The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
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ZombieVito
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Only AT comments that Bardock never reached Elite (4,000) status.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
According to Vegeta, neither did Goku.Zombie wrote:Only AT comments that Bardock never reached Elite (4,000) status.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Funny. But I'm sure that changed by end of Boo arcKamiccolo9 wrote:According to Vegeta, neither did Goku.Zombie wrote:Only AT comments that Bardock never reached Elite (4,000) status.
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The Monkey King
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Jaco vs 21st BT Goku.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Goku wasn't promoted because the Saiyans were destroyed at that point. But Toriyama was asked about Bardock's battle power, and his answer was that he wasn't a mid-class warrior, but he was one of the strongest low-class warriors. So, Bardock is weaker than Nappa.Kamiccolo9 wrote:According to Vegeta, neither did Goku.Zombie wrote:Only AT comments that Bardock never reached Elite (4,000) status.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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KentalSSJ6
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Tullece VS The Saiyan Gauntlet. Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Bardock, and King Vegeta.
No fruit and Oozaru forms allowed.
No fruit and Oozaru forms allowed.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Who says Bardock had time to be promoted? If there's some kind of official ceremony that graduates a Saiyan from being low-class to elite, then if you follow the events of the special, Bardock just never did it. I'm not seeing any kind of contradiction here.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Goku wasn't promoted because the Saiyans were destroyed at that point. But Toriyama was asked about Bardock's battle power, and his answer was that he wasn't a mid-class warrior, but he was one of the strongest low-class warriors. So, Bardock is weaker than Nappa.Kamiccolo9 wrote:According to Vegeta, neither did Goku.Zombie wrote:Only AT comments that Bardock never reached Elite (4,000) status.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Again, Toriyama said this not to inform us about his warrior status, he informed us about to get an idea about how strong Bardock was, since he was asked about his battle power and he didn't have a number in his mind. If Bardock was at 10.000 in Toriyama's mind, then he would have said that Bardock was at mid-class or elite level, but never got the chance to get a promotion.Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says Bardock had time to be promoted? If there's some kind of official ceremony that graduates a Saiyan from being low-class to elite, then if you follow the events of the special, Bardock just never did it. I'm not seeing any kind of contradiction here.
Besides, Dragon Ball Minus heavily contradicts the TV Special so...
Tullece destroys them all. He was far stronger than Piccolo, who was at 18.000, and the strongest of the Saiyans is Vegeta, also at 18.000.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Tullece VS The Saiyan Gauntlet. Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Bardock, and King Vegeta.
No fruit and Oozaru forms allowed.
Jaco wins. Goku was very weak by Saiyan standards at that point.The Monkey King wrote:Jaco vs 21st BT Goku.
Last edited by DBZGTKOSDH on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
He stomps them all. Tullece's PL is around 30,000 while the next strongest (Vegeta) is 18,000. They all end up with their faces in the ground.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Tullece VS The Saiyan Gauntlet. Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Nappa, Raditz, Bardock, and King Vegeta.
No fruit and Oozaru forms allowed.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
So, he just said that Bardock had the strength of a low class Saiyan. Again, Saiyan-Arc Goku was a low class Saiyan. I'm still not seeing where 10 thousand contradicts anything.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Again, Toriyama said this not to inform us about his warrior status, he informed us about to get an idea about how strong Bardock was, since he was asked about his battle power and he didn't have a number in his mind. If Bardock was at 10.000 in Toriyama's mind, then he would have said that Bardock was at mid-class or elite level, but never got the chance to get a promotion.Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says Bardock had time to be promoted? If there's some kind of official ceremony that graduates a Saiyan from being low-class to elite, then if you follow the events of the special, Bardock just never did it. I'm not seeing any kind of contradiction here.
Besides, Dragon Ball Minus heavily contradicts the TV Special so...
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Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Mr.AT said he was strong for a low class but wasn't strong enough for a promotionKamiccolo9 wrote:So, he just said that Bardock had the strength of a low class Saiyan. Again, Saiyan-Arc Goku was a low class Saiyan. I'm still not seeing where 10 thousand contradicts anything.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Again, Toriyama said this not to inform us about his warrior status, he informed us about to get an idea about how strong Bardock was, since he was asked about his battle power and he didn't have a number in his mind. If Bardock was at 10.000 in Toriyama's mind, then he would have said that Bardock was at mid-class or elite level, but never got the chance to get a promotion.Kamiccolo9 wrote:Who says Bardock had time to be promoted? If there's some kind of official ceremony that graduates a Saiyan from being low-class to elite, then if you follow the events of the special, Bardock just never did it. I'm not seeing any kind of contradiction here.
