Hello, I was wondering about Gohan's "Final Warrior" also known as Mystic Gohan, What exactly was this transformation? How powerful was Gohan in this form, and probably the toughest question could he go above and beyond and transform into Super Saiya-jin?
The anime, Manga, nor did VegettoEX's pod questions really help I wanted some feedback from the forum.
Gohan "Saikyou No Senshi"
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Casual Matt
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To put it as simply as I can, this form, which I shall simply refer to as "Mystic form" for simplicity's sake (wow, that's a lot of simple), was basically Dai Kaioshin-sama releasing all of Gohan-kun's latent energy. Kinda like what Saichoro (AKA Guru) did except it was all of it. I assume it's all of the energy he would have had at Super Saiyajin 3 but without losing it all just by powering up.
Which kinda explains why he never went Super Saiyajin. I'm pretty sure it's because he already had access to his Super Saiyajin powers. Actually transforming only would have wasted energy.
Which kinda explains why he never went Super Saiyajin. I'm pretty sure it's because he already had access to his Super Saiyajin powers. Actually transforming only would have wasted energy.
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MajinVejitaXV
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Re: Gohan "Saikyou No Senshi"
Going SSJ would actually be a step down. The "mystic" powerup is to SSJ as SSJ is to the Kaioken.superstar wrote:Hello, I was wondering about Gohan's "Final Warrior" also known as Mystic Gohan, What exactly was this transformation? How powerful was Gohan in this form, and probably the toughest question could he go above and beyond and transform into Super Saiya-jin?
-Corey
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Eclipse
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I thought Saikyou No Senshi meant 'Incredible Warrior'. Oh wellPost subject: Gohan "Saikyou No Senshi"
Ok, I'm confused a bit. Is this form somewhat similar to Goku's SSJ form acheived during the Cell Games, in which you're not losing any energy, but you're in a transformed state?Going SSJ would actually be a step down. The "mystic" powerup is to SSJ as SSJ is to the Kaioken.
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MajinVejitaXV
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I thought it meant '[The] Strongest Warrior'.Eclipse wrote:I thought Saikyou No Senshi meant 'Incredible Warrior'. Oh well
I always imagined it as something like SSJ3 at it's hyped 'full power' with no drain.Ok, I'm confused a bit. Is this form somewhat similar to Goku's SSJ form acheived during the Cell Games, in which you're not losing any energy, but you're in a transformed state?
-Corey
I thought Mystic Gohan was stronger than super Saiya-jin 3..MajinVejitaXV wrote:I thought it meant '[The] Strongest Warrior'.Eclipse wrote:I thought Saikyou No Senshi meant 'Incredible Warrior'. Oh well
I always imagined it as something like SSJ3 at it's hyped 'full power' with no drain.Ok, I'm confused a bit. Is this form somewhat similar to Goku's SSJ form acheived during the Cell Games, in which you're not losing any energy, but you're in a transformed state?
-Corey
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Casual Matt
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I think it's close to the same strength, but as a Super Saiyajin 3, one loses energy very quickly, whereas Mystic Gohan doesn't waste any.superstar wrote:I thought Mystic Gohan was stronger than super Saiya-jin 3..MajinVejitaXV wrote:I thought it meant '[The] Strongest Warrior'.Eclipse wrote:I thought Saikyou No Senshi meant 'Incredible Warrior'. Oh well
I always imagined it as something like SSJ3 at it's hyped 'full power' with no drain.Ok, I'm confused a bit. Is this form somewhat similar to Goku's SSJ form acheived during the Cell Games, in which you're not losing any energy, but you're in a transformed state?
-Corey
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LegendarySSJ7
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What you speak of is simply Rou Kaioshin and his ritual, and him uncorking Gohan's latent potential. I'm not quite certain of the roots of the fan term 'Mystic', but it's not a form in itself, just the sheer volume of power Gohan was capable of tapping into at that time, or his maximum 'roof', 'limit' of sorts.
As for Gohan's tremendous growth in power, a growth in power as much as to equal SSj 3 Goku and his plane of power, as it were? Not true in the slightest. Gohan made sport out of a new Boo who equally combated a SSj 3 Gotenks on grounds whom Goku was nowhere near in terms of power, even as a SSj 3. Goku was shaking in his boots in trepidation over the mere thought of fighting the new Boo whilst unfused. Thus, Gohan is much stronger.
On a closing note, I wouldn't say Chou Gohan is to SSj 3 Goku what the SSj form was to Kaiõ-ken (not that he wasn't above him in power by leaps and bounds and worlds, but that it wouldn't work in that sense of contrasting).
