"Jaco the Galactic Patrolman" discussion (incl. "DB Minus")

[Saiga]

Yeah, can't say I'm a big fan of the retcons introduced by Dragon Ball Minus. I don't mind the Bardock special being retconned because I don't like how special that made Bardock, but changing the reason Goku was sent to Earth and making Freeza knowledgeable of Super Saiyan God don't sit right with me. I do like that Freeza actually called the Saiyans back to planet Vegeta, though.

[garnetjester]

About Bardock's saiyan crew being different, his being around with this guy (whom he wasn't even that friendly or familiar with, judging by what's said in DB-) doesn't mean that he's his usual partner or whatever. From what I can tell from Raditz being sent out on a mission with Vegeta, they just probably get sent around to do Freeza's bidding instead of having a crew per se like, say, the Ginew Force. So maybe he did have a closer group of saiyan warriors, and they were murdered by Freeza and this is why he is thinking of them, whether they really are his crew or not . It would make 0 sense for his flashback to be about Gine or his sons because they weren't killed in the same way as his fellow warriors, and he knew by that point that both of his sons would be alright.

[auspx]

Yeah, can't say I'm a big fan of the retcons introduced by Dragon Ball Minus. I don't mind the Bardock special being retconned because I don't like how special that made Bardock, but changing the reason Goku was sent to Earth and making Freeza knowledgeable of Super Saiyan God don't sit right with me. I do like that Freeza actually called the Saiyans back to planet Vegeta, though.

The only way that DB- makes sense is if it happens before the Bardock, The Father of Goku movie. Even then there are still major plot holes. Goku can't be a baby who "was born yesterday" that they talk about in the movie since he's already a 3 year old child. Goku was already secretly sent to Earth so what we see in the end of the movie is no longer canon. Without those parts the rest of the Bardock TV special and the Episode of Bardock can still work. The new timeline would be something like this:

DragonBall-
Bardock TV special (but without baby Goku)
Episode of Bardock

It still doesn't explain how does Raditz know that his little brother was sent to Earth, did Bardock or Gine tell him? And that's a major plot hole.

[garnetjester]

Since Raditz survived, it means he never returned to planet Vegeta in the month that follows after DB- ends and the final saiyan genocide, so he probably never met with Bardock or Gine anyway. They might've told him if they still kept in touch with him while he was away, but it doesn't look like it. Also, they didn't even know if Kakarotto was going to make it to Earth alive because the Galaxy Patrol noticed his pod being launched.

I guess Vegeta and co. could've tracked where his space pod ended up landing somehow, since it wasn't completely broken when it did.

[Low Tone G]

Yeah, can't say I'm a big fan of the retcons introduced by Dragon Ball Minus. I don't mind the Bardock special being retconned because I don't like how special that made Bardock, but changing the reason Goku was sent to Earth and making Freeza knowledgeable of Super Saiyan God don't sit right with me. I do like that Freeza actually called the Saiyans back to planet Vegeta, though.

The only way that DB- makes sense is if it happens before the Bardock, The Father of Goku movie. Even then there are still major plot holes. Goku can't be a baby who "was born yesterday" that they talk about in the movie since he's already a 3 year old child. Goku was already secretly sent to Earth so what we see in the end of the movie is no longer canon. Without those parts the rest of the Bardock TV special and the Episode of Bardock can still work. The new timeline would be something like this:

DragonBall-
Bardock TV special (but without baby Goku)
Episode of Bardock

It still doesn't explain how does Raditz know that his little brother was sent to Earth, did Bardock or Gine tell him? And that's a major plot hole.

There is 1 month 'till planet Vegeta's destruction. It was shown that Gine and Bardock do possess a very developed sense of family, so they love their children. There was a luck for Raditz to be with Prince Vegeta, so they ultimately were forgiven by Freeza to not come back to the planet. So Bardock could tell Raditz via scouter to stay on that planet for longer to avoid his elder son's death, and could tell about his younger brother's depature for Earth. As for Nappa, it seems very likely that he wasn't shown but was be with Vegeta and Raditz on same planet.

But I don't like these vague things related to Freeza and to know both about the Legend of Super Saiyan AND Super Saiyan God.

It seems possible that Bardock's comerade on that planet it's a member from his crew, so Torra and Co. can be also present somewhere in Toriyama's DB- but they didn't make an appearence.

But I'm not safisfied quite a bit with this work of Toriyama. He wouldn't have needed to create that plotholes, as he did liked the Badock TV special.

[Malik_DBNA]

This page is suppossedly FOR the DB Minus manga, which shows Bardock BEFORE Freeza destroys the Planet. Is this legit? And, if so, does it possibly explain more?

[garnetjester]

That looks like a doujinshi. It's just Gine telling Bardock that standing up against Freeza when it's just the 2 of them isn't a good idea and they should flee, and Bardock telling her that if they don't do it nobody else will. (or something along those lines, my japanese is less than perfect)

I think that while Toriyama liked the TV special, he felt it was too dark, so he probably wanted to tell a different story.

When DB- was just announced I had mixed feelings about it, because I didn't like the idea of Goku's mom being a ~special snowflake~ peaceful saiyan, but actually reading the comic I didn't get any of those vibes from anyone. Actually, the fact that we get to see an actual village somewhat was something I liked, instead of the caveman vibe they gave off in the TV special. I think this addition makes the saiyans as a race more nuanced.

[MagicBox]

That shot of Gine crying is just not something a guy like Toriyama is going to draw. Happy and goofy, remember?

Minus seems to have more drama than we were expecting anyway. I'm looking forward to being able to read it by this time tomorrow.

