Out of Character Moments in the series

[dbgtFO]

I find it a bit silly to just assume Gohan should act exactly the same way he did, when he was 4/5 years old. He has obviously matured a bit and so it isn't a surprise, that there will be changes in his behaviour.
That being said it's the author's job to establish these changes so they fit in seamlessly, unless it's due to some backstory, which we first find out about later. In this case it isn't, so of course it's normal to compare his behaviour to how he was before.

Gohan tells Cell he doesn't want to fight and to stop the tournament, despite knowing that Cell would never do so and despite never begging a villain to stop fighting before. Yep. Totally in-character there.

He was out of character because he was naive? And doing something new is also out of character? Gohan was just doing what his father used to do, in his own way, admittedly, but this does not make him out of character.

Gohan doesn't seem the least bit troubled when 16's body is destroyed, yet when Cell crushes his head, he suddenly gives a crap about him more than his friends that are getting beaten to death? 16 should not have been the trigger for Gohan's SSJ2 transformation, his friends getting tortured should have, as that would have actually been in-character.

Again you are stating this, as if it was some established fact.
Gohan at this point couldn't get himself to snap just like back in the earlier arcs. He thought this to himself and it took some wise words from #16 followed by his destruction to finally make him snap. This does not make Gohan out of character.
Gohan needing some adult guidance to act has been shown in a number of situations, like when Piccolo gets him on board with the plan against Nappa or Goku telling Gohan to fight Vegeta before receiving a pounding. And Krillin on Namek instructing him in what to do during the fights.

The rationalizations of Gohan being afraid of his power or Gohan being unable to get over the shock of being stronger than his dad make no sense, as he doesn't show any hints at these things actually bothering him, nor did these things bother him in the past.

This at least is something I would not argue, so I agree.

[thatdbzguy]

Except keeping a character in-character is a highly important factor that should not be screwed up, is absolutely inexcusable, and single-handedly ruins a scene. Basic Writing 101 much, Toriyama?

Yes, but not the only important factor in evaluating a piece of art. While I'm not a big fan of Superman the movie, the part where Superman lets out that primal scream when Lois dies is amazing, even though the rest the scene is badly written.

And you don't really have good reasons for claiming any of this, you just read something negative and latched on to it.

If there's anything you like about the series, the moment someone knocked it, you'd probably agree with them in a heartbeat.

It may not be the only important factor, but it's a factor that can either make or break a scene.

This whole scene with Gohan is damaged beyond repair.

[ABED]

The operative word there is "can". It can, but doesn't always have to.

How is the entire scene ruined? What about everything else? What about the acting and the music?

[thatdbzguy]

The operative word there is "can". It can, but doesn't always have to.

It certainly did here.

How is the entire scene ruined? What about everything else? What about the acting and the music?

The acting and music are completely separate from the writing, which is the most important part of any scene. If you screw the writing up, then the scene is garbage hiding under the bells and whistles of music and acting.

[Kamiccolo9]

How is the entire scene ruined? What about everything else? What about the acting and the music?

The acting and music are completely separate from the writing, which is the most important part of any scene. If you screw the writing up, then the scene is garbage hiding under the bells and whistles of music and acting.

In your opinion.

[TheAldella]

A bunch of stuff that shows you don't know what the word "subjective" means.

In your opinion.

Does....Does that even...Does that even work?

[Kamiccolo9]

A bunch of stuff that shows you don't know what the word "subjective" means.

In your opinion.

Does....Does that even...Does that even work?

Yeah, thought about that after posting. didn't really make much sense, I suppose. I was trying to imply that thatdbzguy doesn't seem to understand that any view on the quality of a piece of entertainment is going to be subjective, and he cannot declare said piece of entertainment to be objectively bad for everybody. Something he would understand, had he not chosen to ignore pretty much every comment made to him in over a dozen threads over the last few months in order to wallow in self pity instead.

[thatdbzguy]

Yeah, thought about that after posting. didn't really make much sense, I suppose. I was trying to imply that thatdbzguy doesn't seem to understand that any view on the quality of a piece of entertainment is going to be subjective, and he cannot declare said piece of entertainment to be objectively bad for everybody. Something he would understand, had he not chosen to ignore pretty much every comment made to him in over a dozen threads over the last few months in order to wallow in self pity instead.

There's nothing subjective about making a character contradict his previously developed character for no reason at all.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah, thought about that after posting. didn't really make much sense, I suppose. I was trying to imply that thatdbzguy doesn't seem to understand that any view on the quality of a piece of entertainment is going to be subjective, and he cannot declare said piece of entertainment to be objectively bad for everybody. Something he would understand, had he not chosen to ignore pretty much every comment made to him in over a dozen threads over the last few months in order to wallow in self pity instead.

