EDIT - I'm just curious why is it that with Japanese animation they only make their mouth flaps move up and down?(I know some don't have this issue) I never see the mouths match the words that's being said. Is that because they have to make the mouth flaps go up and down and so it won't look funky when other countries has to dub it?
Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
- samuraix123
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3815
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:22 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself.
but different folks different strokes 
EDIT - I'm just curious why is it that with Japanese animation they only make their mouth flaps move up and down?(I know some don't have this issue) I never see the mouths match the words that's being said. Is that because they have to make the mouth flaps go up and down and so it won't look funky when other countries has to dub it?
EDIT - I'm just curious why is it that with Japanese animation they only make their mouth flaps move up and down?(I know some don't have this issue) I never see the mouths match the words that's being said. Is that because they have to make the mouth flaps go up and down and so it won't look funky when other countries has to dub it?
Last edited by samuraix123 on Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Dragonboxes are like a middle aged woman who still looks good through simply taking good care of her skin and body with maybe a tiny bit of makeup while the Orange Bricks are like a middle aged woman who get's 50 tons of botox, makeup and plastic surgery in order to look younger and as a result looks even worse. ~ ringworm128
Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years!
#1 Paikuhan fan!
Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years!
#1 Paikuhan fan!
- Blade
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2267
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
- Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
The problem with how Toei appears to Westerners has a lot to do with how Anime is often viewed as being an artisan product with invariably high production values.
The truth is that Toei have never been a company that aspires to the calibre of craft that the likes of Bones or Ghibli do. Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
That's not to say I'm defending their recent production cuts to One Piece or the shambles that is the Buu arc of Kai, both of which I feel very strongly about, but I just feel that a lot of Westerners assume that every animation studio in Japan is working to the same remit and principles.
The truth is that Toei have never been a company that aspires to the calibre of craft that the likes of Bones or Ghibli do. Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
That's not to say I'm defending their recent production cuts to One Piece or the shambles that is the Buu arc of Kai, both of which I feel very strongly about, but I just feel that a lot of Westerners assume that every animation studio in Japan is working to the same remit and principles.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
- Looneygamemaster
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:40 pm
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Umm...are you saying that Toei does better animation work than what you see in western animation?Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
Because...I don't think that's true.
- Blade
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2267
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:45 pm
- Location: Contrary to popular belief, not on Kanzenshuu forums.
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.Looneygamemaster wrote:Umm...are you saying that Toei does better animation work than what you see in western animation?Whilst Toei may be considered cheap in comparison to the aforementioned studios, their standards of practice still trounce those of the sorts of productions that are put together by, or for, the Western market.
Because...I don't think that's true.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Certain aspects might be more dynamic (at times, depending on the show), but actual better quality animation... nope.Blade wrote:When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.
Visit The Fanboy Review for anime reviews.
- Looneygamemaster
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 6:40 pm
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Nothing they've animated has the fluidity and life of Adventure Time. Especially nowadays, when their directorial skill (or lack thereof) can't cover up how static and clunky everything looks.When it comes to stuff aimed at a 9am weekend TV kids audience, yeah - by a total country mile.
- samuraix123
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3815
- Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:22 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Who animated the new Thundercats anime/cartoon? because that looked amazing! 1 thing that kinda gets me about new animation(Not saying Toei here because I haven't seen nor do I know enough about ''NEW'' anime in general) is when you see some people in the distances they ain't got no faces lol I also don't much too much for some new animes(yes I know I like Toriko) I miss Japan's dark anime I call them lol stuff from the 80's and 90's.
The Dragonboxes are like a middle aged woman who still looks good through simply taking good care of her skin and body with maybe a tiny bit of makeup while the Orange Bricks are like a middle aged woman who get's 50 tons of botox, makeup and plastic surgery in order to look younger and as a result looks even worse. ~ ringworm128
Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years!
#1 Paikuhan fan!
Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years!
#1 Paikuhan fan!
