Legendary Super Saiyan, Ascended?

[chibi_goten]

Is there any similarities between Ascended Saiyan and Legendary Super Saiyan?

I was watching the first Broli movie a few days ago and when he transforms he looks as such,



Now the image on the left is regular Super Saiyan but on the right it looks ascended.



Next, Trunks on the left Super Saiyan again on the right ascended.


Now this makes me to believe that Broli was born a Super Saiyan and thats why he got the title ''The Legendary Super Saiyan'' as he was the first Super Saiyan anybody had seen for thousands of years and through his training and fights as he got older he got to the status of being ascended.

Anybody have any ideas?

[jwimz]

VegettoEX talks about this on his site. Scroll down the page to get to the section with Broli.

[The Tori-bot]

In flashbacks in movie 8, Broli isn't seen as a Super Saiya-jin until at least his early 20s, since, before that, as a child, when he was destroying a city, he isn't SSJ.

And in the flashback where he looks slightly younger, as an SSJ, and there was something about it that just made me think, "first time".

And I think he just ascended to SSJ 2nd Grade and UUSJ over the years, until he got to the peak of his power and malice, and became the Legendary Super Saiya-jin. That was probably when Paragus decided to get the remote-control invented, to control and compress his power.

Of course, you could just say "it's a movie", and run away...

[D.G.]

I worked out a theory on Burori about a year ago, to explain his slightly different transformations. Lemme see how well I remember it. There are at least two major arguments for Burori being the LSSJ:

Aura: He has the odd, slightly green aura, never seen in another SSJ. There are only two other characters with this same greenish aura, Lord Slug and Bojack. (Movie characters, yes, but permissable since Burori is as well.) Bojack was a demon, therefore totally evil; Slug is stated to be an 'altered' Nameksei-Jin, therefore almost anything goes with him. My theory is that this evil 'soul', if you will, affects the way their auras appear.

Power level: He was born with a power of 10,000, an insanely high number for even a Saiya-Jin child. Simply put, no-one is that strong at birth except him. However, flashback to the manga, on Namek. Ginyu comments about Goku being a mutation, like himself, someone born with a particular aptitude for fighting. The word 'mutation' denotes something physically different, which makes it possible that Burori is a mutation in the extreme, and it affected his power level.

Bottom line, I just don't believe he was the LSSJ. He was powerful, yes, and he has chacteristics that don't fit in with normal SSJ, but there are betetr ways to explain it than him being the LSSJ.

I had other notes, but I can't remember them now, sadly. I also put it much more convincingly than this lol.

[chibi_goten]

It says it does not have the weaknesses on the website, but how are we to know Broly isn't the fastest guy in the world anyways he may be faster when he isn't in his ascended ( big muscle mode or whatever) you don't get to see and it isn't clear.


No one knows for certain I just want to throw some ideas around.

[Majin Cell]

I have always thought of Brolly as a mutant like the Ginyu Force members. That would explain why he was so much stronger than almost all the other Saiyans when he was born. As well as why he's so big, has pupiless eyes and a different aura than the other Super Saiyans. Oh and while I'm talking about Brolly I would just like to say that he not the Legendary Super Saiyan. Why ? Because the entire idea of the Legendary Super Saiyan was discarded after the Freeza saga. Originally it was supposed to be Goku. But when DragonBall continued and other Saiyans started to become Super Saiyans , then Super Saiyan wasn't all that special anymore. Besides even if the idea was still around for the rest of DragonBall it still wouldn't be Brolly because the Legendary Super Saiyan is supposed to be the strongest fighter in the universe and Brolly is greatly surpassed by Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, the Saiyan Fusions as well as all the major villains that appear after Brolly. *phew* Ok, I'm done ranting.

[Godo]

Of course, you could just say "it's a movie", and run away...

I agree totally.
Otherwise if you are interested in my opinion you can find what I think in the link in my signature. (NOT the deviantart one). Too lazy to write...

[maiku84]

I always thought the pupilless eyes were because he was a berserker in his 'true' form -- unlike the other characters who reached the level of Super Saiyan, who maintained some self-control. ... or something like that.

[chibi_goten]

When you see Trunks powering up to an ascended Saiyan his muscles bulk up and his pupils disapear.

