Did Goku die at the end of GT at all?(The 100 years after)

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:41 pm

Domon wrote:Really, can't we have one thread about GT without someone bashing it? It really gets tiresomes seeing the expression "GT was one big plothole" every time this series gets brought up.

I'm afraid not. Some people hated GT so much (not me mind you) that it's become like a wound on the entire series. And just like a wound, if somebody touches on it your first reaction is to lash out. DragonBall fans don't like being reminded of something they hated so badly.

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:36 am

At the GT Dragon Box's Dragon Book, there's a Q&A section where "they" ask what happened in the end of GT (obviously). While I didn't read most of that (and don't understand most of those kanjis), I could grasp that it said Goku had really died when Ii Xing Long attacked him creating that huge crater (but it was a different level of death, one... permanent, I think) but he was allowed some more time to finish him off, or it was his determination to kill Ii Xing Long that let him stay "alive" some additional minutes.

Anyway, could someone that has the GT Dragon Box's Dragon Book please translate the answer?

t0ffe3m4n · Post by **t0ffe3m4n** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:43 pm

Domon wrote:Really, can't we have one thread about GT without someone bashing it? It really gets tiresomes seeing the expression "GT was one big plothole" every time this series gets brought up.

qft. Believe it or not, some of us here actually liked it...

majix101 · Post by **majix101** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:04 pm

I don't see the big deal either, it was a 64 episode closing that i enjoyed.

Enraged_Goomba wrote:
desirecampbell wrote:
Enraged_Goomba wrote:The ending of GT was just a way to rap up the series when the people at Toei ran out of ideas. Well, that's how I think of it...
No! Now it's in my head! Curse you!
Sorry. I didn't realize I was hiding subliminal messages!

I did not catch that one? Guess you did not see it in japanese.

SkylarEC · Post by **SkylarEC** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:17 am

Actually, I think the ending of couldn't be more clear.

1) I'm pretty sure Goku did not die at the end of GT, since the narrator says he "...takes his leave to await the day he is needed once again." And then there's the fact that Goku doesn't have a halo over his head in either the last episode when he is watching the tournament, or when he appears to Goku Jr. one hundred years later.

2) And since Goku has appeared not to have aged during the one hundred year span, one can assume that he does not age. Which is usually a very strong indicator of immortality.

3) As seen when the final dragon absorbs the dragon balls into himself, the powers of the balls are transferred into the absorbee.

4) Shenlong was obviously aware of the goings on on Earth, since he appeared at his own will and knew of everything that has happened, and every detail of the story.

5) We know from Dragon Ball that Shenlong himself is not very powerful at all.

We have no idea what the dragon world where Shenlong resides is like, but given these facts, I think it's safe to say that upon seeing the evil power of all the dragons, Shenlong went into hiding.

When he saw a break where he could make his move, Shenlong made Goku immortal; right before, or maybe immediately after Goku was hit by that blast. This would explain that while SSJ4 Goku was completely outclassed, normal state kid Goku was able to withstand full force energy blasts thrown at him. Also, this makes more sense than Goku being allowed to live for a few extra minutes, as one of those blastas would surely have killed him again.

I also believe that when the dragon balls absorbed themselves into Goku, this was symbolic of the dragon giving Goku his powers. In essence making Goku into the closest thing to a god that exists in the Dragon Universe.

ChaotixXero · Post by **ChaotixXero** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:33 am

The closest thing to a god? Kami was a god and he appeared around the end of Dragonball.

SkylarEC · Post by **SkylarEC** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:03 am

I mean the closest thing to what we would consider a god in our universe. And I consider Kami just another Namekian. He just had the title of Guardian of the Earth.

Mystic Jack · Post by **Mystic Jack** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:49 am

It's difficult to say really some people have a point that Goku MIGHT have fused with Shenlong, But you know I kinda agree with Skylar EC, even though none of us can really prove it, we're just making inferences.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:21 pm

SkylarEC wrote:I mean the closest thing to what we would consider a god in our universe. And I consider Kami just another Namekian. He just had the title of Guardian of the Earth.

Well, Kami-sama was God, but he just wasn't immortal as we consider "Gods" in "real life" to be. I used "quotation" marks in certain places because not all people believe in it all.

And when it comes to GT being "one giant plothole". I disagree completely. The Super #17 Saga was one big plot hole, though. You gotta take more than the usual grain of salt that you would with a movie for that. I need at least a full cup of salt to forgive #17 having ki.

scottdahl · Post by **scottdahl** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:36 pm

At the end of Dragon Ball Goku and Ubuu fley off, So Goku is still alive.

If Akira Toriyama was to happen to do more manga I bet he would ignore GT.

