Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by samuraix123 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself. :? but different folks different strokes :P


EDIT - I'm just curious why is it that with Japanese animation they only make their mouth flaps move up and down?(I know some don't have this issue) I never see the mouths match the words that's being said. Is that because they have to make the mouth flaps go up and down and so it won't look funky when other countries has to dub it?
Last edited by samuraix123 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Blade » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:01 pm

The problem with how Toei appears to Westerners has a lot to do with how Anime is often viewed as being an artisan product with invariably high production values.

The truth is that Toei have never been a company that aspires to the calibre of craft that the likes of Bones or Ghibli do. Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.

That's not to say I'm defending their recent production cuts to One Piece or the shambles that is the Buu arc of Kai, both of which I feel very strongly about, but I just feel that a lot of Westerners assume that every animation studio in Japan is working to the same remit and principles.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Looneygamemaster » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:27 pm

Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
Umm...are you saying that Toei does better animation work than what you see in western animation?

Because...I don't think that's true.

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Blade » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:32 pm

Looneygamemaster wrote:
Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
Umm...are you saying that Toei does better animation work than what you see in western animation?

Because...I don't think that's true.
When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:39 pm

Blade wrote:When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.
Certain aspects might be more dynamic (at times, depending on the show), but actual better quality animation... nope.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Looneygamemaster » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:40 pm

When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.
Nothing they've animated has the fluidity and life of Adventure Time. Especially nowadays, when their directorial skill (or lack thereof) can't cover up how static and clunky everything looks.

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by samuraix123 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:46 pm

Who animated the new Thundercats anime/cartoon? because that looked amazing! 1 thing that kinda gets me about new animation(Not saying Toei here because I haven't seen nor do I know enough about ''NEW'' anime in general) is when you see some people in the distances they ain't got no faces lol I also don't much too much for some new animes(yes I know I like Toriko) I miss Japan's dark anime I call them lol stuff from the 80's and 90's.
The Dragonboxes are like a middle aged woman who still looks good through simply taking good care of her skin and body with maybe a tiny bit of makeup while the Orange Bricks are like a middle aged woman who get's 50 tons of botox, makeup and plastic surgery in order to look younger and as a result looks even worse. ~ ringworm128
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:11 pm

samuraix123 wrote:Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself. :? but different folks different strokes :P
Don't get me wrong, I like the anime, and I really enjoyed it (by watching it before the manga though). But it's just the fact that being no blood makes it both unrealistic and incomplete. It could have been far better though, and they ruined Ichiryu vs Midora fight by not only removing the blood, but also by cutting scenes. It could have been far better than it was, and I hope they will take a more serious tone if they continue with the Gourmet World arc.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Attitudefan » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:15 pm

The well animated episodes of Dragon Ball still look great even today. The well animated episodes didn't age badly unlike the Last House episodes which look very dated.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:17 pm

samuraix123 wrote:Who animated the new Thundercats anime/cartoon? because that looked amazing! 1 thing that kinda gets me about new animation(Not saying Toei here because I haven't seen nor do I know enough about ''NEW'' anime in general) is when you see some people in the distances they ain't got no faces lol I also don't much too much for some new animes(yes I know I like Toriko) I miss Japan's dark anime I call them lol stuff from the 80's and 90's.
Studio 4C, although I wouldn't call the new Thundercats well animated. The storyboarding and the timing of the animation is really bland.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Mon Apr 21, 2014 7:34 pm

Budget is not the problem. Blame the character designer for cheap animation. Yamamuro is the one responsible for all the terrible quality in animation. Sadly he isn't the same animator as he used to be when he animated in 90's. And I don't even understand why he just doesn't care about the quality work anymore. Unless he wakes up one day and decides to step up his work, that's the reality we all have to deal with.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Chuquita » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:21 pm

I would like to see a new animation supervisor...or even if they were to share it among several places like the series did (there may not have been much consistency due to the number of them, but I did like more than one art style that used to be used) because I'm just so tired of Yamamuro all the time. Even the Jump Tour special seemed like it had a little more variety in it (also that history-tournament special with the watercolors) than the recent stuff. It even makes watching Kai a little refreshing.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:29 pm

Chuquita wrote:I would like to see a new animation supervisor...or even if they were to share it among several places like the series did (there may not have been much consistency due to the number of them, but I did like more than one art style that used to be used) because I'm just so tired of Yamamuro all the time. Even the Jump Tour special seemed like it had a little more variety in it (also that history-tournament special with the watercolors) than the recent stuff. It even makes watching Kai a little refreshing.
Yamamuro Tadayoshi was not involved with Toriko Episode #99 and One Piece Episode #590. Hisada Kazuya, Ide Takeo, and Yokoyama Kenji stuck to his character designs for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods pretty well, though.

