like when we first see it in the anime, and give SSJ2 a more violent, flame-like aura with electricity. The two forms really are too similar.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Cetra » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 am

Goku was a SSJ2 in GT, Bullza. He transforms in the Japanese opening, against RIldo and against Baby.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:24 am

Wasn't it originally supposed to have a tail, but the idea was scrapped because Toriyama didn't like drawing tails, which is why he made Goku lose his tail in the first place? ...or maybe that was SSJ3, it's been years since I've looked at the daizenshuu.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Pikachuuu » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:11 pm

thatdbzguy wrote:Kid Gohan's SSJ2 is sexy
Uhh....

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Fizzer » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:57 pm

Pikachuuu wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:Kid Gohan's SSJ2 is sexy
Uhh....
I guess it's a sexy design, you know, like "that car is sexy" or something.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Kaboom » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:58 pm

I think it looks just fine, considering the way it was used and portrayed when it premiered. Less of a different "form," and more as a super-charged "max power" version of Super Saiyan.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:10 pm

The issue lies in Goku and Vegeta's SSJ1 hair.

Goku's most defining difference between SSJ1 and SSJ2 is that in 2 he gets 3 bangs and in 1 he gets 5.

Vegeta is even more of a pain, though I guess a somewhat noticeable tell is the lock of hair that forms right on his widow's peak and framed by two locks on the left and right.

Cell Saga SSJ2 Gohan is so distinct due to the stark difference between his SSJ2 hair and SSJ1 hair. His SSJ1 one hair is the must subtle in the franchise, all it does is just very slightly raise compared to his base form hair. Then when you see his SSJ2 with the hair straight up and rigid with only one bang, its very easy to tell the difference between his forms.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by shinmaru » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:20 pm

Gotenks never had a SSJ2 it was just skipped to SSJ3. Same with Kid Goku in GT there was the first and third forms but no SSJ2.
Kid Goku GT did turn ssj2 for just a second against General Rilldo.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Marco Polo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:25 pm

It should have been a form exclusive to Gohan, or at least to half-Saiyans.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by xmysticgohanx » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:34 pm

The SSJ3 design should've been better. It's ugly af.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Insertclevername » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:37 pm

I think it was fine the way it was and Cold Skin pretty much nailed it with his explanation, however I once had this idea to add slightly sharper teeth to the form, as a subtle way of implying that this form is more ferocious or something.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:07 pm

Insertclevername wrote:I think it was fine the way it was and Cold Skin pretty much nailed it with his explanation, however I once had this idea to add slightly sharper teeth to the form, as a subtle way of implying that this form is more ferocious or something.
That would have looked a little silly in my opinion.

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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by Insertclevername » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:14 pm

I mean, it would be super subtle. Obviously huge wolf fangs would look ridiculous but slightly jagged teeth could help reinforce the savageness it had during the Cell Games.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by thatdbzguy » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:45 am

Pikachuuu wrote:
thatdbzguy wrote:Kid Gohan's SSJ2 is sexy
Uhh....
You know it is.
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Re: The Super Saiyan 2 design could have been better.

Post by penguintruth » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:59 am

At least the form doesn't cause eyebrows to disappear.

The more I think of that aspect of SSJ3, the more it disturbs me.
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