The different animation styles in the DBZ series

[DaemonCorps]

I'M BACK! Anyways...

About those climactic episodes though, back in DB I doubt they cared much because their audience was fairly young and wouldn't really care about differences in animation. I guess as the series progressed and more and more led up to the final battles they thought they needed better animation to finish the job. So yes, I'm sure they were pretty aware of which groups were better. Though thinking back on DB, both Piccolo's were defeated in a fairly well animated episode...so what baddies do you mean?

Well maybe it's just me, but I really hated the animation for the ep with King Piccolo's death. It looked like it was an early kind of Pale Cartoony Type. Though yeah, I've gotta agree that the animators at that time have got to have been like, "Eh it's not like it's gonna end up being some kind of hardcore show that fans 20 years from now will over-analyze." Though that brings up the question: then how come better animators weren't used more often later in the series? Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure that the last tournament in DB had the most usage of the good animators at the time, as Mike D said.

I'd post up some of what looks like the early New Type, but that's on my other computer at the time, so I've gotta put it on some kind of disc to transfer it (it's all so complicated...).

I'd put up some kind of witty comment on Castor Troy's post of the Vegeta pic, but I'm sure we've got enough of that for now.

And about the bug guy with the chest-plate face mask: Well, they don't have a source from the manga to look it up from so there ya go.

[Mr. Announcer]

Okay well they were rotated so it's not like they had a higher concentration of good animators at any given time. That also answers the question of why they didn't use the better animators more often. It takes much longer than you might think to create one episode of a cartoon, especially back in the day. They can't work their good animators like slaves just for the sake of better episodes. You can see in the interest of time only the pale cartoony type appears twice in the rotation...or it could be two different crappy animation groups, I can't tell the difference once it gets that bad. And as for why they couldn't just fire certain groups, well in japan job security is good, hella good.

[tarsonis]

And as for why they couldn't just fire certain groups, well in japan job security is good, hella good.

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I thought the animation groups were outsourced to Korea?

[Domon]

Okay well they were rotated so it's not like they had a higher concentration of good animators at any given time. That also answers the question of why they didn't use the better animators more often. It takes much longer than you might think to create one episode of a cartoon, especially back in the day. They can't work their good animators like slaves just for the sake of better episodes. You can see in the interest of time only the pale cartoony type appears twice in the rotation...or it could be two different crappy animation groups, I can't tell the difference once it gets that bad. And as for why they couldn't just fire certain groups, well in japan job security is good, hella good.

Well, all that, plus, no one was expecting each and every frames to be examined years later. The idea was that the kids would see the episode only once or twice then move on to the next. They weren't thinking of the more picky adults making "artisic" judgements on the drawings. Yeah, it gets pretty bad sometimes, but kids don't notice these things as much.

[Mike D]

Okay well they were rotated so it's not like they had a higher concentration of good animators at any given time. That also answers the question of why they didn't use the better animators more often. It takes much longer than you might think to create one episode of a cartoon, especially back in the day. They can't work their good animators like slaves just for the sake of better episodes. You can see in the interest of time only the pale cartoony type appears twice in the rotation...or it could be two different crappy animation groups, I can't tell the difference once it gets that bad. And as for why they couldn't just fire certain groups, well in japan job security is good, hella good.

Well, all that, plus, no one was expecting each and every frames to be examined years later. The idea was that the kids would see the episode only once or twice then move on to the next. They weren't thinking of the more picky adults making "artisic" judgements on the drawings. Yeah, it gets pretty bad sometimes, but kids don't notice these things as much.

Not really. Because, like most anime, the show was aimed at thirteen year-olds. So, I don't think teenagers would be as unperceptive as to not notice the horrible designs.

Being a lucrative as it was, there should have been no reason for stuff like that triangle shit. You don't see it in any other of Toei's anime. So the real question is: why with DBZ and not any of the other shows?

[Rocketman]

Being a lucrative as it was, there should have been no reason for stuff like that triangle shit. You don't see it in any other of Toei's anime. So the real question is: why with DBZ and not any of the other shows?

400 episodes?