Personally, I'd like to see what Tate Naoki could do as character designer of Dragon Ball. It would be a radical departure from Maeda, Nakatsuru, and Yamamuro, but filled with unique shapes and life if he could get talented animators to work with him. Kameda Yoshimichi would also be interesting, considering his ability as a key animator and his previous comments regarding Yamamuro Tadayoshi's character designs as of late.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Mewzard » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:54 am

B wrote:For as much (deserved)crap Toei is given, I think it's fair to acknowledged Dragon Ball had more of a budget than most of these long running shows; most likely due to the clout of the series. The difference is night-and-day if you compared it to things like Digimon, a pseudo-original creation that didn't/doesn't have the buzz of pre-existing source material, or Konjiki no Gash Bell!, another series based off a manga, but one with much, much less star power than DB.
DBZ wasn't actually their highest budgeted anime though:

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/toei- ... 202848398/

"Morishita brought the full range of his skills to bear on Saint Seiya, which was produced in conjunction with Shueisha Inc. and its publication Weekly Shonen Jump. The project ate up large amounts of time and money: Clouds were drawn with multiple gradations, lavish action scenes were common and staffers poured their hearts and souls into the work.

Morishita recalls, "We used far too much cash, and consequently, I was made a producer so I could learn how to disburse funds appropriately."

Morishita then produced the Dragon Ball series--again based on a Weekly Shonen Jump manga story--which led in turn to Dragon Ball Z. "

Apparently, DBZ was the show he was stuck on to teach him how to spend money.

But yeah, Toei has cared about the money made from Marketing over quality of work since the 70s. When they learned they could get mech toys made to make money, they brought back Sentai as Super Sentai, and low ratings became second to toy sales.

Doesn't help their animation has gone downhill in recent years. Digimon ended on a terrible note, Jesus...
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by Vegard Aune » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:21 am

Mewzard wrote:Doesn't help their animation has gone downhill in recent years. Digimon ended on a terrible note, Jesus...
I don't really see any connection between these two sentences, as I found the final episode of Digimon Xros Wars: The Young Hunters Who Leapt Through Time to have some of the best art and animation we've ever gotten out of that franchise. I mean sure, other than the animation of the final episode that series was pretty much terrible on every level, but yeah, I liked how the final episode looked.

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by MarcFBR » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:36 am

Just remember.

Toei killed Kai and then went back to it later, trying to do the rest even cheaper than before.

Xros Wars got a late extension that added more episodes.

Although I never remember much complaints in regards to Xros Wars with animation quality.

Plus, it was better than Savers.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by omegalucas » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:46 am

MarcFBR wrote:Although I never remember much complaints in regards to Xros Wars with animation quality.

Plus, it was better than Savers.
It's not the animation per se, but the drawings themselves (I'm lacking the correct work).
Just watch the episode where
For such an impotant occasion, the drawings seem really subpar.
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Re: why is Toai animation so cheap?

Post by rereboy » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:50 am

VegettoEX wrote:Toei is a business. They are a public company. They are accountable to their shareholders. Their entire goal is to make the most money possible while simultaneously spending the least amount of money possible. They have to also both look for short-timeframe profits while setting up a long-tail business model in an ever-changing world.
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JulieYBM wrote:They're cheap because there is little reason to believe spending any more money and using any better talent will make them any more money than they are now.
Any company that only cares about money, without actually caring about the quality of their products as a matter of principle, is a mediocre company at best.

As consumers and as fans, I feel its our duty to demand that companies try to achieve more than just being mediocre.
samuraix123 wrote:Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself. :? but different folks different strokes :P
The Toriko anime fails at the basics: its WAAAY too inferior to the original work (the manga).

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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:35 am

I thought the previous leaders were on-model, but the actual animation was terrible. The best part of Digimon Xros Wars' third arc was Shida Naotoshi's cuts at the climax of Episode #64. Heck, those were the best of the series near as I can recall. Not even Tomita Yoshikazu's occasional appearances were as good.
Morishita has a strong desire to see his company once again churn out top-notch feature-length movies a la Hakujaden and its many successors. In this regard, the industry veteran's focus and enthusiasm may well serve as a valuable legacy for future Toei Animation staff.
This quote leads me to believe that this is part of why the television department has suffered in terms of focus since early 2010. The scheduling of staff has been more hectic and Toei Animation has begun producing even more television series at a single time. There's less appreciation of the consequence on the television shows when there is less attention from higher-ups. Not that there isn't enough studios and freelancers to pull off good animation should there be the budget compiled by the production committee for them.
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Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?

Post by ABED » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:51 pm

As consumers and as fans, I feel its our duty to demand that companies try to achieve more than just being mediocre.
How do you go about doing that? If you watch and buy the product constantly, doesn't it send a mixed message if you also call it "mediocre?"
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