Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus

[dbzfan7]

Which did the backstory better?

From the synopsis I read of Minus...I really don't like the change. I preferred Bardock being a bastard and the tragedy of his newly acquired psychic powers tormenting him of the unavoidable future that he could not prevent.

[Hellspawn28]

Toei's Bardock never seem to care for anything other then himself. With DB-, you can see where Goku's good heart nature comes from.

[Gaffer Tape]

Why does Goku's good nature need to come from anywhere other than himself? Or, more likely, his good-hearted nature came from the influence of Son Gohan, his real father figure for all intents and purposes.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The TV Special was far better. DB- destroys the point of Goku being a trash Saiyan send to Earth to destroy its species, and then ironically forget his mission through amnesia and turn into Earth's greatest hero, and it made Goku's backstory even more similar to Superman's. But even if these issues weren't there, DB- didn't even have any time to surpass the TV Special. DB- was a small story that lasted for 16 pages, which would be less than 10 minutes if it was animated without any filler, while the TV Special was a full story that lasted for nearly 50 minutes. As for Bardock's change in character in DB-, it bugged me a little originally, but I got used to it now, so it's fine. I don't care for the decrease of his BP though, nor do I care that it changed the TV Special. For me, DB- is manga canon, and the TV Special is anime canon.

Why does Goku's good nature need to come from anywhere other than himself?

It didn't? Goku was still a violent child until he hit his head. Just because his mother was a soft person doesn't mean that Goku inherited her personality.

[Gaffer Tape]

Why does Goku's good nature need to come from anywhere other than himself?

It didn't? Goku was still a violent child until he hit his head. Just because his mother was a soft person doesn't mean that Goku inherited her personality.

I was responding to Hellspawn28's idea that Goku's goodness came from his father...

But, fine. That just proves my point even further. Goku is not who he is because of genetic traits. He is who he is because of his experiences.

[DoomieDoomie911]

I think the special was better by far. I really didn't like Minus....

[TheGmGoken]

Easily FOG. Better plot and characters. Actually match what we was told about the Saiyans. Everything felt better. Compared to Minus which wad terrible. Bardock design is ugly. The plot sucks. Goku nature comes from his parents instead of what we are told. No Nappa with hair. The story sucked. I'm glad Db has no canon as I'll stick to the Bardock that came first and was so good Toriyama put him in the manga compared to the ruined version Toriyama made. Some things you don't touch. DB is over. Stop adding new things. Freeza knowing about SSJG is stupid IMHO.

[Luso Saiyan]

There are only two things that I liked about Minus: it shows the whereabouts of Raditz and introduces Goku's mother. Other than that, A Final, Solitary Battle is my favourite.

[FortuneSSJ]

Father of Goku by far.
But this is unfair. We have more than 40 minutes of footage in the OVA and DB Minus is just a few pages.
Big difference.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

A Final Solitary Battle by far...

If you were to erase DB Minus from existence, I doubt I'd even notice. The TV Special on the other hand...wow, this thing doesn't get enough praise. The choice of music is absolutely incredible and that final face-off between Bardock and Freeza! This word gets over-used a lot these days, but that scene really was "epic". Even better when they added the echo filter to Bardock's dialogue at the start of DBZ Movie 5

The thing with DB Minus, it feels to me like it's just meant to be some fun, little thing where Toriyama's just going, "Hey, isn't that neat? Now you know!" But I feel like it goes too far out of its way to explain everything and it kinda ruins what made both Goku and Bardock special. And Gine? Lame. Just lame.

The artwork isn't fantastic either. Sorry, Toriyama.

[samuraix123]

I definitely prefer the special more than minus.

[Hellspawn28]

I honestly never care for Bardock. I like DB- over Episode of Bardock since I don't like having Bardock still be alive after Freeza's blast and should have stay dead. EOB was pointless and was only made to promote SSj Bardock in Heroes.

[Ajay]

Father of Goku without a doubt.

Bardock was actually well fleshed out and there was this very unique dark urgency about it that was not present in any other part of the series.

The moment in his vision where he confronts Goku on Namek has to be one of my favourite moments in the entire franchise. It's so perfectly done.

Dragon Ball Minus is garbage but I've spoken about that enough in other threads.

[penguintruth]

I hate to prefer something Toei did over something Toriyama himself did, since it seems so hypocritical of me, but both are outside the 42, so I'm comfortable expressing that the Bardock TV Special is so, so much better than Minus, it hurts.

I prefer to think of Bardock as just another low-class Saiyan who didn't give a fig about his even weaker newborn son and wouldn't bother to see him off. He was a guy who just happened to stumble onto Freeza's plans, nobody would believe him, and he failed when making a gloriously futile attempt to rebel, pinning his last hopes on a son he wouldn't have even cared about. There's a sad, beautiful irony to it all.

This loving father guy who launches his son from the doomed planet because he wuvs him oh so much is Jor-El from the Superman comics, not DB. It works for that mythos, not for this one.

It would have been better if Goku's mother was just one of dozens of brood mares the brutal Saiyans kept around for purposes of breeding, who only got to look at Goku once before he was torn away from her and she was to make a baby with another warrior. Some faceless non-warrior woman that didn't make it like Celipa did through the Saiyan glass ceiling.