[Domon]

Because, like most anime, the show was aimed at thirteen year-olds.

Erm, no. It's aimed at the little pre-teen tykes. No amounts of "but it's for teens" or "but it's for all ages/the family" is going to change that.

As for the animation inconsistanies, you'll see it in many other shows. Toei or otherwise. One can also see 5 or 6 different animators in Sailor Moon, Digimon, Gundam or any other shows that one watches a dozen times over.

[Godo]

All I can explain the whole deal with is that they didn't put as much effort in Dragonball Z as they did in Dragonball. If you compare the actual pictures in the manga with the ones in the anime (screenshots from myfavoritegames.com) you will find the one in Dragonball more accurate than the ones in Dragonball Z.

Dragonball examples:

Goku moving a boulder in the manga
Goku moving a boulder in the anime

Krillin moving a boulder in the manga
Krillin moving a boulder in the anime

As you see they are quite similar.

Dragonball Z examples:

Radditz holding Gohan in the manga
Radditz holding Gohan in the anime

Mr. Buu having shot a blast in the manga
Mr. Buu having shot a blast in the anime

As you see these pictures have more differences with the original manga ones.

I think that the animation teams go more free hands with Dragonball Z, making it to look so crappy sometimes.
But still I don't know why they decided to make Dragonball Z worse animated than Dragonball...

[MartianOddity]

As you see these pictures have more differences with the original manga ones.

I think that the animation teams go more free hands with Dragonball Z, making it to look so crappy sometimes.
But still I don't know why they decided to make Dragonball Z worse animated than Dragonball...

I agree, but you also have to think of that the chapters that are part of the Z-arcs contain art that's more detailed and dynamic. But still that's no reason to occasionally make them so ugly.

[Mike D]

400 episodes?

Uhh. . .291? I'm talking DragonBall Z here.

And YuGiOh has 251 with almost perfect animation and character design in every episode.

As for the animation inconsistanies, you'll see it in many other shows. Toei or otherwise. One can also see 5 or 6 different animators in Sailor Moon, Digimon, Gundam or any other shows that one watches a dozen times over.

But, you don't see the horrid character designs in those anime that is as horrible as in DragonBall Z.

Just trying to make a point.

[Domon]

And YuGiOh has 251 with almost perfect animation and character design in every episode.

YuGiOh is also a much newer series that uses computer-aided animation. Comparing it to a entirely hands-drawn series from years ago isn't quite fair.

But, you don't see the horrid character designs in those anime that is as horrible as in DragonBall Z.

Methinks I should show some screenshots of those series and point out how bad they look... Sailor Moon had that "round face" animator every so often, and Digimon had that "rough" looking animation(triangle crap guy?) sometimes.


EDIT:

A well drawn version of Sailor Mercery, for reference purpose.

A really badly drawn version of the same character.

[Tatsunoboshi Horoko]

400 episodes?

And YuGiOh has 251 with almost perfect animation and character design in every episode.

Yu-Gi-Oh! has had scores of bad animation, especially in its later arcs. (Although it occassionally had its good share of well animated episodes.) Its Toei counterpart actually had a better track record with animation than it did (and that's really not saying much, considering how screwed up the color pallette on just about everything was in that series.)

[Majin Buu]

Wow, I never noticed how bad some of those shots look. I have noticed that some episodes look better than others but I didn't think much of it. I mean I heard they had to use different animation studios to get episodes out and I have seen big hair Goku before but man I was LOLing at that wierd Vegeta shot and the lipo Goku shot.

[fps_anth]

I remember one episode standing out....the episode where Mystic Gohan is fighting Super Buu for the first time(episode 249 in North American numbers), and theres a flashback of Gotenks and Buu fighting.....the animation is TERRIBLE. Triangle crap at its worst.

[Sun_Wukong]

There's an animation style used towards the end of the series that I quite liked. They use it when Vegeta admits Goku is better than him during the Buu fight. Its closer to the style they use in the Budokai intros than the GT style. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[theoriginalbilis]

There's an animation style used towards the end of the series that I quite liked. They use it when Vegeta admits Goku is better than him during the Buu fight. Its closer to the style they use in the Budokai intros than the GT style. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

That would be the "Closest to Toriyama" style. They're used less and less in the late Cell-Buu era, but they show up from time to time. Another intance of that animation team showing up would be the episode when Goku comes back to life to give Gohan the Potara earrings and Gohan is absorbed by Buu.