Besides, Dragon Ball Minus heavily contradicts the TV Special so...
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Βut Goku's battle power wasn't in the range of a low-class Saiyan.Kamiccolo9 wrote:So, he just said that Bardock had the strength of a low class Saiyan. Again, Saiyan-Arc Goku was a low class Saiyan. I'm still not seeing where 10 thousand contradicts anything.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Tenshinhan Vs Goku
This is filler Tien who just beat Burter and Jeice, and Goku who just arrived on Namek. No Kaioken allowed here either.
This is filler Tien who just beat Burter and Jeice, and Goku who just arrived on Namek. No Kaioken allowed here either.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Goku didn't need Kaioken to beat Ginyu Force. Goku still wins.Kid Buu wrote:Tenshinhan Vs Goku
This is filler Tenshinhan who just beat Burter and Jeice, and Goku who just arrived on Namek. No Kaioken allowed here either.
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KentalSSJ6
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Well, he didn't need it for Jeice and Burter. Ginyu still gave him a somewhat good fight.TheGmGoken wrote:Goku didn't need Kaioken to beat Ginyu Force. Goku still wins.Kid Buu wrote:Tenshinhan Vs Goku
This is filler Tenshinhan who just beat Burter and Jeice, and Goku who just arrived on Namek. No Kaioken allowed here either.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
That didn't keep Vegeta from referring to him as one though, up until at least the end of the Buu Arc. So, either there is more to it than just battle power, or some official recognition is required to become an elite.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Βut Goku's battle power wasn't in the range of a low-class Saiyan.Kamiccolo9 wrote:So, he just said that Bardock had the strength of a low class Saiyan. Again, Saiyan-Arc Goku was a low class Saiyan. I'm still not seeing where 10 thousand contradicts anything.
Toriyama made one comment, he didn't go into an in-depth discourse on Saiyan class status. I see no reason to discount what we've seen before due to a single comment that doesn't actually contradict anything.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Vegeta also said things like "A low-class shouldn't be that strong!". Toriyama's comment implies that Bardock's BP isn't in that range.Kamiccolo9 wrote:That didn't keep Vegeta from referring to him as one though, up until at least the end of the Buu Arc. So, either there is more to it than just battle power, or some official recognition is required to become an elite.
I think Goku is still stronger. From what I recall, Tenshinhan had an actual (one-sided) fight against Butta & Jheese, but then again, he was split in half.Kid Buu wrote:Tenshinhan Vs Goku
This is filler Tenshinhan who just beat Burter and Jeice, and Goku who just arrived on Namek. No Kaioken allowed here either.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kamiccolo9
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
But after saying that, Vegeta still referred to him as a low-class. If you have to look for implications, then there isn't anything overtly contradicting anything else. As I said before, I see no reason to discount what came before just because of some comment that Toriyama made that doesn't actually cause a contradiction. If you want to, that's fine.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Vegeta also said things like "A low-class shouldn't be that strong!". Toriyama's comment implies that Bardock's BP isn't in that range.Kamiccolo9 wrote:That didn't keep Vegeta from referring to him as one though, up until at least the end of the Buu Arc. So, either there is more to it than just battle power, or some official recognition is required to become an elite.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Because the whole system was defunct at that point, just like Vegeta had stuck as a prince. Goku was implied to be far above the low-class level, but remained a low-class for life because he was never promoted. On the other hand, Bardock was implied to be within the low-class level, not that he never got a chance to get a promotion.Kamiccolo9 wrote:But after saying that, Vegeta still referred to him as a low-class.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Bardock was on Vegeta for at least one month. Plenty of time to get promptedKamiccolo9 wrote:But after saying that, Vegeta still referred to him as a low-class. If you have to look for implications, then there isn't anything overtly contradicting anything else. As I said before, I see no reason to discount what came before just because of some comment that Toriyama made that doesn't actually cause a contradiction. If you want to, that's fine.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Vegeta also said things like "A low-class shouldn't be that strong!". Toriyama's comment implies that Bardock's BP isn't in that range.Kamiccolo9 wrote:That didn't keep Vegeta from referring to him as one though, up until at least the end of the Buu Arc. So, either there is more to it than just battle power, or some official recognition is required to become an elite.