Pre-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta's ki

[Hitiro]

Assuming Vegeta could go SSJ2 before the Majin boost what do you guys think his ki was in relation to SSJ2 Gohan(Cell Games)? Piccolo seems to think that Post-Majin Vegeta was stronger than Gohan's Ki:

Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

But he is still unsure. So given what Piccolo says here do you guys think that Pre-Majin Vegeta was still weaker than SSJ2 Gohan and the only one to surpass that was SSJ2 Goku?

[Blade]

Assuming Vegeta could go SSJ2 before the Majin boost what do you guys think his ki was in relation to SSJ2 Gohan(Cell Games)? Piccolo seems to think that Post-Majin Vegeta was stronger than Gohan's Ki:

Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P2.3
Context: as Vegeta fights Boo
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

But he is still unsure. So given what Piccolo says here do you guys think that Pre-Majin Vegeta was still weaker than SSJ2 Gohan and the only one to surpass that was SSJ2 Goku?

It's hard to say, but during Gohan's fight with Dabura, Vegeta is not only unimpressed that Gohan appears less powerful than he was against Cell, but believes that Dabura is 'tough but not unbeatable' despite initially underestimating his strength.

Estimating Dabura's exact strength has been debated many times on here, and remains a controversial subject, but it's at least fair to say that he's in the same sort of region as Super Perfect Cell, if not entirely as powerful.

All we know for sure is that Vegeta's 'pre-Majin' strength is below Goku's, and that he used the power up to bridge the gap. It's fair to assume that Goku is stronger than Gohan was against Cell, so I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that Vegeta must have at least been in that general region of strength to begin with.

[Reading Rainbow]

This is what I think, in descending order (highest to lowest):

SS2 Goku = SS2 Majin Vegeta
SS2 Vegeta (before Majin)
SS2 Cell Games Gohan
Majin Dabura = SS2 adult Gohan
SS Goku = SS Vegeta (after Majin)
SS Vegeta (before Majin)
SS adult Gohan

That's a good inquiry, I'd like to think that Vegeta was exceptionally stronger than Cell Games Gohan.

[Hitiro]

That's a good inquiry, I'd like to think that Vegeta was exceptionally stronger than Cell Games Gohan.

See, I'm not too sure about this. The way Piccolo words it he is unsure if Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan. Piccolo kind of throws out a "maybe" in response to his ki. We see a lot of mentions about Gohan's Cell Games ki throughout this arc because it is a very difficult level to achieve. They put that level of ki kind of on a pedestal as if it something very difficult to achieve. So if Goku and Vegeta did surpass Gohan's ki from back then I don't think it is by much. Both Goku and Vegeta still think Gohan would be a pretty tough person to beat if he had that level of ki again.

It's hard to say, but during Gohan's fight with Dabura, Vegeta is not only unimpressed that Gohan appears less powerful than he was against Cell, but believes that Dabura is 'tough but not unbeatable' despite initially underestimating his strength.

Estimating Dabura's exact strength has been debated many times on here, and remains a controversial subject, but it's at least fair to say that he's in the same sort of region as Super Perfect Cell, if not entirely as powerful.

All we know for sure is that Vegeta's 'pre-Majin' strength is below Goku's, and that he used the power up to bridge the gap. It's fair to assume that Goku is stronger than Gohan was against Cell, so I think it's a reasonable assumption to make that Vegeta must have at least been in that general region of strength to begin with.

Yeah, it is pretty obvious that Goku is around Gohan's strength or maybe stronger than he was against Cell. Goku actually says that both him and Vegeta were completely even after the Majin power up. And Piccolo says that Vegeta is possibly stronger than Gohan was as a kid. The problem lies in Piccolo's words though. For him to be unsure if Vegeta is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan then that means that the gap between their respective powers isn't huge. This is why I'm lead to believe Vegeta isn't that strong Pre-Majin. It's actually debatable whether either Goku or Majin Vegeta truly surpassed SSJ2 Gohan considering Piccolo is unsure whether Vegeta is stronger. As I said above they kind of put that plateau of power on a pedestal, as if it is something very difficult to achieve. They always praise that level of power highly throughout the arc and I also got the feeling from the characters that if Gohan had kept his strength from the Cell Games then he would have been able to do something more to Boo.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

While Piccolo's quote seems to indicate that Vegeta might've surpassed Kid Gohan, Vegeta says Goku is without a doubt stronger:

Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Of course this does not mean there was a huge realm of difference in their powers.

