Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[rereboy]

Well I recall I said the pacing killed it for me, and then I got bitched at that that is my fault. I never had a problem with the pacing when the whole thing was INTERESTING. Now it's just plain boring. I want some more nods to the plot points they set up, but they never happen. So it takes month's for the plot to actually move.

If you let your lack of patience ruin it for you, then its nobody's fault but your own. Its ok if you don't find it interesting or if you don't like it, but letting release schedule issues taint the comic for you? That's on you. Using the Game of Thrones example once again, that would be like a fan saying that the story and the books were ruined for him because it takes years for another book to come out. You really think that's a issue with the story, a problem of the author, or is it just the fan personal problem?

Actually, it does if it's too much. Again, even the greatest of stories is worthless if the reader loses interest in it...or, for that matter, if the writer loses interest in it.

In fact, actually, that's what I'm afraid of most. I'm afraid that, at some point, Salagir is going to lose interest in this franchise (because, I dunno, it's too hard to maintain, or maybe he gets fed up with the critics, or maybe he gets married and decides that this is taking too much away form his personal life), and then he'll quit and leave behind an unfinished story. And if THAT happens, the bad pacing of this fanfic will, indeed, harm the story, since with better pacing, there's also a much better chance that he'll actually finish the thing before something causes him to drop out...

I mean, let's think about it. Let's say the main story is moving at...I dunno, 1x Speed. And right now, there seems to be about 2 Special Arcs per Main Story Arc. So, by my deductions, if he were to drop the Specials and start releasing the Main Story chapters several times a week (with inferior artwork), the story would then move at 3x Speed. And let's say Salagir, at his current pace, drops out, and leaves the story only 30% done.

Well, had he maintained the faster pace, with no filler, that same story would now be 90% done by the time he drops out, you know what I mean? That's where I'm coming from. So, unless Salagir has the work ethic of a beast, I'm afraid that this story isn't even going to be finished.

So, the Game of Thrones author should just rush the books, sacrificing much of the time he uses to improve the quality, so that maybe some impatient fans don't lose interest due to their lack of patience?

Because that's basically what you are saying. And it doesn't make any sense.

[TheOverlyMadHatter]

"Pffiouw"

[RandomGuy96]

Goku looks so bad...

[Scarz]

So that's what Ten was holding! That's... actually pretty neat and clever!

[Gyt Kaliba]

Huh, that's an...interesting thing to try and seal Boo into. Also, 'Pouick!' sounds like something Pinky from Pinky and the Brain would say. Not sure what to make of 'Pffiouw!'.

[Fionordequester]

So, the Game of Thrones author should just rush the books, sacrificing much of the time he uses to improve the quality, so that maybe some impatient fans don't lose interest due to their lack of patience?

Because that's basically what you are saying. And it doesn't make any sense.

Apples and Oranges. In the case of "Game of Thrones", the author would indeed be harming the story by rushing it. But HERE, the story isn't what's taking so long. The main holdup is in the artwork. Take that out of the equation, and it seems to me that we'd have the SAME story quality, just with lesser artwork (and not even that much lesser, if Tao Pai Pai can make art like this on a weekly schedule).

Although really, Salagir may just want to alter the release schedule. Brian Clevinger, for example, only updated 8-Bit Theater twice a week (I think...), while Salagir updates it...four times a week? Maybe it would help the pacing if Asura had a schedule that's not as demanding as four times a week, but not as lenient as...however long they have?

EDIT: In fact, really, I think if Salagir were to suddenly die, and I, for whatever reason, ended up working on Multiverse, I think that's what I'd do. Reduce the release schedule to two times per week, cut out the filler by having Tao Pai Pai do most of the artwork, and then maybe break out Asura for the "Vegetto and Broly" tier fights.