- DBZGTKOSDH
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 12401
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
- Location: Greece
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Don't get me wrong, I like the anime, and I really enjoyed it (by watching it before the manga though). But it's just the fact that being no blood makes it both unrealistic and incomplete. It could have been far better though, and they ruined Ichiryu vs Midora fight by not only removing the blood, but also by cutting scenes. It could have been far better than it was, and I hope they will take a more serious tone if they continue with the Gourmet World arc.samuraix123 wrote:Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself.but different folks different strokes
![]()
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
- Attitudefan
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2963
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
The well animated episodes of Dragon Ball still look great even today. The well animated episodes didn't age badly unlike the Last House episodes which look very dated.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Studio 4C, although I wouldn't call the new Thundercats well animated. The storyboarding and the timing of the animation is really bland.samuraix123 wrote:Who animated the new Thundercats anime/cartoon? because that looked amazing! 1 thing that kinda gets me about new animation(Not saying Toei here because I haven't seen nor do I know enough about ''NEW'' anime in general) is when you see some people in the distances they ain't got no faces lol I also don't much too much for some new animes(yes I know I like Toriko) I miss Japan's dark anime I call them lol stuff from the 80's and 90's.
- DragonBalllKaiHD
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2734
- Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:37 pm
- Location: Texas
- Contact:
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Budget is not the problem. Blame the character designer for cheap animation. Yamamuro is the one responsible for all the terrible quality in animation. Sadly he isn't the same animator as he used to be when he animated in 90's. And I don't even understand why he just doesn't care about the quality work anymore. Unless he wakes up one day and decides to step up his work, that's the reality we all have to deal with.
Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru's #1 biggest fan
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
I would like to see a new animation supervisor...or even if they were to share it among several places like the series did (there may not have been much consistency due to the number of them, but I did like more than one art style that used to be used) because I'm just so tired of Yamamuro all the time. Even the Jump Tour special seemed like it had a little more variety in it (also that history-tournament special with the watercolors) than the recent stuff. It even makes watching Kai a little refreshing.
On hiatus.
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Yamamuro Tadayoshi was not involved with Toriko Episode #99 and One Piece Episode #590. Hisada Kazuya, Ide Takeo, and Yokoyama Kenji stuck to his character designs for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods pretty well, though.Chuquita wrote:I would like to see a new animation supervisor...or even if they were to share it among several places like the series did (there may not have been much consistency due to the number of them, but I did like more than one art style that used to be used) because I'm just so tired of Yamamuro all the time. Even the Jump Tour special seemed like it had a little more variety in it (also that history-tournament special with the watercolors) than the recent stuff. It even makes watching Kai a little refreshing.
Personally, I'd like to see what Tate Naoki could do as character designer of Dragon Ball. It would be a radical departure from Maeda, Nakatsuru, and Yamamuro, but filled with unique shapes and life if he could get talented animators to work with him. Kameda Yoshimichi would also be interesting, considering his ability as a key animator and his previous comments regarding Yamamuro Tadayoshi's character designs as of late.
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
DBZ wasn't actually their highest budgeted anime though:B wrote:For as much (deserved)crap Toei is given, I think it's fair to acknowledged Dragon Ball had more of a budget than most of these long running shows; most likely due to the clout of the series. The difference is night-and-day if you compared it to things like Digimon, a pseudo-original creation that didn't/doesn't have the buzz of pre-existing source material, or Konjiki no Gash Bell!, another series based off a manga, but one with much, much less star power than DB.
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/toei- ... 202848398/
"Morishita brought the full range of his skills to bear on Saint Seiya, which was produced in conjunction with Shueisha Inc. and its publication Weekly Shonen Jump. The project ate up large amounts of time and money: Clouds were drawn with multiple gradations, lavish action scenes were common and staffers poured their hearts and souls into the work.
Morishita recalls, "We used far too much cash, and consequently, I was made a producer so I could learn how to disburse funds appropriately."
Morishita then produced the Dragon Ball series--again based on a Weekly Shonen Jump manga story--which led in turn to Dragon Ball Z. "
Apparently, DBZ was the show he was stuck on to teach him how to spend money.