[Makaioshin]

This page is suppossedly FOR the DB Minus manga, which shows Bardock BEFORE Freeza destroys the Planet. Is this legit? And, if so, does it possibly explain more?

That is fanart of Gine appearing in the scenario presented in the TV special.

My expectations have died down a bit but I'm still excited about reading this tomorrow.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

About Raditz knowing about Goku, we've seen that the Saiyans can communicate through their scouters, so maybe he was told by Bardock or Gine that Goku was sent on Earth for a mission as a lie.

[TKA]

Mixed feelings. On one hand, glad this de-specials Bardock.

On the other, this completely contradicts everything we thought we knew about Dragonball (Planet Vegeta looking like a dump, 3 year old Goku, Bardock's entire character being different, Frieza disregarding Super Saiyan as nothing but a legend, among other things).

Eh, I'll just use this as "manga canon."

[garnetjester]

Well, now that there's a summary up there in the front page of the site, we can tell that apparently Bardock and/or Gine did communicate to Raditz that they had sent Kakarotto away to the Earth, so that's one less plothole to deal with

[FortuneSSJ]

Already saw most of the pages (raw version) and this Dragon ball Minus is showing some little details that the OVA missed:
- Gine is revealed
- Raditz isnt forgotten (but seems like Nappa is?!)
- Vegeta keeps his hairstyle. Full blooded saiyans are supposed to have the same hairstyle until the end (unless they cut it) and anime Kid Vegeta has a diferent one (and I dont see how he cut it to be like that).

And about Freeza. Seems like he knew...
This guy is my favourite villain ever,from any show, and this idea of him knowing the existence of super saiyan god makes him even more interesting.

I still love the OVA though.Toei did an awesome job and I dont see any reason to be ignored now.
I think the events even pick up after this chapter. So Toriyama only changed how Goku was sent to earth?!

[Marco Polo]

Kinda strange that the Saiyans are a warrior race and don't get old until very late in their lifespan, yet baby Kakarot must spend at least 3 years in an incubator before being ready to fight.

Also, in the end I guess there was never any real danger of Jaco killing Kakarot, since Kakarot was not sent to Earth to destroy it anyway.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Also, in the end I guess there was never any real danger of Jaco killing Kakarot, since Kakarot was not sent to Earth to destroy it anyway.

Since Bardock & Gine informed Raditz about Goku, it seems that the sent him there not only to save him, but also to destroy the planet. Except if they lied to Raditz, or Raditz came to his own conclusions after learning about Goku being on Earth.

[Bullza]

I'm not sure why so many people are getting upset that this contradicts the TV special.

Me either, the Bardock special was never canon in anyway to begin with. Same as Episode of Bardock.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

So, does that mean Bardock is a pure Saiyan? Like, if he aims to try to become a Super Saiyan God, would he be able to achieve that?

Also, one more thing. You guys seem to be forgetting that Toriyama was the one who used Bardock TV Special to draw a panel showing the same scene that Bardock was getting killed by Freeza.

[MagicBox]

Also, one more thing. You guys seem to be forgetting that Toriyama was the one who used Bardock TV Special to draw a panel showing the same scene that Bardock was getting killed by Freeza.

As mentioned on the previous page, the fact that Toriyama drew Burdock in two manga panels doesn't make the whole TV special "canon." It makes those two panels "canon." And like I said, all we know from those two panels is that Burdock 1.) confronts Freeza in space with damaged armor and a headband, 2.) that he seems to have been blown up by Freeza in his first form, and 3.) that he "resisted to the very end." All of that is still very much possible now that Dragon Ball Minus exists. Nothing is contradicted.

[Gyt Kaliba]

It's not surprising that a lot of people are having trouble wrapping their minds around the changes this brings to the table, even if they don't feel it's 'ruined' anything like others do. The Bardock TV special originally aired in 1990, 24 years ago. In all that time, the main things that we've had come up around the special (ignoring Episode of Bardock which is it's own animal) hasn't really been contested. Toriyama liked the special, enough so that he incorporated Bardock into the manga. And there was nothing in the manga until now to make us have any reason to believe Goku wasn't actually a baby when he was sent to Earth. So for 24 years, there's been this pretty clear image of how things probably happened, even if it wasn't really in the manga, only for us now to find out that that wasn't the case.

It's no wonder it's a little jarring, IMO. It is to me too, and I kind of like what I'm hearing about Minus.

[Chuquita]

I feel like I'm OK with replacing the previous two Bardock specials with Minus in my head-canon. The "almost 3 years later than you thought" bit, I used to draw comics about child Vegeta, teenaged Raditz, and toddler Kakarrotto stories on their homeplanet and I fudged the year Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta by a couple years on purpose so I could have Kakarrotto in the stories so I'm not really all that thrown by the year switch. If anything, losing "I can see the future!!" Bardock for "Clever-detective Bardock" is the biggest "huh, that's different" for me. I don't mind it though; (I'd honestly watch a spinoff Detective Bardock series where he and Gine solve crimes part-time. I don't know why, I just like the idea.) I'm fine with Freeza name-dropping "super saiyajin god" because a little over a year on and ssjg Gokû is still adorable to look at imo. :3
The saiyajin village is something that's just interesting to look at, because you don't really get to see that much of it in the first Bardock special. Also the contrast between how futuristic their ships look and how rudimentary their cars look is interesting. And I can totally reconcile those two manga panels from Z with "well, he's got more than one pair of armor" and "you could probably come up with a whole different explanation for that bandana. It may not even be bloody, or red, it might just be a bandana.".