EDIT2: Or heck, maybe do something like what the anime does. Hire, say, three more artists of Tao Pai Pai's tier, whose styles are fairly similar to each other, then have one artists work on one page while the other artists works on the next, and while THOSE two are working on their pages, the other two artists would work on whatever, and etc, etc...I know Salagir is somewhat doing that already, but I mean do this for the main story, not have each artist handling entire storylines by themselves.

[dbzfan7]

If you let your lack of patience ruin it for you, then its nobody's fault but your own. Its ok if you don't find it interesting or if you don't like it, but letting release schedule issues taint the comic for you? That's on you. Using the Game of Thrones example once again, that would be like a fan saying that the story and the books were ruined for him because it takes years for another book to come out. You really think that's a issue with the story, a problem of the author, or is it just the fan personal problem?

I think you're missing my point. I never complained about the pacing before until the story (or lack there of) got boring. I used to be excited for the next pages and while sure I wanted more to come out quicker, but I was so invested that I was fine with waiting. Now a days the plot is going nowhere so my problem is not with "when is the next page coming of the fight" It's "When is the next plot page coming" And instead of waiting a few days for a new page to extend the plot, I'm waiting months as nothing we are learning is extending the plot, it's just padding and filler with mindless fights. If the pages became more plot focused on things like the Ginyu conundrum and XXI, I'd be happy to wait.

[rereboy]

Apples and Oranges. In the case of "Game of Thrones", the author would indeed be harming the story by rushing it. But HERE, the story isn't what's taking so long.

You literally stated that they should do the main chapters like they do the special chapters, with inferior artists and inferior art. How is that not comparable...? In both cases, the final product is harmed because one or more elements of it were rushed. In this case it would be the artwork. Are you that impatient that you want the final product to be inferior in quality so that you wait less? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I think you're missing my point. I never complained about the pacing before until the story (or lack there of) got boring. I used to be excited for the next pages and while sure I wanted more to come out quicker, but I was so invested that I was fine with waiting. Now a days the plot is going nowhere so my problem is not with "when is the next page coming of the fight" It's "When is the next plot page coming" And instead of waiting a few days for a new page to extend the plot, I'm waiting months as nothing we are learning is extending the plot, it's just padding and filler with mindless fights. If the pages became more plot focused on things like the Ginyu conundrum and XXI, I'd be happy to wait.

I didn't miss anything. When you were excited for new pages, there was more going on in terms of development of the story/tournament/dangers and the release schedule of the main chapters was faster. Now, the tournament is on a phase of less interesting fights and the release schedule of the main chapters is slower. You are simply impatient about the release schedule being slower and about the less interesting phase of the tournament.

[Fionordequester]

]You literally stated that they should do the main chapters like they do the special chapters, with inferior artists and inferior art. How is that not comparable...? In both cases, the final product is harmed because one or more elements of it were rushed. In this case it would be the artwork. Are you that impatient that you want the final product to be inferior in quality so that you wait less? That doesn't make any sense to me.

The artwork is coming at the cost of the story itself though. With the way this is being released, it would be like if I got five pages of Game of Thrones...then had to wait two days...then got five more pages...then had to wait three more days...got five more pages...then had to wait two more days...then got my five pages before suddenly, the author announces (and bare with me here, I don't watch much Game of Thrones)..."hey! That Greyjoy guy who got his extremities cut off by that one weirdo? Guess what? I'm just going to put the whole story on hold, and write an entire short story talking all about his life in...wherever he got educated!".

1-2 months pass...then the author decides "actually, you know what would be REALLY cool? How about we spend an entire short story talking about how all the dragons lived, 100 years before they ever met that one girl whose going around toppling kingdoms?" And then the cycle continues anew for that...

Finally, we're back to the main storyline...and we go back to five pages per day. And, if we're lucky, we might maybe finish a whole chapter by the time two months pass...

