I don't believe that Gohan got weaker.mAcChaos wrote:That can be weaker.
When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Reading Rainbow
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
I believe Gohan got weaker because Vegeta said he was stronger as a brat (or kid rather).DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I don't believe that Gohan got weaker.mAcChaos wrote:That can be weaker.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
It is pretty clear that his "easily accessible" ki is lower when compared to his kid self during the battle with Cell, but he is not necessarily outright weaker since, if pushed to an enraged state, he would put forth more power.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Since I believe that Gohan was a SS2 there, he was stronger as a brat because he had the rage boost & because his skills were better back then (they are rusty now).Reading Rainbow wrote:I believe Gohan got weaker because Vegeta said he was stronger as a brat (or kid rather).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
I still find it funny these days that people believe SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell is merely 2x SSJ Gohan. Buu Saga makes it pretty clear that Gohan can get more powerful if enraged, so it is obvious that SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell was miles ahead of what he would be with just a 2x boost.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
I don't know how strong SSJ2 by itself is, but for Gohan in the Cell Games, his SSJ2 state was more like a constant rage boost. It was like he captured it and made it a constant state, rather than a burst of power in a single moment. That's what made his mastery over SSJ1 so dangerous. (He gained the ability to control it and not have it slip away instantly.)sekzee wrote:I still find it funny these days that people believe SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell is merely 2x SSJ Gohan. Buu Saga makes it pretty clear that Gohan can get more powerful if enraged, so it is obvious that SSJ2 Gohan vs. Cell was miles ahead of what he would be with just a 2x boost.
[i]"I have yet to show you, young warrior, what I'm truly capable of."[/i] - Cell
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Gogeta8001
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Their was a thread like this on DBZF not too long ago.
It's pretty clear that Gohan was only an SSJ2 at the Budokai (M10 as well if you include non-canon material). Ths is clearly shown because Gohan only had the sparks at the Budokai and not anywhere else in the Saga. Toriyama wouldn't point blank forget to put sparks on Gohan while he was fighting Dabura and Buu for no reason, he's a forgetful person but not to that degree lol.
It's pretty clear that Gohan was only an SSJ2 at the Budokai (M10 as well if you include non-canon material). Ths is clearly shown because Gohan only had the sparks at the Budokai and not anywhere else in the Saga. Toriyama wouldn't point blank forget to put sparks on Gohan while he was fighting Dabura and Buu for no reason, he's a forgetful person but not to that degree lol.
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Reading Rainbow
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Have you seen Gohan as an SSJ 1 before the 25th World Martial Arts tournament? I have, and when comparing THAT to SSJ 2 you can see subtle differences. SSJ 2 is not always represented as having eletricity - not even in the anime.Gogeta8001 wrote:Their was a thread like this on DBZF not too long ago.
It's pretty clear that Gohan was only an SSJ2 at the Budokai (M10 as well if you include non-canon material). Ths is clearly shown because Gohan only had the sparks at the Budokai and not anywhere else in the Saga. Toriyama wouldn't point blank forget to put sparks on Gohan while he was fighting Dabura and Buu for no reason, he's a forgetful person but not to that degree lol.
Also you're speaking as if you know Toriyama personally.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Only anime barely had sparks. Manga always had sparks. Gogeta8001 isn't speaking as if he know Toriyama. He speaking with logic. Any other time a ssj2 is there. SPARKS. This fight has no sparks the entire time. Yet people debate this.Reading Rainbow wrote:Have you seen Gohan as an SSJ 1 before the 25th World Martial Arts tournament? I have, and when comparing THAT to SSJ 2 you can see subtle differences. SSJ 2 is not always represented as having eletricity - not even in the anime.Gogeta8001 wrote:Their was a thread like this on DBZF not too long ago.
It's pretty clear that Gohan was only an SSJ2 at the Budokai (M10 as well if you include non-canon material). Ths is clearly shown because Gohan only had the sparks at the Budokai and not anywhere else in the Saga. Toriyama wouldn't point blank forget to put sparks on Gohan while he was fighting Dabura and Buu for no reason, he's a forgetful person but not to that degree lol.
Also you're speaking as if you know Toriyama personally.
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Gogeta8001
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
That's why you shouldn't take the Anime at face value. Gohan was an SSJ2 in M10 and he had no sparks. Goku and Vegeta were SSJ2's in M12 & M13 yet they still have no sparks.