[VegettoEX]

transforming to ascended

This doesn't even make sense.

[chibi_goten]

Thanks VegettoEX,

Sorry my bad, I edited it.

I knew what I meant to say, heh but no one else could understand it!

[MartianOddity]

There isn't such thing as a Legendary Super Saiyan. I believe it happed so rarely that it eventually became a legend. Those who became Super Saiyans killed themselves when they were at it, along with everyone they saw, and didn't pass on the secret of the transformation.
In contrary to those former Super Saiyans, Goku survived and passed the secret on to saiyans in his surroundings.

Anyways, to return to Brolly:

He's a freak of nature and shouldn't be allowed to exist.
No, seriously, as he is insane I would like to compare him to other genetical different creatures: alongside with great muscle strength aquired at birth, the brain power (IQ) normally goes down dramatically. Many mentally disabled people are much stronger than mentally healthy people. I have a cousin that's mentally disabled, and he's really, really strong, he has never excersized at all, yet he's naturally strong.
Because of that, we can conclude that Brolly is righteously mentally disabled (in his case, insane).
His "Legendary Super Saiyan" transformation might just be a "bonus" from his genetic mutation.

[Saiyan]

Well, first thing's first..."Ascended" Super Saiyan or..the "Super" form (like.."Super" Vegeta) is totally different than Brolli's transformation.

For argument's sake, let's compare Trunks to Brolli. Trunks basically powered up his ki, increasing his muscle mass, and therefore increasing his strength. The loss of his pupils is due to an extreme rush of power (as shown in Goku's first Super Saiyan transformation, as they return again right after).

However, Trunks ONLY increases his muscle mass, which is different than Brolli. Brolli, when transforms into his Legendary Super Saiyan state not only increases muscle mass, but his height as well, therefore eliminating the ascended problem. Also, his pupils aren't seen during the whole time, also giving us reason that it is a different kind of transformation.

Phew.

Also, people mentioned a mutation. That's probably the most likely choice. However, I disagree with The Martian Oddity about his intellect decrease and strength increase. I feel that during Movie 8, he's uncontrollable, just like how Goku was when with his grandfather. It's simply that he's much stronger, and therefore harder to control.

Not only that, but he sustained many injuries (stabbed by another person when a babie resulting in blood loss, possibly suffered oxygen loss to the brain when Vegeta exploded, blood loss and oxygen loss when frozen under the surface [Movie 10]).

[LegendarySSJ7]

The 7th Daizenshuu labels Broli in his hulking Super Saiya-jin form as "Legendary Super Saiya-jin", but that's just another moniker for what's in my eyes, Super Saiya-jin 3rd grade (given that Broli's appearance)... which was also the form Mirai Trunks embraced in combating the most suppressed version of Complete Cell who openly conceded that while he was significantly stronger than himself (at full power), the form proved to be a rather jarring hindrance to speed.... for obvious reasons.

Whether TOEI change certain things, in example - Broli's pupils or hair, or have him faster than he should be, doesn't mean anything, or that it would even allude to Broli making an even higher form that's above even that of a Super Saiya-jin 3rd grade feasible. Look at it this way - just because Broli's hair wasn't bolstered yellow-ish/gold-ish/white-ish as a SSj in Movie 8 doesn't mean he was a Giji SSj; I see it as that way due in part to the deterrent used to take rein of his ire whilst it became vehemently unrestrained (such as in the case of Broli being in Goku's proximity).

...Of course, there's no reason not to be open to speculation on the matter, but I'm just saying.

[Saiyan]

Well, I actually own Daizenshuu 6, which features Brolli in all of his glory...so if you can, I'd actually want to see a translation of that...I can provide the scan.

I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested.

[Mystic Jack]

I'd actually make a inference that was an extremely powered up form of USSJ2 OR if the theory could stand USSJ3! But yeah there are plenty of similarities, "take no pupils and the extremely muscular body" for instance.

[Saiyan]

Yeah, but the definate difference is that Brolli can change his height in order to compensate for the extreme muscle mass...something Trunks or anyone else who has "ascended" the Super Saiyan form.

[cZ33]

As mentioned before, although LSSJ and ASSJ look the same, they are different stages.

