Times when a Dub > Original

[VegettoEX]

Well, let's just set up a chart (as best a chart as you can do in text, anyway). All of these are valid reasons. You (again) don't have to like them, agree with them, or find any worthwhile value in them at all... but you do have to acknowledge they exist.

While I've said this ad nauseam, it's worth repeating here that Nozawa plays each and every single one of these characters differently. That extends to a different accent/dialect on some characters, specific types of words used, the aggressive tone used for some, etc. Yes, even the "pitch" (a word Nozawa detractors like to use... a lot!) is entirely different between pretty much everyone here, and even more so at different ages. I understand that if you don't know Japanese you're not going to pick up on it... but at the same time, I don't know Japanese and I can easily pick up on it, because I'm paying attention to what I'm watching / listening to!

POSSIBLE REASONS TO CAST NOZAWA AS CERTAIN CHARACTERS

Raditz:
- Goku's brother

Gohan:
- Goku's son
- looks similar (though not identical) to Goku as a child

Tullece:
- looks identical to Goku
- play up artistic/thematic point of Tullece being an "evil" Goku by using the same voice actress speaking in a different way

Bardock:
- looks identical to Goku
- established precedent with other characters (identical visuals)

Goten:
- Goku's son
- looks identical to Goku as a child
- established precedent with Gohan (family) and other characters (identical visuals)

There's also the whole "not many Saiyans to begin with" thing bringing the idea a small gene pool, and if you go with DBZ Movie 3 logic and what it shows us, the ones that ARE out there seem to have a lot of similarities. There's a pretty valid "in-universe" answer to go along with the out-of-universe answers.

So in a nutshell, saying there are no legitimate reasons for Nozawa to play some of these characters is generally a deliberate attempt to shut down the argument without giving it the time of day. It's not like I cast the characters, and it's not like I own the characters, so I'm not going to take personal offense if you still don't think Bardock should have been played by Nozawa...

... but if you haven't actually given it the tiniest amount of thought and listened to the way she portrays all these different characters, you probably haven't brought anything beyond, "Well I just think so."

That's fine, but that's not a conversation worth having, because that's not a conversation.

[Gaffer Tape]

To add to the Bardock section of the list, though, I personally think a very important reason is that Bardock is the main character of his respective work. Just like giving him Goku's appearance, I think giving him Goku's voice was a way of grounding this really odd and out of place special in something concretely Dragon Ball by having Nozawa's ever-present voice headline it as usual.

[Fizzer]

I don't think I said, and didn't intend to say, that there are no arguments in favour of Nozawa playing Bardock - there are some blindingly obvious ones. I just said that I didn't think it seemed any more fitting than it would for Raditz, despite the patterns it adds to.

However, between posts both VegettoEX and Gaffer Tape, I'm actually feeling quite differently about it now. I guess it does actually make sense

[VegettoEX]

Oh no worries, I'm with ya'. I'm not classifying you personally as "NUH UH WILL NOT TOLERATE NOZAWA IN ROLES NOOOOOOOOOOOO!" I'm just using your responses as a jumping point to get my own thoughts out there .

But hey, we're changing your mind in the process? Good. ONE. OF. US.

[TheBlackPaladin]

It just that when it comes to dubs (of a cartoon/anime), the word ''Original'' is usually misunderstood and they think that ''Original'' means the best.

I prefer calling it ''Original Japanese Dub''. Calling the Japanese DBZ only by the word ''Original'' (or Japanese Original) is like me trying to idealize or glorify something.

And, in turn, I find that most people using the word "dub" to refer to the original Japanese version of the franchise are attempting to do so in a pejorative way, like, "Oh, well that version's JUST A DUB, too!"

It's like they're simultaneously downgrading the original Japanese version ("just a dub") while unintentionally disregarding the very product they're trying to elevate (their own favorite "dub").

Now, don't get me wrong: I'm all for being pedantic. The entirety of Kanzenshuu is basically founded on that ideal (accurate information, professionally written information, source documentation, etc.). That being said, I really do find that the only reason anyone ever wants to get that pedantic about classifying the original Japanese version of the franchise as a "dub" is to do so as a snide, dismissive remark... and while it's painfully transparent, as I mentioned before, it at least serves a nice counterproductive measure of hurting your own argument by attacking your own favored product in the process.

I agree that that's almost always the reasoning for using the term "Japanese dub" even when the original work is Japanese. So please know that I don't hold that stance......but I've been wondering........on a purely technical level, might "Japanese dub" be somewhat appropriate when applied specifically to Kai, since there technically was another VO track made previously (for DBZ) that they are now dubbing over?

[TheGmGoken]

Thread made me think. Remember when I did Nozawa giving Goku a deeper voice and TFS Goku a differ pitch. I've been thinking to change Bardock VOICE to Raditz to keep the tradition of Family members having same voices in SON. I will also do Nozawa for Raditz,

[thatdbzguy]

To add to the Bardock section of the list, though, I personally think a very important reason is that Bardock is the main character of his respective work. Just like giving him Goku's appearance, I think giving him Goku's voice was a way of grounding this really odd and out of place special in something concretely Dragon Ball by having Nozawa's ever-present voice headline it as usual.

Well, looks like my opinion just got destroyed.

Everyone just disregard what I said before about Bardock.

[B]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because... Gaffer Tape brings up a great point. the special is very dark and very un-Dragon Ball for the most part. Keeping whatever familiarity they could with viewers makes sense.