You get my point, don't you? It's like trying to watch a Nostalgia Critic or SpoonyOne review if the video kept on having to buffer every three seconds. Whatever joke they're trying to tell has all of it's punch taken out of it because all of the energy the comedian puts into the joke just...stops, and takes you out of the moment. Now imagine them having that problem when they COULD easily fix that if they would only shoot their review at 360p quality instead of 1080p quality.

Basically, to me, having Asura-level artwork is cool...but not at all necessary. At least for anything that's not, say, a really important fight scene. It's an extra frill that should simply be the cherry on top of something that is already good. And yes, I do believe that, aside from the pacing issues and the really bad translation, this is actually a good story with many interesting ideas. Which is why it's grating to have it be put on hold just for something that really doesn't matter all that much anyways.

[rereboy]

The artwork is coming at the cost of the story itself though. With the way this is being released, it would be like if I got five pages of Game of Thrones...then had to wait two days...then got five more pages...then had to wait three more days...got five more pages...then had to wait two more days...then got my five pages before suddenly, the author announces (and bare with me here, I don't watch much Game of Thrones)..."hey! That Greyjoy guy who got his extremities cut off by that one weirdo? Guess what? I'm just going to put the whole story on hold, and write an entire short story talking all about his life in...wherever he got educated!".

1-2 months pass...then the author decides "actually, you know what would be REALLY cool? How about we spend an entire short story talking about how all the dragons lived, 100 years before they ever met that one girl whose going around toppling kingdoms?" And then the cycle continues anew for that...

Finally, we're back to the main storyline...and we go back to five pages per day. And, if we're lucky, we might maybe finish a whole chapter by the time two months pass...

You get my point, don't you? It's like trying to watch a Nostalgia Critic or SpoonyOne review if the video kept on having to buffer every three seconds. Whatever joke they're trying to tell has all of it's punch taken out of it because all of the energy the comedian puts into the joke just...stops, and takes you out of the moment. Now imagine them having that problem when they COULD easily fix that if they would only shoot their review at 360p quality instead of 1080p quality.

Basically, to me, having Asura-level artwork is cool...but not at all necessary. At least for anything that's not, say, a really important fight scene. It's an extra frill that should simply be the cherry on top of something that is already good. And yes, I do believe that, aside from the pacing issues and the really bad translation, this is actually a good story with many interesting ideas.

No, its not. The story itself is independent of the release schedule issues just like the story of Game of Thrones is independent of how long it takes to release new stuff because, when both are read back to back, there are no release schedule issues within the story itself.

You are confusing the story itself with the release schedule when the story exists independently from the issues of the release schedule.

If you don't like the release schedule, like it has been suggested, you have a easy solution. You just have to stop following the comic until a significant portion, like an entire chapter or several of them, are completed. It might not be the ideal solution, since ideally you would prefer a faster release, but it completely negates any problem that you might have with the fact that only a small portion of it is released at a time.

All your problems boil down to impatience. You don't want to stop following the comic and only check it out when a significant portion is completed because you are too impatient to wait for it, but you also don't like reading small portions at a time, so you get stuck in a uncomfortable position and you begin to think that its the comic's fault so the comic must change, even if it has to sacrifice quality for it to happen. How is that logical...?

[Fionordequester]

No, its not. The story itself is independent of the release schedule issues just like the story of Game of Thrones is independent of how long it takes to release new stuff because, when both are read back to back, there are no release schedule issues within the story itself.

You are confusing the story itself with the release schedule when the story exists independently from the issues of the release schedule.

That's assuming Salagir actually finishes the story. You know that, right?

[dbzfan7]

I didn't miss anything. When you were excited for new pages, there was more going on in terms of development of the story/tournament/dangers and the release schedule of the main chapters was faster. Now, the tournament is on a phase of less interesting fights and the release schedule of the main chapters is slower. You are simply impatient about the release schedule being slower and about the less interesting phase of the tournament.