No, I don't know Toriyama personally (wish I did though lol). What I do know is that based off the Manga, we can clearly see when SSJ2 is used or not regardless of the hairstyle. Every SSJ2 shown in the Manga is shown with Sparks and Gohan only had it during the Budokai. I don't think Toriyama would forget to put the sparks on Gohan during the Dabura and Buu fight if he intended for him to be SSJ2. And besides, Gohan already had the lead as an SSJ against Dabura since Goku states that Dabura is around the same level as Cell (this is debated a lot but it would make sense for Goku to be referring to the Supressed Cell that he actually got to fight VS the Cell he only saw and observed).
If you need any more proof on this, just look at the start of the Goku VS Majin Vegeta fight. Toriyama only draws Goku with sparks and not Vegeta being that he's the only SSJ2 and Vegeta hasn't transformed. Toriyama is very careful when differenting SSJ and SSJ2.
No, I don't know Toriyama personally (wish I did though lol). What I do know is that based off the Manga, we can clearly see when SSJ2 is used or not regardless of the hairstyle. Every SSJ2 shown in the Manga is shown with Sparks and Gohan only had it during the Budokai. I don't think Toriyama would forget to put the sparks on Gohan during the Dabura and Buu fight if he intended for him to be SSJ2. And besides, Gohan already had the lead as an SSJ against Dabura since Goku states that Dabura is around the same level as Cell (this is debated a lot but it would make sense for Goku to be referring to the Supressed Cell that he actually got to fight VS the Cell he only saw and observed).
If you need any more proof on this, just look at the start of the Goku VS Majin Vegeta fight. Toriyama only draws Goku with sparks and not Vegeta being that he's the only SSJ2 and Vegeta hasn't transformed. Toriyama is very careful when differenting SSJ and SSJ2.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Anime tends to screw up a lot more than Toriyama. In the Manga Vegeta clearly goes SSJ2 against Kid Boo and has the sparks and everything, in the anime they're not there.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
You are mixing anime with manga, which makes no sense. In the manga there's always sparks when someone is a SSJ2.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Not always.Drayenko wrote:In the manga there's always sparks when someone is a SSJ2.
Spoiler:
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miguelnuva1
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
That wasn't the full ssj2.Son_Gohan wrote:Not always.Drayenko wrote:In the manga there's always sparks when someone is a SSJ2.
Spoiler:
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
You just proved that it doesn't have sparks for every single second.Son_Gohan wrote:Not always.Drayenko wrote:In the manga there's always sparks when someone is a SSJ2.
Spoiler:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Based on Vegeta’s comments and actions thereafter, it was. The title of the anime episode would even suggest it being the full power of his state.miguelnuva1 wrote:That wasn't the full ssj2.
Considering that makes up the duration of its appearance that is the only time it could have it. You just demonstrated how the sparks are an inconsistent trait.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: You just proved that it doesn't have sparks for every single second.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
The transformation lasted for a second at the point you mentioned. In every point where a Super Saiyan 2/3 was stated to be there, he had sparks all the time, except for a few panels (and except when SS3 Goku was gathering energy, which was obviously because he was gathering energy). Which means that the sparks constantly come & go away, like they do in the anime when they are there.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
So what 2 panels compared to an entire fight. Gohan vs Cell. Sparks. Goku vs Majin Vegeta. Sparks. Vegeta vs Boo(all versions) sparks. Goku turns ssj3 sparks. Yet this entire fight has no sparks and it's debatable? Also how could you say it comes and go like the anime when the anime barely had them while the manga had them 95% of the time.
Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
Wasn't Goku vs Majin Vegeta done along side Gohan and Dabura (meeting around Boo's egg). Seems odd why lightning couldn't be added for Gohan while it is for the SSJ2 fight.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
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TheGmGoken
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Re: When was Gohan a SS2 in Boo arc (again)
People claim it was to show that Gohan was weaker or rusty so his ki wasn't sparking. Don't see how rage or power have to do with sparks but ok. People also claimed it was to show Gohan being weaker than Goku and Vegeta.dbzfan7 wrote:Wasn't Goku vs Majin Vegeta done along side Gohan and Dabura (meeting around Boo's egg). Seems odd why lightning couldn't be added for Gohan while it is for the SSJ2 fight.