[Mayuri Furiza Kurotsuchi]

There's an animation style used towards the end of the series that I quite liked. They use it when Vegeta admits Goku is better than him during the Buu fight. Its closer to the style they use in the Budokai intros than the GT style. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

That would be the "Closest to Toriyama" style. They're used less and less in the late Cell-Buu era, but they show up from time to time. Another intance of that animation team showing up would be the episode when Goku comes back to life to give Gohan the Potara earrings and Gohan is absorbed by Buu.

No, that was the "new-type" person. He means the fight between SSJ2 Goku and Kid Buu.

[veshira]

Dragonball Z examples:

Radditz holding Gohan in the manga
Radditz holding Gohan in the anime

As you see these pictures have more differences with the original manga ones.

Well, for those two particular images, there's a good reason why the images are different. Toriyama, at that point, had learned how to draw comics better! That is, he has learned how to tell more of the story in less panels, by how he draws it and only using the necessary dialogue. This way, he doesn't have to draw more panels, which saves him a lot of time.

In the anime, though, since everything is animated, it's a bit different telling the same story as it is in comic format. You can animate movement! (Ooh! Aah! ) Not to mention, the animators probably wanted to drag things out as much as possible, so that they wouldn't catch up with the manga. (Starring at each other, anyone?)

So yes, Toriyama to draw less, so he has less work to do. Meanwhile, the animators want to draw more, so that they have jobs.

[Godo]

Dragonball Z examples:

Radditz holding Gohan in the manga
Radditz holding Gohan in the anime

As you see these pictures have more differences with the original manga ones.

Well, for those two particular images, there's a good reason why the images are different. Toriyama, at that point, had learned how to draw comics better! That is, he has learned how to tell more of the story in less panels, by how he draws it and only using the necessary dialogue. This way, he doesn't have to draw more panels, which saves him a lot of time.

In the anime, though, since everything is animated, it's a bit different telling the same story as it is in comic format. You can animate movement! (Ooh! Aah! ) Not to mention, the animators probably wanted to drag things out as much as possible, so that they wouldn't catch up with the manga. (Starring at each other, anyone?)

So yes, Toriyama to draw less, so he has less work to do. Meanwhile, the animators want to draw more, so that they have jobs.

So what you are saying is that they got worse results due to more work to do? Or am I not getting your point?

[MartianOddity]

Well, for those two particular images, there's a good reason why the images are different. Toriyama, at that point, had learned how to draw comics better! That is, he has learned how to tell more of the story in less panels, by how he draws it and only using the necessary dialogue. This way, he doesn't have to draw more panels, which saves him a lot of time.

In the anime, though, since everything is animated, it's a bit different telling the same story as it is in comic format. You can animate movement! (Ooh! Aah! ) Not to mention, the animators probably wanted to drag things out as much as possible, so that they wouldn't catch up with the manga. (Starring at each other, anyone?)

So yes, Toriyama to draw less, so he has less work to do. Meanwhile, the animators want to draw more, so that they have jobs.

I have nothing against the drawing out on time in animes thingie. It has to be there by a reason.

But this is what I find disturbing with the differences of the pictures:

First of all : The manga frame looks more dramatic. They should have it as a model when illustrating frames. They haven't managed to catch the drama of the scene on paper. I guess they replaced that drama with the voices of the voice actors.

Second of all: When the manga got more detailed, I guess they should make the animations more detailed as well. Looking at the manga illustration, there are much more details in the face, on the armor (such as it looking polished) etc. than at the end of the last Tenkaichi Budokai.
These details are gone at the anime picture. One would guess that the animation team got more to do and couldn't pass the details on to the anime.
I guess the production would get much more expensive if they added all the details and that it would be economically impossible as it was just a TV show. But it sure would look nicer with them there.