But yeah, Toei has cared about the money made from Marketing over quality of work since the 70s. When they learned they could get mech toys made to make money, they brought back Sentai as Super Sentai, and low ratings became second to toy sales.
Doesn't help their animation has gone downhill in recent years. Digimon ended on a terrible note, Jesus...
RIDER KIIIIIIICK!
- Vegard Aune
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1155
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:38 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
I don't really see any connection between these two sentences, as I found the final episode of Digimon Xros Wars: The Young Hunters Who Leapt Through Time to have some of the best art and animation we've ever gotten out of that franchise. I mean sure, other than the animation of the final episode that series was pretty much terrible on every level, but yeah, I liked how the final episode looked.Mewzard wrote:Doesn't help their animation has gone downhill in recent years. Digimon ended on a terrible note, Jesus...
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
Just remember.
Toei killed Kai and then went back to it later, trying to do the rest even cheaper than before.
Xros Wars got a late extension that added more episodes.
Although I never remember much complaints in regards to Xros Wars with animation quality.
Plus, it was better than Savers.
Toei killed Kai and then went back to it later, trying to do the rest even cheaper than before.
Xros Wars got a late extension that added more episodes.
Although I never remember much complaints in regards to Xros Wars with animation quality.
Plus, it was better than Savers.
Visit The Fanboy Review for anime reviews.
- omegalucas
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1407
- Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:04 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
It's not the animation per se, but the drawings themselves (I'm lacking the correct work).MarcFBR wrote:Although I never remember much complaints in regards to Xros Wars with animation quality.
Plus, it was better than Savers.
Just watch the episode where
Spoiler:
DragonBoxZTheMovies wrote:Kanzenshuu! We annoy voice actors, get composers fired....and occasionally talk about Dragon Ball
Re: why is Toai animation so cheap?
VegettoEX wrote:Toei is a business. They are a public company. They are accountable to their shareholders. Their entire goal is to make the most money possible while simultaneously spending the least amount of money possible. They have to also both look for short-timeframe profits while setting up a long-tail business model in an ever-changing world.
sintzu wrote:If you had a big company would you bother to put more time and money into your products knowing you will get the same or close to the same results in sales as if you haden't ?
Any company that only cares about money, without actually caring about the quality of their products as a matter of principle, is a mediocre company at best.JulieYBM wrote:They're cheap because there is little reason to believe spending any more money and using any better talent will make them any more money than they are now.
As consumers and as fans, I feel its our duty to demand that companies try to achieve more than just being mediocre.
The Toriko anime fails at the basics: its WAAAY too inferior to the original work (the manga).samuraix123 wrote:Meh...I have a different opinion on Toriko. It's the first anime that I've watched in a long long time that actually makes me feel happy and laugh a-lot when I watch it. so far I haven't ran into these annoying characters?(watched all 4 parts) I don't care if it has little to no blood. I don't need to see gallons of blood to be satisfied myself.but different folks different strokes
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
I thought the previous leaders were on-model, but the actual animation was terrible. The best part of Digimon Xros Wars' third arc was Shida Naotoshi's cuts at the climax of Episode #64. Heck, those were the best of the series near as I can recall. Not even Tomita Yoshikazu's occasional appearances were as good.
This quote leads me to believe that this is part of why the television department has suffered in terms of focus since early 2010. The scheduling of staff has been more hectic and Toei Animation has begun producing even more television series at a single time. There's less appreciation of the consequence on the television shows when there is less attention from higher-ups. Not that there isn't enough studios and freelancers to pull off good animation should there be the budget compiled by the production committee for them.Morishita has a strong desire to see his company once again churn out top-notch feature-length movies a la Hakujaden and its many successors. In this regard, the industry veteran's focus and enthusiasm may well serve as a valuable legacy for future Toei Animation staff.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20481
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Sarasota, FL
- Contact:
Re: Why is Toei Animation so cheap?
How do you go about doing that? If you watch and buy the product constantly, doesn't it send a mixed message if you also call it "mediocre?"As consumers and as fans, I feel its our duty to demand that companies try to achieve more than just being mediocre.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.








