Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:But SSJ3 Veggeto has yet to exist outside of a video game, same with SSJ3 Broly and Vegeta.
Goku could make an estimation of SS Gotenks' power before he existed, and his estimation was never proven wrong. So, since he is familiar with Super Vegetto & Super Saiyan 3, it should be easier for him to make an estimation here.
Also, this isn't like Broli & Vegeta, Vegetto should be able to go Super Saiyan 3 if he could go Super Saiyan that easily, and Goku should be aware of that. Goku didn't say "Even if I were to merge with Vegeta, we wouldn't be able to win unless I go SS3", he just said "Even if I were to merge with Vegeta, we probably wouldn't win". And if he was to merge with Vegeta, he will either do it with Fusion or Potara, and if he turns into Gogeta or Vegetto, he should be able to go from base to SS3. And he would still probably lose. Later, when he turns into Super Saiyan God, he says that he was surprised that such a realm existed (I assume that realm=power, because nothing else that was suggested so far makes sense to me). Meaning that God Goku & Beerus are far above the "probably" at that point, and then we learn that Beerus was holding back, and Whis is actually even stronger...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
You keep saying should, but that doesn't mean confirmed. Its still nothing but speculation and guessing. Until we see Veggeto fight Beerus as a SSJ3, or the outcome is confirmed by a official source, it remains Beerus > Super Veggeto and nothing more. Not SSJ2 Veggeto, not SSJ3 Veggeto, just Super Veggeto.
I just don't see Goku not taking into account SS2 & SS3 when talking. Gotenks could transform from SS to SS3 in a week, and Goten & Trunks couldn't even go beyond Super Saiyan on their own. We saw that Vegetto didn't need any training to go Super Saiyan, so since Goku & Vegeta can also go SS2, and Goku can go SS3, I don't see how Vegetto going SS3 would be impossible, especially when he is dozens of times stronger than Gotenks, and much more skilled & experienced than him.
And again, if Goku could accurately predict SS Gotenks' power by knowing the Fusion boost & SS Goten's & Trunks' full power, then he should be able to predict SS3 Vegetto's power as well.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gogeta8001 wrote:SSJ4 Goku (Buu Saga) VS Mystic Gohan
SSJ4 Tullece VS Android 17
Goku wins. I don't see a huge gap(a sizeable one though) .
Can Tullece eat the fruit? Even though he'll not need it.
Correct me if I'm wrong but dont we have stuff saying Tullece was on par with first form Freeza?
Wouldn't that mean Tullece would be around 2 billion or so as a SSJ4? Using the X4000 multiplier for SSJ4 anyway.
He ate the fruit and kick Goku ass(Meaning close to Freeza). Then he ate it again after or during the fight with the earthlings. Raising his power higher.
Tullece is nowhere near base GT Goku (SSJ3 Buu Arc Goku)
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
The SS4s stomp so hard their enemies turn into diamond.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
There is no canon. But if you mean manga Bardock, he stomps. He's supposed to be well above the average saiyans, just not quite elite level. I think he's 2,500 when Freeza nukes Vegeta, and 3,000 in EOB.
Gine isn't a fighter, and I actually think Raditz was pretty strong for a low class. He beats his mother to a pulp.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