As for Gohan's tremendous growth in power, a growth in power as much as to equal SSj 3 Goku and his plane of power, as it were? Not true in the slightest. Gohan made sport out of a new Boo who equally combated a SSj 3 Gotenks on grounds whom Goku was nowhere near in terms of power, even as a SSj 3. Goku was shaking in his boots in trepidation over the mere thought of fighting the new Boo whilst unfused. Thus, Gohan is much stronger.
On a closing note, I wouldn't say Chou Gohan is to SSj 3 Goku what the SSj form was to Kaiõ-ken (not that he wasn't above him in power by leaps and bounds and worlds, but that it wouldn't work in that sense of contrasting).
Last edited by LegendarySSJ7 on Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
With all of Gohan's potental unlocked then, can he still do his rage power boost then? Because whenever he becomes enraged, he is an unstoppable powerhouse. I've always thought that unlocking his full potential took away that "ability" since he was then at his maximum and his power couldn't rise anymore.
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Blade
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Sorry, but the concept of unlocking Gohan's "latent energy" confuses me. Is this to say the Gohan already has this power, but has no means of portraying it through his body? Or is it to say that the "Mystic" power up is Gohan's fully realised potential, meaning that the power he realises through the Kai's ritual is the absolute limit to any power he can physically obtain in his lifetime?
As for GT, I don't think there is an explanation as to what goes on other than the animators enjoying the novelty of making his hair go yellow for a few seconds before he gets severely beaten in a single attack. *sigh*
It does beg the question though, if this is infact the perfect way of tapping into potential energy without wasting any energy through transformation why is Gohan the only one to be given this treatment? Understood that there was limited time during the battle with Buu, but surely it could have been done in order to save the Earth from any possible future threat once Buu had been defeated.
As for GT, I don't think there is an explanation as to what goes on other than the animators enjoying the novelty of making his hair go yellow for a few seconds before he gets severely beaten in a single attack. *sigh*
It does beg the question though, if this is infact the perfect way of tapping into potential energy without wasting any energy through transformation why is Gohan the only one to be given this treatment? Understood that there was limited time during the battle with Buu, but surely it could have been done in order to save the Earth from any possible future threat once Buu had been defeated.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
All throughout DragonBall Z, Gohan's hidden potential was constantly refered to. And at times we were lead to believe that it was brought out; Piccolo's training, Guru's power-up, and SSJ 2. The power he gets in the Buu saga is all of that latent energy that he has never let out (which is why it took so long to bring forth). This means that he is constantly at his maximum and cannot get stronger without training.Blade wrote:Sorry, but the concept of unlocking Gohan's "latent energy" confuses me. Is this to say the Gohan already has this power, but has no means of portraying it through his body? Or is it to say that the "Mystic" power up is Gohan's fully realised potential, meaning that the power he realises through the Kai's ritual is the absolute limit to any power he can physically obtain in his lifetime?
Gohan did indeed have the power to go Super Saiyan, but he and his body refused it because the overload with power would have caused him to die (which is why Goku and Vegita were at base forms when they fused). His body was utterly maxed out and could not contain all of the power that a full SSJ transformation would have brought. But, a non-detrimental transformation is possible and can only be achieved through training his body to be able to contain all of his power.
As was the case with Goku and raising the Kaioken above what his body could handle. In the beginning he could not take Kaioken x3. Where as grueling training at 100x gravity and a kanzentai allowed him to handle Kaioken x20.
As for his rage power-ups in the past, his anger merely tapped into a fraction of his latent power. In the case that Gohan did get incredibly pissed against Buu, he would have only had a shift in emotion rather than getting stronger because (as mentioned before) his body was completely maxed out and he would not have been able to gain anymore power at that point of battle.
But, this is all theory though.
Let's not blame Gohan for the inadequacy and inconsistency of the GT writers, please.Eclipse wrote:However, Gohan seemingly forgets this fact in GT.
Anyway, others have already explained it as well as I possibly could. Every single ounce of Gohan's hidden potential was utterly unlocked. He would have no need to transform anymore. He's essentially at his peak. He has as much or more power than he would have had as a SSJ3, except in a stress free state with no rapid ki loss. It's really a perfect form for fighting. Its only drawback is that it is no match for any of the stronger forms of Buu past Super Buu 1. (But could likely have mopped the floor with Kid Buu. That's a debate, I think, for a "strongest form of Buu" thread, not this one.)
