"Jaco the Galactic Patrolman" discussion (incl. "DB Minus")

[Mewzard]

Episode of Bardock would be implied not to count since it is a continuation of the TV Special, but I suppose it doesn't have to be removed. The only real issue that could remove it is the content with Bardock's TV Special team.

DBO has baby arriving in AGE 737, so it's out.

I suppose if Toriyama really did like what he came up with, he could just take what he wanted from the game and fix the timeline issues, but yeah, I understand what you mean. Thanks for checking those for me.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, DBO is a canceled project that never made it to Japan, so it's gonna be ignored from now on... But I'll just retcon the contradictions in my head canon, and fit DBO in the manga timeline.

As for the TV Special, I'll use it as a reference to tie-in DB- & the manga flashback, meaning that some similar events from the special happened to the manga timeline. And EoB as it is follows it for me.

[Luso Saiyan]

Outside of drawing a shot of Bardock and having him killed by Freeza, nothing else of the special was used in the manga, so he was free to do whatever he wanted with it. It's his story. Hell, if you want to complain about this, why not criticize Toei from completely changing Trunks' Origin from the manga version?

What?! When did I claim that Toriyama is not free to do whatever he wants with his story? All I'm saying is that Minus contradicts the TV special (and vice versa), not Episode of Bardock.

The Barduck special still exists if you want to watch it, it just doesn't gel with the continuity that Toriyama is establishing post-Original manga.

Again, when did I ever argue that?

[RandomGuy96]

Well, DBO is a canceled project that never made it to Japan, so it's gonna be ignored from now on... But I'll just retcon the contradictions in my head canon, and fit DBO in the manga timeline.

As for the TV Special, I'll use it as a reference to tie-in DB- & the manga flashback, meaning that some similar events from the special happened to the manga timeline. And EoB as it is follows it for me.

EOB actually can't be in the manga's timeline, both because the destruction of planet Vegeta is different and because of the way time travel works in this series.

IMO it is an alternate timeline as a result of weird dimensional fuckery. In the unaltered timeline, Chilled and co conquered the planet and sold it to the Tuffles.

[MagicBox]

On the rare occasions when I decide to pay attention to "Episode of Burdock," I just interpret the whole thing as a dream. As Burdock's getting blown away by Freeza's blast, he has one final vision: the first Super Saiyan transformation. Only, instead of seeing the actual Saiyan who did it, the story is told through Burdock's eyes. Then, he burns like a crisp as Planet Vegeta is destroyed. Bye-bye.

I interpret it this way because it's the only way I can stomach "Episode of Burdock" without getting annoyed.

Some people have already mentioned this, but after these past few years... I'm done with Burdock. Like, forever. I enjoyed Minus for what it was, but I hope the creative minds at Toei, Shueisha, Dimps, Namco Bandai, etc. all realize that we need to move on.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Per Minus, he definitely wasn't sent to Earth to destroy it (otherwise why tell him to avoid transforming into an Oozaru?), but they probably told that to Raditz in order to avoid any suspicion from Freeza.

Gine said that she doesn't want to send Goku as an infiltration baby, and Bardock says that it's for his safety. Meaning that they sent him to destroy the Earth to save him. When they told Raditz, they apparently didn't mention to him the "save him" part.

As for why they told him not to look at the moon, they told him that most likely so that he will be careful not to lose control of himself.

Vegeta saved because of not following orders also contradicts what was said by Dodoria or Freeza in the manga: Freeza wanting to keep Prince Vegeta because he was a strong warrior and, so, destroying Planet Vegeta while Prince Vegeta wasn't there.

We don't know what Freeza would do if Vegeta had returned to the planet.

EOB actually can't be in the manga's timeline, both because the destruction of planet Vegeta is different and because of the way time travel works in this series.

Bardock's appearance also contradicts the manga (his armor was broken in the manga, but not in EoB) , so I'll just take it as a retcon (it's not important anyway).

As for time traveling, what's the issue? If Bardock is indeed the legendary Super Saiyan, then that means that the Bardock had time traveled again from a different timeline at least once before.

[auspx]

Even if Goku wasn't given a mission to conquer Earth, that's what was ultimately going to happen. Saiyans are a warrior race; Kakarrotto was going to grow up to be a very, very violent person. He was a very real threat to the planet. It's outright stated in both Dragon Ball and Jaco: pre-amnesia Goku was a little asshole. The head injury turned him into a nice person. Whether he was given a mission or not, he absolutely needed that bump on the head. It still makes sense.

In anime only filler, yes. But not in the Jaco manga or the original DB manga. All that Roshi says is that baby Goku was "wild" he doesn't say "violent" or "hostile". In the Jaco manga all we see is that little kid Goku had no manners, he ate all the food, and he broke a plate. We don't see him becoming aggressive or attacking Grandpa Gohan.

[Bullza]

I really don't know how you guys can be so confused about what is and isn't canon. It's not as though it's complicated.

DB Minus ---> Jaco ---> Dragon Ball ---> JSAT 2008 Special ----> Battle of Gods

Is the Bardock TV special canon? No it never was. Episode of Bardock? Obviously not. GT? No. The other movies? No.