Goku's burst of Super Saiyan 2 power is enough to convince Vegeta he's not in Goku's league and would need Bobbidi's help to reach it. He was also expecting Goku's full-power to surpass Kid Gohan's, which would've been obvious if he (Vegeta) was already stronger than Kid Gohan. So I think Goku's Super Saiyan 2 burst is superior to Vegeta but weaker than Kid Gohan's power. The only things we know for a fact is that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Teen Gohan and Goku and Majin Vegeta are stronger than Kid Gohan. Everything else comes down to your interpretations. I think there's enough implying Vegeta isn't on Kid Gohan's level yet, though.

[kuartus4]

I think Pre-Majin Vegeta was stronger than non rage boosted kid Gohan but weaker than rage boosted kid Gohan. Something like this is what I have in mind:

Non rage boosted kid Gohan:100
Teen Gohan:100
Pre Majin Vegeta:106.66
Rage boosted kid Gohan:141.25
Buu saga Goku:150

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Has non-rage boost Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan ever even appeared?

[Kamiccolo9]

Has non-rage boost Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan ever even appeared?

Movie 9, maybe? I can't remember the circumstances of that transformation, though.

[Blade]

Has non-rage boost Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan ever even appeared?

Movie 9, maybe? I can't remember the circumstances of that transformation, though.

If I recall correctly, it's a pretty similar unleashing of anger, in that it follows the tradition of the movies re-hashing story-lines or the circumstances around transformations from the parent plot-line.

[kuartus4]

Has non-rage boost Super Saiyan 2 Kid Gohan ever even appeared?

I believe he did. Right after Cell returns from his self destruct attempt, we see Gohan as a SSJ1, and after Cell kills Trunks Gohan powers up to SSJ2. Since he did it voluntarily, I believe he temporarily lost the rage boost. IMO, it would explain why Cell broke his arm so easily with one casual blast, and why Gohan was getting his full force KHH pushed back by SPC, yet Gohan later completely overwhelmed Cell when he regained his rage boost. I have it like this:

Non Rage boosted SSJ2 kid Gohan:8
Super Perfect Cell:9
Rage boosted kid Gohan:11.4

[mAcChaos]

I hadn't thought of him losing his rage boost, but he definitely acts more like his usual insecure self the 2nd time around instead of thirsting for Cell's agony. Goku dying took the wind out of his sails.

[dario03]

Do we know how precise sensing power levels is? Perhaps Piccolo isn't sure if Vegeta is stronger because it has been 7 years since Gohan fought Cell and its not like Piccolo would have a power level number of SS2 Gohan like a scouter would give.

[Hitiro]

While Piccolo's quote seems to indicate that Vegeta might've surpassed Kid Gohan, Vegeta says Goku is without a doubt stronger:

Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Of course this does not mean there was a huge realm of difference in their powers.

Goku's burst of Super Saiyan 2 power is enough to convince Vegeta he's not in Goku's league and would need Bobbidi's help to reach it. He was also expecting Goku's full-power to surpass Kid Gohan's, which would've been obvious if he (Vegeta) was already stronger than Kid Gohan. So I think Goku's Super Saiyan 2 burst is superior to Vegeta but weaker than Kid Gohan's power. The only things we know for a fact is that Goku and Vegeta are stronger than Teen Gohan and Goku and Majin Vegeta are stronger than Kid Gohan. Everything else comes down to your interpretations. I think there's enough implying Vegeta isn't on Kid Gohan's level yet, though.

I actually forgot about that quote about being greater than Kid Gohan's power. I also agree that doesn't necessarily mean there was a huge difference between them and Gohan's from back then. I would assume it wasn't that much different considering Piccolo's comment in conjunction with this.

Do we know how precise sensing power levels is? Perhaps Piccolo isn't sure if Vegeta is stronger because it has been 7 years since Gohan fought Cell and its not like Piccolo would have a power level number of SS2 Gohan like a scouter would give.

Piccolo has been pretty on the money about this thing before I think. Of course it has been 7 years but Goku and Vegeta have no quarrel's in believing where they are in respect to SSJ2 Kid Gohan's power. They also both gauged their other enemies pretty well. If we have anything to go by the only one who is not reliable in terms of power levels would be the Kaioshin.