It's nice to see many still hear and spread the numerous crazy fan theories about ol' Powerpuff Gohan(I heard mystic term was originaly invented by Greg a long time ago, but the M word is getting old(and sometimes deceptive), so, if not using any official terms is prefered, a new name idea like that should do 
). The only thing missing is the ridiculous "He couldn't turn ssj or the planet would blow up" stuff. You'd think most would get the fact that Powerpuff Gohan isn't really Gohan in a transformed state since the manga and anime both clearly talk about how there wasn't a transformation(take normal Gohan, remove his naiveness and all the boundaries making him the best he can be, and you have Powerpuff Gohan ).
). The only thing missing is the ridiculous "He couldn't turn ssj or the planet would blow up" stuff. You'd think most would get the fact that Powerpuff Gohan isn't really Gohan in a transformed state since the manga and anime both clearly talk about how there wasn't a transformation(take normal Gohan, remove his naiveness and all the boundaries making him the best he can be, and you have Powerpuff Gohan ).I do believe that "planet destruction" debacle was a Funimation thing. One of many regrettable little additions they made to the dialogue.
Like Metrite said, the only thing we're told/shown for sure is that he's quite a bit stronger, and that his potential is supposedly unlocked completely. It's not a transformation per se but , causes Gohan to become comparable in power to some other transformations/fusions we've seen in the saga.
I suppose the video games should have made him a seperate character. I get the feeling that making it his final transformation in the Budokai games have only fed fuel to the misconception that it's a sort of Saiyan "form", which is sort of ironic, considering the Rou DaioKaioshin stated he'd used this on other warriors before, and never mentioned if they were Saiyans or not. (I'm guessing no, since there would have been an overall lack of heroic Saiyans in the universe 15 Kaioshin generations back.)
Like Metrite said, the only thing we're told/shown for sure is that he's quite a bit stronger, and that his potential is supposedly unlocked completely. It's not a transformation per se but , causes Gohan to become comparable in power to some other transformations/fusions we've seen in the saga.
I suppose the video games should have made him a seperate character. I get the feeling that making it his final transformation in the Budokai games have only fed fuel to the misconception that it's a sort of Saiyan "form", which is sort of ironic, considering the Rou DaioKaioshin stated he'd used this on other warriors before, and never mentioned if they were Saiyans or not. (I'm guessing no, since there would have been an overall lack of heroic Saiyans in the universe 15 Kaioshin generations back.)
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Olivier Hague
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Err, about Gohan being to transform into SSJ after Elder Kaioshin' power-up, I haven't got the manga within any sort of reaching distance right now so I can't confirm the exact words, but when Gohan asked Elder Kaioshin how to change into the 'Ultimate Warrior', didn't he just basically tell Gohan to do the same thing he would do to transform into a SSJ, thus after that intial power up, Gohan's ultimate 'form' essentially replaces his SSJ forms. Elder Kaioshin then goes on to say how the SSJ tranformation is just showbiz, basically dismissng it as a waste of time.
Also another thing is that midway through the power up ritual Gohan gets pissed at Kaioshin and starts to power up. His pupils are no longer visible, as if he's a SSJ, but his hair is still black. It's as though he is at some sort of half way stage between 'Ultimate' and SSJ, showing that 'Ultimate' is eating its way though SSJ.
What I'm saying is I get the impression that Gohan can no longer make the SSJ transformation, and that there's quite a bit of manga-based evidance that back up that claim.
Also another thing is that midway through the power up ritual Gohan gets pissed at Kaioshin and starts to power up. His pupils are no longer visible, as if he's a SSJ, but his hair is still black. It's as though he is at some sort of half way stage between 'Ultimate' and SSJ, showing that 'Ultimate' is eating its way though SSJ.
What I'm saying is I get the impression that Gohan can no longer make the SSJ transformation, and that there's quite a bit of manga-based evidance that back up that claim.
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MajinVejitaXV
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Good point, I seem to remember this myself.Jodaku wrote:Err, about Gohan being to transform into SSJ after Elder Kaioshin' power-up, I haven't got the manga within any sort of reaching distance right now so I can't confirm the exact words, but when Gohan asked Elder Kaioshin how to change into the 'Ultimate Warrior', didn't he just basically tell Gohan to do the same thing he would do to transform into a SSJ, thus after that intial power up, Gohan's ultimate 'form' essentially replaces his SSJ forms. Elder Kaioshin then goes on to say how the SSJ tranformation is just showbiz, basically dismissng it as a waste of time.
-Corey