Pretty much yeah. My impatience comes from lack of good story telling. When I was interested. The main story should keep us interested with it's mystery plot lines and some what if fights, and the specials should have interesting back story. Instead neither of those are met. We have obvious winners for the fights, which make em boring and they use that instead of story telling. And with specials we mostly have villains kill everyone and nothing interesting learned.

[rereboy]

No, its not. The story itself is independent of the release schedule issues just like the story of Game of Thrones is independent of how long it takes to release new stuff because, when both are read back to back, there are no release schedule issues within the story itself.

You are confusing the story itself with the release schedule when the story exists independently from the issues of the release schedule.

That's assuming Salagir actually finishes the story. You know that, right?

An unfinished story can happen no matter how fast it was being released due to a multitude of reasons, and almost all of those reasons have nothing to do with how fast the release schedule was. So, trying to rush it because of the fear that it might be left unfinished doesn't make any sense.

You are not only being impatient, you are also trying to control the uncontrollable (the future) out of fear and willing to sacrifice the quality of the manga because of that impatience and fear.

Pretty much yeah. My impatience comes from lack of good story telling. When I was interested. The main story should keep us interested with it's mystery plot lines and some what if fights, and the specials should have interesting back story. Instead neither of those are met. We have obvious winners for the fights, which make em boring and they use that instead of story telling. And with specials we mostly have villains kill everyone and nothing interesting learned.

Every main fight has been interesting, even if many were predicable in regards to the winner. The specials were never meant to be anything other than filler chapters created to stall for time with some tidbits from the various universes. Your problem is mainly your impatience. Things aren't as fast and as interesting as they were before so you just want to complain because you don't have the patience to wait and see what will come after this current phase.

[FoolsGil]

That was a great try for Tenshinhan. My bet is, if Tenshinhan doesn't give up then and there, he's going to use the remaining time to power a Spirit Bomb.

[Fionordequester]

An unfinished story can happen no matter how fast it was being released due to a multitude of reasons, and almost all of those reasons have nothing to do with how fast the release schedule was. So, trying to rush it because of the fear that it might be left unfinished doesn't make any sense.

You are not only being impatient, you are also trying to control the uncontrollable (the future) out of fear and willing to sacrifice the quality of the manga because of that impatience and fear.

I don't believe my fears are unreasonable though, and I say that as someone who's a bit of an artist himself (I make Let's Plays of video games, and I also am working on a series of reviews for each Episode of Dragon Ball I watch). At least for me, even when I'm initially excited about a project, I start to get bored with it eventually, and if it takes me too long, or the work starts to become too much for me to handle, there's a very real danger where I'll get into a habit of procrastination, until finally, I find myself not even working on it anymore. I once did a series of fairly popular reviews on Avatar: The Last Airbender, and got through the whole 1st Season before deciding I wanted to do video reviews...

Except, I tried to do that, and I spent a whole month working with a very laggy, faulty Windows Movie Maker program, nitpicking how my voice sounded, trying to edit together footage, etc, etc. Basically, I was trying to be at least somewhat close to the quality of the Nostalga Critic or the SpoonyOne, despite this being my very first video review.

Then, sometime at the end of the month, before I had finished that review for one episode, I just...got burnt out. I didn't even know it consciously at the time, but it was too much. It was too much work for me to do, but because I let my OCD (yes, I have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) run things, and wasn't satisfied with just leaving things at a text review...my series of reviews died before I could ever even make it past the first episode of Season 2...

Now, granted, I also struggle with laziness, and I WAS trying to take too big of a leap for my first time. So, I had other problems as well.

But then I look at what Salagir does, (providing translations for multiple different languages, hiring artists to do Akira Toriyama level artwork, trying to pump something out four times a week, etc...), and then I look at the sluggish pace...and it all screams of someone trying to measure up to standards they can't possibly meet (hence, why the constant delays are happening). It's as my Dad says, "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good". That's a principle I use to counter my own OCD sometimes, and I think it's an important one for artists to consider...

