"Jaco the Galactic Patrolman" discussion (incl. "DB Minus")

[Flame Dragon]

Also, it also makes a plothole in that the manga and anime show Grandpa Gohan finding Goku as a baby, and now he's 3 years old.

When does the manga show this, exactly?

He needs to make an official timeline with what is canon and what is not.

There is absolutely zero need for Toriyama, Shueisha, or Toei to do that.

I'm not going to criticize anyone's honest opinion, and I do like that we're able to discuss this without any serious arguments. I am a tad surprised that this is the thing that makes certain fans say "enough is enough," though. The whole chapter itself seems to be intended as a mere afterthought for both Jaco and Dragon Ball. Perhaps that's why people are getting so upset? Because of such a "big" prequel being released as a "Oh yeah, this happened" bonus feature?

I didn't want to sound angry or pissed, or offend anyone. I'm just annoyed because i feel this retconned so many things that now it will have another dividing effect on the fanbase.
Now Goku was three years old and wore Saiyan Armor on his arrival on Earth.
So what now? Everybody that saw this scene from the anime is wrong?

What do we do now? Change all anime versions to follow the retcon? Kinda dumb especially since DB Kai, the version that was SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW THE MANGA, already covered this scene.
So now if a fan says "this is how Goku was born", now he can get told there are two versions of the Bardock special that are completely different, and that the anime version that he watched was false.
Wouldn't that fan feel bad for discovering this?

Especially since Toriyama acknowledged the Bardock special numerous times and was considered pretty much canon, who s in the right now? Who's wrong? Who knows.

The problem is this will create even more of a gap between manga and anime fans, and even from the manga side of canon, this special really needs to be stretched to fit into the manga continuity.

And all of his could have been avoided if this was written more carefully and placed before the Bardock special and after EoB.
But who cares about that? Give me your money while i enjoy the flame wars between anime and manga fans again.

Meh... i'm not against retcons, the problem is that this particular one was... POINTLESS. It just created confusion without really making any progress backstory wise.

PS: Also Superman ripoff is a ripoff.

[auspx]

What Raditz tells Goku when they meet, about Goku's "mission" to kill the Earthlings and conquer the planet, doesn't make much sense now,does it?

Roshi is talking about baby Goku being discovered in the woods by Grandpa Gohan, not a 3 year old toddler in a suit of space armor. To be fair, it would be pretty stupid to send a baby to invade a planet. Toriyama should have done a better job explaining who Goku is, but he should have done it 25 years ago.

I can understand why fans are upset about DragonBall Minus. To see Akira Toriyama rejecting anime only filler is one thing. But to see Toriyama contradicting his own manga makes no sense at all.

[Luso Saiyan]

Now Goku was three years old and wore Saiyan Armor on his arrival on Earth.
So what now? Everybody that saw this scene from the anime is wrong?

Define 'wrong'. And there are many differences between the manga and the anime, this is just another one.

What do we do now?

The same thing "we" have always done.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Roshi is talking about baby Goku being discovered in the woods by Grandpa Gohan, not a 3 year old toddler in a suit of space armor.

That's the thing though - nothing in Roshi's dialogue really disputes this new chain of events either. There is a difference between a newborn and a three year old, yes, but they're both still babies. And nothing is said as to whether the baby with a tail had armor or didn't. It can still fit.

[auspx]

Roshi is talking about baby Goku being discovered in the woods by Grandpa Gohan, not a 3 year old toddler in a suit of space armor.

That's the thing though - nothing in Roshi's dialogue really disputes this new chain of events either. There is a difference between a newborn and a three year old, yes, but they're both still babies. And nothing is said as to whether the baby with a tail had armor or didn't. It can still fit.

That's not a baby no matter how we look at it. And he can't be "really weak with a PL of only 2" if he is already "strong" and "dangerous" although to be fair we have no idea how strong baby Goku was in the manga. They never talked about it.

It doesn't even make sense now for Goku to have amnesia after his head injury, what exactly did his saiyan parents teach him? Nothing. He was sleeping in an incubator, they woke him up, put him in a spaceship, and send him to Earth. The entire Goku vs Raditz battle is now very tragic and pointless. Raditz is angry at Goku for not doing something that Goku was never supposed to do in the first place. The two brothers fight and lose their lives for nothing.

[Low Tone G]

So there is a serious inconsistence with his own original manga too.

In the manga is stated that Goku bumped his head and lost memories and forgot about his mission to erase the people on the Earth, while in Dragon Ball Minus he had not even had any thoughts about a mission and was just saved by his parents from death.

The both can true in the same time if Bardock lied to his elder son about Kakarotto that he was sent to conquer a planet with weak inhabitants on it instead of being saved. In DB- it was shown that Raditz was also a cruel warrior as he ran around with Prince Vegeta.

[VegettoEX]

The issue from Viz is live...!

They "corrected" the "Planet Freeza" to "Planet Vegeta" thingie and re-wrote Toriyama's introductory note as if he didn't write it himself. Lots more notes on our documentation page.

[Kamiccolo9]

Do we know anything about this "Galactic King?"

[medama_oyaji]

Well, I just read DB Minus in Viz's Jump... What a relief to be able to check this thread again, after having to avoid it for about a week! I'm having trouble reading through everyone's thoughts due to the site's current issues, but I wanted to post my thoughts. Sorry if it doesn't add much to what is already being discussed!