[dbzfan7]

I liked how Bardock didn't seem to give a shit about Goku. I liked how he was cursed with a normally awesome power that instead shows him of a future he can't stop. I loved the tragedy behind it. I prefer when all Saiyans are treated as heartless bastards who get their kicks from murdering other races while Goku is the reject.

[Black_Liger]

I'm sorry if my opinion clashes with anyone, but for me, DB- is a freaking bad joke, not only it destroys the amazing narrative of FoG but it freaking converts dragon ball into a superman clone... Toriyama really has lost ALL knack for dark aspects of any class. I do love Gine, I love the interaction of bardock with Gine, I do love Vegeta and Raditz' moment, I love Goku's expression when getting sent to earth, but in I hate Minus with a passion, I can't believe Toriyama made something SO TERRIBLE. In FoG you get a build up, strong narrative value and dramatic story, which would be there even if you took the psychic powers out, in fact in the manga Freeza Remembers Bardock, meaning he saw him face to face plus making FoG Cannon (regardless of EoB) now minus comes in making one big, unforgivable plothole. I do believe Toei sucked most of the time making repetitive movies, but now Toriyama has made Dragon ball a parody of itself with this...

[TheGmGoken]

I liked how Bardock didn't seem to give a shit about Goku. I liked how he was cursed with a normally awesome power that instead shows him of a future he can't stop. I loved the tragedy behind it. I prefer when all Saiyans are treated as heartless bastards who get their kicks from murdering other races while Goku is the reject.

You remember when Saiyans was bastards? Remember when they were stone cold? Me too. I hate how Saiyans now are now cocky warriors with feelings instead of what we were told. Now I'm not saying Saiyans don't gave emotions as Bardock cared for his squad. But it used to be harder to express. Now it's like Barney and Saiyans. Also why the fuck did Toriyama change Bardock outfit?

[dbzfan7]

Why couldn't this have been just an April Fools joke...can I at least pretend this is an April Fools and Toriyama is just trolling for fun...pretty please

[Mewzard]

Goku's origin was already changed to a Superman Expy with the Z era anyways, this wouldn't change all that much. Seriously, did some of you never notice his Saiyan Origin was a slightly more violent Superman origin? It's so extremely blatant.

Also, that would be horrible Penguintruth. Jesus, this isn't Berserk, this is Dragon Ball.

I'll be the one guy who says I do prefer Minus to Father of Goku. Minus isn't perfect. It could have been better if it was longer and allowed time to build things, but that said, I liked the world building of the Saiyan Society (how babies are "raised", what non-combatant Saiyans do, that they have festivals, what their cities look like), I like that Freeza was more planning out the destruction of the Saiyans than whimsically blowing up the place after hearing about Bardock's growth as a warrior, I liked the lack of plotdevice psychic powers (that's something I've always kinda found ridiculous), I also appreciated learning what Raditz was up to (because both Raditz and his mom were not things in the old special).

Saiyans are primal warriors, yes, but I like that he wanted to save his son. For species that have small numbers of children at a time, the desire to protect them is a powerful one, it's what lets species survive. It makes sense from a nature perspective that some deep part of him (ignoring good or bad) would want to see his personal line continue.

With the establishment of SSJ God from the movie, we did learn that some good Saiyans did exist (at least a few), which makes sense. This isn't DnD where an entire race is checked "Chaotic Evil" and move on (I really would change that if I had a say, morality being based on the individual is far more interesting). Even with a majority, there would always be outliers that fall outside of the cracks. If they could still serve a purpose (such as Gine working with the Saiyan's food supply), they could survive. Though it was brief, it was nice to see a kinder Saiyan.

One could argue the irony of relatively (at least for Saiyans) caring parents who saved their son are forgotten and even treated as no better than the rest of the murdering race who died off by their own son also had its sad side.

It just changes what the sad irony is. Bardock telling Goku not to look at the moon, only for him to hit his head, forget, and end up doing it to the death of his adoptive Grandfather is also an interesting thing.

Goku himself doesn't really change much from this origin since he hit his head, all that changes is how we perceive his Origin. It changes his age, what we understand of the Saiyan people, how we view Goku's parents, and such like that...but Goku himself is still the wonderful character we all know and love.

[dbzfan7]

I liked how Bardock didn't seem to give a shit about Goku. I liked how he was cursed with a normally awesome power that instead shows him of a future he can't stop. I loved the tragedy behind it. I prefer when all Saiyans are treated as heartless bastards who get their kicks from murdering other races while Goku is the reject.

You remember when Saiyans was bastards? Remember when they were stone cold? Me too. I hate how Saiyans now are now cocky warriors with feelings instead of what we were told. Now I'm not saying Saiyans don't gave emotions as Bardock cared for his squad. But it used to be harder to express. Now it's like Barney and Saiyans. Also why the fuck did Toriyama change Bardock outfit?

Damn your wording made me thinking of the Petridge farm remembers meme.

I probably would have preferred Gine just be a nobody Bardock slept with just to make more warriors for the Saiyan race. That's all I need to know.