The Monkey King wrote:Yeah and the picture I brought up was from the Buu arc where Gohan had been slacking off for 7 years.B wrote:Gohan is a nerd. The Cell arc is over and he's not the next Broly. I don't understand how you can sit there and not understand the concept of artistic license, in regards to drawing Gohan as a bookish scholar and not a fighter.
I don't even know where that Vegeta piece is from.
The drawings are from the Chozenshuu I believe:It looks like Mr. Satan developed a case of anorexiaSpoiler:
Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Last edited by auspx on Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Even in the manga Toriyama had a tendency to not draw them so muscular in non serious situations:The Monkey King wrote:Yeah and the picture I brought up was from the Buu arc where Gohan had been slacking off for 7 years.B wrote:Gohan is a nerd. The Cell arc is over and he's not the next Broly. I don't understand how you can sit there and not understand the concept of artistic license, in regards to drawing Gohan as a bookish scholar and not a fighter.
I don't even know where that Vegeta piece is from.
The drawings are from the Chozenshuu I believe:It looks like Mr. Satan developed a case of anorexiaSpoiler:

Also compare Gohan at the beginning of the Buu Arc to Gohan about to start training with Goten:


Gohan was towering over Videl even back then:

Group shot of the side characters(though not ideal angle):
.Spaghetti arms Vegeta:

There are a lot of these kinds of panels in the Buu Arc and it just shows, that Toriyama has always drawn his characters with small bodies and such. Whether it's more extreme now I don't know for sure.
Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
What bothers me more than any sudden lack of muscles is how on some of those character designs the facial proportions seem off--specifically the distance between characters' eyes (on the BOG character sheet of Toriyama's, this would be Chi-Chi, Goten, Marron, and Yamcha.) It makes their faces look unusually wide compared to the other characters drawn beside them.
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
The problem is that their body is not proportional to their head. Vegeta here almost looks like a chibi wih that big head and skinny anorexic body.
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Getting back on the debate between FOG and Minus, is it safe to say that the general consensus it that while Minus makes more sense, FOG is a better story?
Khalid Shahin wrote:Yeah, pretty much sums the show up right there.Dragon Soul Funimation Lyrics wrote:Nothing ever dies; we will rise again!
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
There is no general consensus.thatdbzguy wrote:Getting back on the debate between FOG and Minus, is it safe to say that the general consensus it that while Minus makes more sense, FOG is a better story?
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
The Buu arc has some of the worst art in the entire manga especially when you compare it to a page from something like from the 1987-1990 era of Dragonball. I bet if I pulled a random page from the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, it will look more aesthetically better than a page from the Buu arc. However, I still look at those Buu arc images and I still think they look fine. I don't go "eww". It still looks like Dragonball, whether it is drawn in chibi, or minimalistic, or normal. We see that with pages from the whole DB manga, but I never usually start to think it looks bad until pages in the Buu arc (generally with Piccolo) but overall it still looks fine.dbgtFO wrote:There are a lot of these kinds of panels in the Buu Arc and it just shows, that Toriyama has always drawn his characters with small bodies and such. Whether it's more extreme now I don't know for sure.
Toriyama's style has changed so much, that it looks like another artist completely and it looks like he has LOST his ability to draw as well as he use to. I mean the character's faces look too wide, their bodies too thin, and their heads are too big for their bodies.
Even look at Toriyama's sketches from now and then; the skinniness in characters with overly large heads is prevalent compared to his sketches in the Bardock special (those sketches look awesome).
I noticed his change when he started to make the characters have a very hunched forward head, and Piccolo having an overly long and wide face with the eyes being too far apart and the nose being way too long. It started with Piccolo. Take a look for yourselves.
Anyways, that example of JoeJoe's Bizarre Adventure looks practically the same with slight variations of course. It still looks like it is by the same artist and the integrity and detail in the art is still there with great proportions overall. I cannot say the same for Toriyama. The change in JoeJoe's Bizarre Adventure are very minor and is something you would expect with an artist. It's not like the huge overhaul DB has gotten with Toriyama. I almost wonder if Toriyama does it on purpose since the art had remained very consistent from Doctor Slump through to the Saiyans arrival. Then it starts to change, gradually, but it changed. Vegeta looks different, first, he looked smaller, up until he reads Goku is on his way to Earth. Then he is started to be drawn a little more muscular with the prominent temples being drawn on his forehead a few pages later. And his change continues through the fight with Goku. Lines are added to the characters skin, faces (such as Vegeta's eyes, which stop being drawn rounded), and clothing. Just take your manga and look for the changes through this portion of the series from when Goku is about to arrive to the fight with Vegeta. I was shocked how much change occurs in Toriyama's style in just a few pages.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Sorry, I got you wrong. I thought that you were complaining about Toriyama changing his armor, not about it's design.TheGmGoken wrote:As I said. I'm over DbM and just accept it for what it is. I don't bash the plot no more. I just had an issue with the armor. So no I'm not bashing just to bash. As I said it's just a nitpick. Besides Toriyama isn't the only author to change character design. I don't see how that makes him lovable. Also I did say well implied that I wouldn't be shocked if he changed it. I'm saying I hate the armor he's wearing. Just my opinion on the design. Also if I recall don't most characters just wash or make a outfit that's the same. Why would they randomly run out of thar style of armour.
I can't agree with that. It's like comparing an episode of a 20-minute TV series with a full-length movie.Gaffer Tape wrote:Of course it's fair to compare them. Toriyama could have told as long of a story as he liked. He did serialize every single week, after all, during the Trunks run. In the case of DB Minus, it was a bonus cash grab, so he probably could have done whatever he wanted with it. Or, barring that, he could have told a much more compact story effectively in the same space. That Toriyama either can't effectively tell this type of story or can't do so within the limitations of his medium doesn't suddenly make it unfair to compare it to efforts that effectively do tell the same story.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
Yes, and if you're the author and put yourself in that position, well, that's your problem. To use your own example, if I try to take a 2-hour movie and condense its storyline into a 20-minute TV episode, and the end result sucks, do you really think I can hide behind, "Well, it's really not fair to compare the two because I only had 20 minutes"? Maybe I should have thought about whether or not the end result was possible to do well in that medium. Maybe I should have realized that if I try to tell the same kind of story that's already been told, the end result is inevitably going to be compared to its forebear.
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Current Episode: Course-Correcting the Movies - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Resurrection 'F' Arc Part 2
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
I'd agree with that. I thought Minus was too short, so I assume Bardock facing of Freeza still happened.thatdbzguy wrote:Getting back on the debate between FOG and Minus, is it safe to say that the general consensus it that while Minus makes more sense, FOG is a better story?
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
There is no doubt that this happened. It's in the manga.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I'd agree with that. I thought Minus was too short, so I assume Bardock facing of Freeza still happened.thatdbzguy wrote:Getting back on the debate between FOG and Minus, is it safe to say that the general consensus it that while Minus makes more sense, FOG is a better story?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Bardock TV Special vs Dragon Ball Minus
The question is: If it happened Bardock was killed by Freeza or sent in the distant past? I prefer to think Bardock was killed!DBZGTKOSDH wrote:There is no doubt that this happened. It's in the manga.Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I'd agree with that. I thought Minus was too short, so I assume Bardock facing of Freeza still happened.thatdbzguy wrote:Getting back on the debate between FOG and Minus, is it safe to say that the general consensus it that while Minus makes more sense, FOG is a better story?
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I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...