Ascended Super Saiya-jin

Abilities
- Muscle mass increases greatly essentially granting the user SSJ2 level power.
- With the great increase in muscle mass, speed takes a severe hit and decreases (as Goku points out in the hyperbolic time chamber).

Appearance:
- Retains same gold super saiyan aura and hair colour.
- Pupils disappear due to an influx in power (as Saiyan mentioned).

Legendary Super Saiya-jin

Abilities:
- Muscle mass increases granting immense power.
- Height increases as well (as Saiyan pointed out), therefore, granting equal proportion between muscle mass and height. As a result, the user retains his speed in this form while getting a massive boost in power. This is something not found in the ASSJ form.
- I believe it was either stated or implied in the film that as Broly kept on fighting his power continually kept on rising (its been awhile since I've seen it). Normally, when one goes SSJ they tend to tire out after awhile due to expending so much ki energy. This may also be sometihng unique to this stage.

Appearance:
- A new greenish/gold aura appears.
- Pupils disappear permanently in this stage.

Based on this, I personally would classify LSSJ as a stage all in its own as it shares nothing in common with other known super saiyan stages. However, it is non-canonical since it did appear in a movie.

[Duo]

Okay, what on earth is an "Ascended Super Saiyan" people? These forms have actual names by the Daizenshuu's authority. Since when did the Dub take presedence?

"Super Saiyan type 2"
"Super Saiyan type 3"

or something similar to such, are the correct names.

- Muscle mass increases greatly essentially granting the user SSJ2 level power.

Uh, no. Super Saiyan 2 is aeons stronger than Super Saiyan type 2 or 3. Heck, Super Saiyan Goku at full power was substantially stronger than Trunks as a Super Saiyan type 3 was. Source = Kuririn (and a boatload of other evidence).

- Height increases as well (as Saiyan pointed out), therefore, granting equal proportion between muscle mass and height. As a result, the user retains his speed in this form while getting a massive boost in power. This is something not found in the ASSJ form.

I've always pondered this assumption made by most. You see, could it not be that the strength gap between Broli and the others was so much greater than the difference between Trunks and Cell that it only seemed that way? Broli didn't have a single moment where he moved faster than the fighters could see, unlike Freeza or Cell at different points. Plus, they were always attacking him head on and seemingly forgot how to dodge.

I don't think Broli "retained" or "increased" his speed so much as his situation was very different from when Trunks fought Cell.

- I believe it was either stated or implied in the film that as Broly kept on fighting his power continually kept on rising (its been awhile since I've seen it). Normally, when one goes SSJ they tend to tire out after awhile due to expending so much ki energy. This may also be sometihng unique to this stage.

Yes, that is stated and something non-color related that seems to be unique to Broli. He pointed out that his Ki kept rising then proceeded to expend it in the form of hailing giant Ki blasts all over the planet.

[cZ33]

Okay, what on earth is an "Ascended Super Saiyan" people? These forms have actual names by the Daizenshuu's authority. Since when did the Dub take presedence?

Sorry Officer Daizenshuu. We'll make sure not to question authority next time.

Uh, no. Super Saiyan 2 is aeons stronger than Super Saiyan type 2 or 3. Heck, Super Saiyan Goku at full power was substantially stronger than Trunks as a Super Saiyan type 3 was. Source = Kuririn (and a boatload of other evidence).

Yea, tis' true. I shouldn't have pulled the ASSJ = SSJ2 in power, card. However, I believe Future Trunks made a comment once saying that ss2 gohan increased his strength without losing his speed. This made me think that he has the power of an SSJ type 3 but retains his speed from SSJ1. I'm probably wrong but this comment by F.T. came to mind.

Broli didn't have a single moment where he moved faster than the fighters could see, unlike Freeza or Cell at different points. Plus, they were always attacking him head on and seemingly forgot how to dodge.

I never said Brolly moved faster. I stated that he kept his original speed from when he was in SSJ1 form. It was never shown that he got slower, otherwise, the z-senshi would have likely exploited/ or mentioned this weakness because by movie 8 Goku and Vegeta would know the weaknesses of SSJ type 2 and 3 (supposing Broly was in one of these states).

Regardless, I still believe LSSJ is a form unto its own. Its quite different from any other SSJ stage we know of.