There's nothing subjective about making a character contradict his previously developed character for no reason at all.

I was talking about that being enough to ruin the scene. Maybe you should take Penguintruth's comments about reading comprehension to heart?

[Kid Buu]

The Cyborg arc in general was a terrible idea, so it's not really that surprising Toriyama didn't show it.

Could be worse.

Could be the Buu Arc.

[thatdbzguy]

Yeah, thought about that after posting. didn't really make much sense, I suppose. I was trying to imply that thatdbzguy doesn't seem to understand that any view on the quality of a piece of entertainment is going to be subjective, and he cannot declare said piece of entertainment to be objectively bad for everybody. Something he would understand, had he not chosen to ignore pretty much every comment made to him in over a dozen threads over the last few months in order to wallow in self pity instead.

There's nothing subjective about making a character contradict his previously developed character for no reason at all.

I was talking about that being enough to ruin the scene. Maybe you should take Penguintruth's comments about reading comprehension to heart?

How does having a character completely contradict his previously developed character for no reason at all not ruin a scene? Everything else like music and such are just bells and whistles that they use to cover up turds like this.

[Kamiccolo9]

How does having a character completely contradict his previously developed character for no reason at all not ruin a scene? Everything else like music and such are just bells and whistles that they use to cover up turds like this.

Because some people may care more about the "bells and whistles" then they do about over-analyzing a scene? Rule of cool can excuse a lot, especially in children's entertainment.

[ABED]

that "everything else and such" include things like acting, which is pretty darn important to making a scene work. That's hardly bells and whistles. Music is also important, it can help or detract from a scene.

[mAcChaos]

Gohan snapped when Dodoria was about to kill Dende (Someone he'd never met until that point), so I don't see how that's really any different from 16's death being the final trigger.

Well, Dende is a child, so that's easier to believe.

16 just finished giving him a speech about how he believes the same stuff Gohan does.

[ABED]

Gohan snapped when Dodoria was about to kill Dende (Someone he'd never met until that point), so I don't see how that's really any different from 16's death being the final trigger.

Well, Dende is a child, so that's easier to believe.

16 just finished giving him a speech about how he believes the same stuff Gohan does.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, and I never took it as him telling Gohan that they share the same beliefs. It came off more like the one thing Gohan needed to hear in order to fight with everything he had to kill Cell.

[goku the krump dancer]

To me an out of character moment is when a character does something that completely stands out from their established personality both prior too and after said moment. Gohan has multiple moments through out the entirety of Z where he snaps, shows willingness to fight and reluctantcy as well.

Saiyan arc :

He snaps when Goku gets beat up by Raditz and when Piccolo dies.
Shows reluctancy when trying to finish off the team attach on Nappa.
Willfully turns back to go help his dad fight Vegeta.

Freeza arc:

Snaps when Dende is about to be killed and when Freeza is barraging Piccolo with his energy bullets.
Shows willingness to fight against the Ginyu force (though he didn't have much of a choice anyway).
Doesn't snap or attemp to attack Freeza when he kills Krillin and incompasitates Piccolo.

Androids/Cell arc:

Volunteers to help fight the androids..
Filled with self doubt and emmense pressure he's reluctant to seriously fight Cell.
Finally snaps when 16 is killed.

Boo arc:

Starts to lose his cool when Videl is getting beat up.
Willfully fights Dabra and Super Boo ( though in the case with Boo he didn't have much of a choice).
Filled with doubt he's isn't sure he's reluctant to fight Boo upon hatching and even before that he makes a half hearted attempt at trying to stop the hatching.. Further more he even opts to run away but was forced to fight because Boo was just too fast to get away from.

[ABED]

It's not the snapping that some consider out of character, it's the reluctance. Yes, he's been reluctant before, but based on where Gohan was at in the series, he wouldn't be reluctant to fight a creature as evil as Cell.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't exactly consider voice acting and music enough to redeem that scene, both because I'm primarily talking about the manga and because Nozawa's voice acting makes me want to pull a Piccolo.

[ABED]

I don't exactly consider voice acting and music enough to redeem that scene, both because I'm primarily talking about the manga and because Nozawa's voice acting makes me want to pull a Piccolo.

You don't like Nozawa?

[RandomGuy96]

It's a rather simple matter of me just being annoyed by the sound of her voice.