Toriyama has already said Frieza and King Cold are the only two of his race with power which obviously throws Chilled and that whole thing out the window. He said Bardock was a low class warrior. He wouldn't even beat Nappa yet in the Bardock TV special he has a power level of 10,000 and gave Dodoria a run for his money so none of that is worth anything to Toriyama either.

[auspx]

On the rare occasions when I decide to pay attention to "Episode of Burdock," I just interpret the whole thing as a dream. As Burdock's getting blown away by Freeza's blast, he has one final vision: the first Super Saiyan transformation. Only, instead of seeing the actual Saiyan who did it, the story is told through Burdock's eyes. Then, he burns like a crisp as Planet Vegeta is destroyed. Bye-bye.

Yes, the entire EoB feels a lot like the ending of the film Taxi Driver, i.e. it's just his fantasy as he dies.

[Kid Buu]

I never thought I'd see Taxi Driver's Travis Bickle compared to Bardock.

So surprising that I have to signature it.

[auspx]

I really don't know how you guys can be so confused about what is and isn't canon. It's not as though it's complicated.

DB Minus ---> Jaco ---> Dragon Ball ---> JSAT 2008 Special ----> Battle of Gods

Is the Bardock TV special canon? No it never was. Episode of Bardock? Obviously not. GT? No. The other movies? No.

Toriyama has already said Freeza and King Cold are the only two of his race with power which obviously throws Chilled and that whole thing out the window. He said Bardock was a low class warrior. He wouldn't even beat Nappa yet in the Bardock TV special he has a power level of 10,000 and gave Dodoria a run for his money so none of that is worth anything to Toriyama either.

The canon version of Bardock (the one from the manga) may have been barely stronger than... Raditz. That's pretty sad. On the other hand it makes his last stand against Freeza even more heroic.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Episode of Bardock? Obviously not.

Shueisha implies that EoB is an extra volume of the original manga though. It could be "canon" in Toriyama's mind, but we don't know yet (if ever). But the "canon" you described is most likely at least what Toriyama has in his mind.

Toriyama has already said Freeza and King Cold are the only two of his race with power which obviously throws Chilled and that whole thing out the window.

Or, it means that Chilled was weak. Which he obviously was, since Toriyama was asked about how strong Bardock was in EoB, and he said that he was one of the top low-class warriors, but not strong enough to become a mid-class, and base Bardock could make Chilled bleed with an off-guard punch in his face, which proves that Chilled's power is indeed not impressive (he was no match for SS Bardock after all), smaller than even First Form Freeza's power.

[auspx]

I never thought I'd see Taxi Driver's Travis Bickle compared to Bardock.

So surprising that I have to signature it.

That and the film Jacob's Ladder.

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob%27s_ ... %28film%29
The last scenes have Jacob returning to the apartment building he once lived in with Sarah. He enters and begins looking through an old shoe box, containing his memories and the pain he has been clinging to, things like his dog tags and a picture of Gabe. Jacob then is surprised to see Gabe at the foot of the stairwell. Gabe, whose name alludes to Gabriel, takes Jacob by the hand and together the two of them ascend the stairwell and disappear into a bright light. The dénouement reveals that Jacob fought in Vietnam, but he did not survive. At the moment of death, his body lies in an Army triage tent, with an expression of peace on his face.

In the end of EoB Bardock is seen walking into the light [the setting sun].

[hleV]

So DBM contradicts DBO? Damnit...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So DBM contradicts DBO? Damnit...

It only contradicts the 1st Time Leap Quest, so you could ignore just that. It's not that important part after all.

[Luso Saiyan]

Gine said that she doesn't want to send Goku as an infiltration baby,

Indeed, I overlooked that part.

Toriyama has already said Freeza and King Cold are the only two of his race with power which obviously throws Chilled and that whole thing out the window.

No, he said Cold and Freeza are the only two of his race with an atypical high battle power (and cruelty).

He said Bardock was a low class warrior.

And he was always portrayed as such.

[Makaioshin]

JSAT 2008 Special

Maybe. It might fall into the same category as the Bardock TV special where people just assume it falls into this Toriyama continuity because of the fact that a character exists is mentioned. I mean for it to work you sorta have to ignore that Gregory is even there.

[xmysticgohanx]

JSAT 2008 Special

Maybe. It might fall into the same category as the Bardock TV special where people just assume it falls into this Toriyama continuity because of the fact that a character exists is mentioned. I mean for it to work you sorta have to ignore that Gregory is even there.

Omg guys Gregory is canon lol

[B]

Episode of Bardock? Obviously not.

Episode of Bardock was originally a manga by Ooishi Naho and doesn't outright contradict anything that we see in the manga proper.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Well, DBO is a canceled project that never made it to Japan, so it's gonna be ignored from now on... But I'll just retcon the contradictions in my head canon, and fit DBO in the manga timeline..

I think the DBO storyline could work if it were to overlap GT and incorporate BoG. If it were to be a story about the sayians finally all dying out and the mystery was to look for fighters that might have decended. Then they can create a SSJGod legacy and put SSJ away for the timeline.

Episode of Bardock? Obviously not.

Episode of Bardock was originally a manga by Ooishi Naho and doesn't outright contradict anything that we see in the manga proper.

It does conflict with the concept of time travel and SSj requirements and Bardock's characterization.. basically everything but Chilled didnt make sense.