I am sad to say that I am not a fan of the changes made to Goku's history. I am a big Toriyama fan, and I love his current work. I do not mind that he's a little burnt out on fighting after DB, because I love Dr. Slump and his humorous, lighter work. However, I really dislike the change that Goku was sent to Earth in order to save him from Freeza. It destroys the very irony of his character that makes his origin interesting. What we had understood until now is that he was sent to Earth in order to conquer or destroy it and then he becomes it's savior. What a shame!

The Jaco lead-in at the end made me laugh though Toriyama's still knocking it out of the park with that character.

[VegettoEX]

Do we know anything about this "Galactic King?"

Just what we already learned about in the third chapter of Jaco (that the patrol works directly under his orders).

[Mewzard]

Whether he arrived on Earth as a newborn or as a three year old, he'd still be a baby, so that's not contradicted. His behavior is still wild (likely due to instincts and a lack of being raised at all), so that's not an issue.

Now, for what Raditz said? Well, in Dragon Ball Minus, they did mention babies being sent to planets. Perhaps Raditz simply assumed he was on a mission since he had been sent to Earth.

Honestly, this set up makes sense for so many Saiyans dying. What would be the odds normally of all but four of a race that goes around conquering planets being on their home planet at the same time? But, if Freeza had them all come to planet Vegeta at the same time, it makes more sense. Vegeta chooses to ignore it due to his rank, keeping Raditz with him, Nappa might have been far enough away to not make it to Vegeta in time, and Goku was sent to Earth before it happened (insert comments about Tarble and the assorted movie/filler/Neko Majin Saiyans here).

Super Saiyan God gets a small mention, though Freeza doesn't want any kind of Super Saiyan of course (last thing he needs is a race full of people that might be able to kill him).

I do find it amusing though that Goku's origin is now even more in line with Superman's origin (Father *with mother in tow* sends Son to Earth just before the destruction of their planet that only they know about/see coming...Toriyama missed the perfect chance to make Bardock a brilliant scientist).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Guys, Goku was obviously sent to Earth both to be saved and to destroy it. I think it's very obvious given to what we know.

And as for the baby Goku problem, a 3-year-old is very close to a baby, and Kame-sennin never saw Goku.

[Ajay]

Jeez, just wrapped up Dragon Ball Minus. That was...abysmal.

It just felt like a lazily written advertisement for Jaco, Battle of Gods and maybe even Episode of Bardock.

I totally get that's it's just a short extra chapter but when you're messing with something as historical as Dragon Ball, I feel like you should at least make an effort to develop your new characters and take the time to write dialogue that actually sounds like it belongs in the franchise and not some pre-school fan fiction. Perhaps that's a translation issue but even in terms of structure and basic logic, it was heavily flawed.

I don't even know what to say, that was just awful. I didn't enjoy Jaco that much but christ, it was a heck of a lot better than that garbage.

If it weren't for Toriyama's contributions to Battle of Gods, I would feel totally comfortable saying that he doesn't know what he's doing anymore.

[Marco Polo]

Guys, Goku was obviously sent to Earth both to be saved and to destroy it. I think it's very obvious given to what we know.

And as for the baby Goku problem, a 3-year-old is very close to a baby, and Kame-sennin never saw Goku.

Not to mention Kame-sennin is over 300 years old. Three years is meaningless to him.

[Makaioshin]

Read it as soon as it came out. It is always nice to see more Dragon Ball characters drawn by Toriyama. I did not care too much for Gine's design but his Bardock and Freeza hold up well. I don't think Dragon Ball Minus is really comparable to the Bardock TV special. It is not a story that stands on its own. It is an extra chapter of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman that reaffirms that story's connection to DB while giving us some context on Jaco's mission.

Also Viz handled the digital distribution of this series wonderfully.

Guys, Goku was obviously sent to Earth both to be saved and to destroy it. I think it's very obvious given to what we know.

This was what I was thinking. He is still an "infiltrator baby."

[Luso Saiyan]

Guys, Goku was obviously sent to Earth both to be saved and to destroy it. I think it's very obvious given to what we know.

Per Minus, he definitely wasn't sent to Earth to destroy it (otherwise why tell him to avoid transforming into an Oozaru?), but they probably told that to Raditz in order to avoid any suspicion from Freeza.

[JeffJarrett]

Vegeta saved because of not following orders also contradicts what was said by Dodoria or Frieza in the manga: Frieza wanting to keep Prince Vegeta because he was a strong warrior and, so, destroying Planet Vegeta while Prince Vegeta wasn't there.

[Ryuman]

Vegeta saved because of not following orders also contradicts what was said by Dodoria or Freeza in the manga: Freeza wanting to keep Prince Vegeta because he was a strong warrior and, so, destroying Planet Vegeta while Prince Vegeta wasn't there.

They would've noticed the prince missing sooner or later. They could've still developed that train of thought.

[FortuneSSJ]

This didn't live up to the hype.
It was funny but I wont take it serious. The only thing that matters to me is Gine character and Freeza knowing about the SSJG since the beginning.
If It isnt broken, dont fix it.

Now, someone just ask Tori if Gine died back then too.

[B]

Before I read DB-, do I need Jaco first? I probably need to read Jaco first, since it's in Jaco's tankoubon, right?