[thatdbzguy]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because... Gaffer Tape brings up a great point. the special is very dark and very un-Dragon Ball for the most part. Keeping whatever familiarity they could with viewers makes sense.

I'm not. His point is good. Can't refute it.

[Rocketman]

Nozawa is no more fitting for Bardock than she would have been for Raditz.

I think "looks exactly like him" is certainly a reason. You may not like the reason or agree with the reason, but to dismiss it outright or pretend it's not true is... well, silly!

Butbutbut that's one of the Great Sins of Funimation, casting voices based on appearance!

[Ringworm128]

I've never had a problem with Nozawa's Bardok but I just don't think it's that necessary. Sonny Straight works far better for Bardok because it let's him stand on his own, when I hear Nozawa voicing Bardok I hear just that, Nozawa voicing Bardok. But when I hear Sonny Straight voice him I hear Bardok. It's a reason why I'm glad they replaced David Hayter for Naked/Punished Snake/Big Boss in MGS5.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not because... Gaffer Tape brings up a great point. the special is very dark and very un-Dragon Ball for the most part. Keeping whatever familiarity they could with viewers makes sense.

But they could have also gone all the way and made something that really stood out.

[Gaffer Tape]

How does that make it stand out any less, though? If anything, with people like you talking about it, it makes it stand out even more.

But I could turn the question back around at you. Why alienate the audience further? Even to this day, there has not been a piece of voiced Dragon Ball animation that does not feature Nozawa. She is the voice of Dragon Ball. She's the one element that ties it all together. The Bardock special is almost unrecognizable as a piece of Dragon Ball except for the protagonist being an evil Goku. Even though he's not the same character, not exactly identical, and not voiced the same way, they give just enough for the audience to feel at home. Obviously, this idea doesn't apply to the dub, as there is no similar vocal familiarity. Goku has multiple voices. The narrator changes in every series. There isn't a vocal constant like there is in the original work.

[Ringworm128]

That's exactly my point, the only real reason to have Nozawa as Bardok is for the sake of tradition.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's not tradition. It's a subtle tethering of the work to the familiar.

[ABED]

There is consistency with Goku in the dub. Yes, there's the Ocean dub and the inhouse dub, but Schemmel has voiced adult Goku in all 4 Dragon Ball series, including the redub of seasons 1-2.

But when I hear Sonny Straight voice him I hear Bardok.

I get what you're saying, but you can clearly hear Strait as Bardock.

[Gaffer Tape]

Um, I believe Stephanie Nadolny has voiced him too. And Colleen Clinkenbeard. And Ceyli Delgadillo. And, again,that's just staying with the "current" in-house releases of FUNimation's cast.

[ABED]

Um, I believe Stephanie Nadolny has voiced him too. And Colleen Clinkenbeard. And, again,that's just staying with the "current" in-house releases of FUNimation's cast.

I wrote "adult Goku", There's plenty of vocal familiarity.

[Gaffer Tape]

But that's my point. Nozawa has literally been in everything. She's the one constant. Dub fans have several voices of Goku. You're in one episode, then you're in the next, and bam, your cast has been replaced, and you start over again. So having your protagonist be voiced by someone else in the Bardock special is not as jarring in the dub because it happens a lot. I'm honestly not even sure why you're going out of your way to specify adult Goku.

[ABED]

But that's my point. Nozawa has literally been in everything. She's the one constant. Dub fans have several voices of Goku. You're in one episode, then you're in the next, and bam, your cast has been replaced, and you start over again. So having your protagonist be voiced by someone else in the Bardock special is not as jarring in the dub because it happens a lot. I'm honestly not even sure why you're going out of your way to specify adult Goku.

Because his voice hasn't changed in 15 years. Sean is very adamant that he be the voice of Goku for as long as he's able, and for such an important character, I don't see FUNi changing the voice of the main character.

[Gaffer Tape]

Okay, now I'm lost and feel we're making divergent points. I'm not asking them to change Goku's adult dub voice. I don't care what they do with the dub. But the fact of the matter is, depending on what you watch, just picking out two random pieces of the franchise, you are probably going to have a different voice for your protagonist.

If you watch the DB TV series, GT series, and one movie, it will be Stephanie Nadolny.

Watch one of the movies, and it will be Colleen Clinkenbeard.

Watch two of the other movies, and it will be Ceyli Delgadillo.

Watch Z or Kai, and it will be Sean Schemmel.

Watch the early Boo arc of Z or Kai, and it will be Kyle Hebert.

Watch the Bardock special, and it will be Sonny Strait.

Watch the Trunks special, and it will be Eric Vale and Dameon Clark.

So all I'm saying is, FUNimation's dub has a A LOT of different voice actors in the protagonist slot. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it is a thing that exists. And it is a thing that makes it much easier for that fanbase to accept another actor taking the lead role.

Compare it to the Japanese version:

If you watch the DB TV series, GT series, and one movie, it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch one of the movies, and it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch two of the other movies, and it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch Z or Kai, and it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch the early Boo arc of Z or Kai, and it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch the Bardock special, and it will be Nozawa Masako.

Watch the Trunks special, and it will be Kusao Takeshi and Nozawa Masako.

Now that's an audience that has been strongly conditioned to believe that, any time they watch Dragon Ball, it's going to be headlined by Nozawa. Because there's never been a time when it hasn't been true. Yes, there's some vocal consistency in the dub, but it's nothing like this. It's a completely different situation. Therefore, it's much easier for a dub fan to say, "Yeah, they really should have given Bardock a different voice." Because that's what they're used to! It's what they often get!