But, I could just be rambling on about nothing. After all, me and Salagir are probably two very different people. And maybe, subconsciously, I'm only making excuses for my own weaknesses. That's always a possibility. But, still, I get an uneasy feeling about the prospects of this fanfic continuing for long the way things are going. And I don't think this release schedule functions well enough for the readers, hence why I brought all this up in the first place.

EDIT: I know I'm kind of going off on a tangent, and I do realize that none of that necessarily ties back into the story itself, but...I dunno. I'm having a hard time trying to explain what I mean. Although, I will say that if Salagir gets too stressed trying to juggle all the things he's juggling now, and starts to not find joy in his story because of it...that IS indeed something that's going to affect the writing.

EDIT2: Ah, right, I get it! I know what I'm trying to say! I'm afraid that by not lowering his standards, Salagir is going to turn the story into something he finds unpleasant to work on, therefore, harming the story in addition to leaving him with a somewhat empty feeling in his heart...like how I sometimes feel about that review series I did so long ago. And then EVERYBODY loses!

[rereboy]

But then I look at what Salagir does, (providing translations for multiple different languages, hiring artists to do Akira Toriyama level artwork, trying to pump something out four times a week, etc...), and then I look at the sluggish pace...and it all screams of someone trying to measure up to standards they can't possibly meet (hence, why the constant delays are happening). It's as my Dad says, "don't let perfect be the enemy of the good". That's a principle I use to counter my own OCD sometimes, and I think it's an important one for artists to consider...

Dude, all that Salagir does is maintain the website and write the story, and the main points of the story are already basically written because its a story that was thought up several years ago, all that is left are details. The translations are made by volunteers that they picked, like myself, on their website and pasted on the pages by other people.

What takes so long is, quite literally, the main artist drawing the pages in his FREE time. That's all.

EDIT2: Ah, right, I get it! I know what I'm trying to say! I'm afraid that by not lowering his standards, Salagir is going to turn the story into something he finds unpleasant to work on, therefore, harming the story in addition to leaving him with a somewhat empty feeling in his heart...like how I sometimes feel about that review series I did so long ago. And then EVERYBODY loses!

Salagir losing interest in DBM can happen whether he lowers his standards or not. Its pointless to undermine the quality of product on purpose due to the fear of something that we have no idea if it will happen, and that can happen no matter what Salagir or anyone else does.

[Fionordequester]

Dude, all that Salagir does is maintain the website and write the story, and the main points of the story are already basically written because its a story that was thought up several years ago, all that is left are details. The translations are made by volunteers that they picked, like myself, on their website and pasted on the pages by other people.

What takes so long is, quite literally, the main artist drawing the pages in his FREE time. That's all.

...Hmm...well gosh, when you put it like that...so you're saying that Salagir doesn't have a very hard job?

Salagir losing interest in DBM can happen whether he lowers his standards or not. Its pointless to undermine the quality of product on purpose due to the fear of something that we have no idea if it will happen, and that can happen no matter what Salagir or anyone else does.

I do believe that stressing yourself out a lot to get to that level of quality can increase the chances however. There's no way of predicting whether or not bad things will happen, true, but one can tell what will and will not increase the chances of something bad happening.

[dbzfan7]

Every main fight has been interesting, even if many were predicable in regards to the winner. The specials were never meant to be anything other than filler chapters created to stall for time with some tidbits from the various universes. Your problem is mainly your impatience. Things aren't as fast and as interesting as they were before so you just want to complain because you don't have the patience to wait and see what will come after this current phase.

That's your opinion. Many here will disagree with every main fight being interesting.

The specials are meant to give us back story too. Not just take up time.

If you want fighting and nothing else...good for you

[Saiga]

That Shenron floatie is ridiculously cute. Anyway, I'm surprised Boo didn't use the counter Mafuba but I guess he wants to screw with Tenshinhan more.

[Insertclevername]

That Shenlong blow up thingie is so Toriyama!