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:53 am

My impression was that Shenron finally let Goku's spirit be put to rest. It wouldve sucked for Goku if he grew up the normal way. By the time he would reach his adult form again, all his friends would be dead.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:13 pm

I guess I'll add my 2 cents.

When I watched Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children, I began thinking about the end of GT (don't ask me why). I guess that I've come to the conclusion that Goku is sort of an Immortal "Ghost". Like Aerith and Zack was in the movie (however Goku isn't really 'dead') He is there in the background, encouraging and looking over his family. He would leave the protection of earth on the people and his family will always be there in case someone comes to earth wanting a fight (Goku Jr.) At this point I've been coming up with my own "AF" type of story, but I'll spare you from that story.

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:56 pm

SkylarEC your theory is favorite I think.

Here are some quick questions,

Who would roam the Earth for 100 years by themself?

Would not live with his family or speak with his friends when they are still alive and he is able to get around the world quite freely?

Wouldn't people be able to sense him at all?

No one knows what happend, I hate GT I really do I think its the worst thing to happen to the series.

I don't know why Toriyama let it go like that, it is nothing like Dragonball or Dragonball Z.

I don't even consider it as being apart of the series, I hope it disapears and never comes back, thats what my wish would be If I had some Dragonballs!

I really hope he writes some more which forget about GT, and how fucking bent it is!

You have no idea how much I hate this show, unless you hate and get pissed as soon as you hear it!

veshira · Post by **veshira** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:06 pm

Who would roam the Earth for 100 years by themself?

Would not live with his family or speak with his friends when they are still alive and he is able to get around the world quite freely?

Wouldn't people be able to sense him at all?

Well, the thing is, it appears as though Goku went to wherever it is Shenlong goes when he isn't summoned via the Dragon Balls. So he wasn't really on Earth, in a sense. (He slept with Shenlong for a hundred years... Oh my.)

I don't know why Toriyama let it go like that, it is nothing like Dragonball or Dragonball Z.

In his defense, I don't think he actually wrote the series. He didn't have quite that much power of the show. (Can someone back me up on this? With facts, preferably?

)

SkylarEC · Post by **SkylarEC** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:58 am

chibi_goten wrote:Who would roam the Earth for 100 years by themself?

Would not live with his family or speak with his friends when they are still alive and he is able to get around the world quite freely?

Wouldn't people be able to sense him at all?

Well, first of all, We don't know what happened during the last hundred years. Who says he is raoming the Earth? At this point, Goku could probably get pretty much wherever in the universe he darn well feels like.

As for his friends and family, I like to think that he does visit with everybody in the otherworld.

As for why he wouldn't keep chummy with the people still on Earth, well Goku says during the Buu saga that he might have been able to defeat Fat Buu himself as a SSj3. But he didn't because he wanted Goten and Trunks to protect the Earth. Since he knew he wouldn't be around forever. Through this, we can only assume that Goku is not on Earth becasue he doesn't belong there. The Earth has its warriors to take care of her, and Goku will not interfere unless he has to.

As for whether or not anyone can sense him, well they probably can. That's the people that can sense power, anyway. Remember, not even Vegeta was able to sense power before coming to Earth. And he didn't quite have the ability mastered whie on Namek.

But again, this is only my opinion, so take it with a grain or two of salt.

Majin Buu · Post by **Majin Buu** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:56 am

Well Shenlong says that the Dragonballs will vanish (persumably out of existance) along with himself. Assuming that happens after the dragonballs are absorbed into Goku and he vanishes, I'd say he died but it was a more final form of death than the one the anime portrayed throughout Z and GT. One that was more permenant, like there's nothing after death this time.

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:52 pm

You also the the Dragonballs in the GT special.

Nobody knows what happend and thats the sad part,

Toriyama should have seen the story and everything else that went with GT before he give them the right to release it.

He should have stopped it, it doesn't go with Dragonball or GT.

This is proven by the amount of hate for the show!

Fair enough the guy made some money, but he could have let it go to another bidder with a better story sticking to the roots and style of the previous series.

ulisa · Post by **ulisa** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:18 pm

Ah, the mystery of GT...I for one actually enjoyed this series, if not as much as the other two. Many of the theories posted already I liked. I'm still not for sure what happened to Goku when he vanished with Shenlong but here's my best guess.

First off, I don't think the Dragonballs vanished forever. We see them again in the GT special so I was under the impression that Shenlong removed them until earth basically learned to fend for itself. By the time Goku Junior comes along, the dragonballs have basically become as they were before: a legend.

As for the Dragonballs dissolving into Goku, I saw Goku as becoming almost a guardian for the Dragonballs, if not for Earth itself. He wanted Goten and Trunks and the others to learn how to defend it without him after all. Yet this entire epic started with Goku's Grandpa's Dragonball so I think it'd be just like him to take over protecting them or at least having some kind of influence over them. I also like to think that Goku is able to see his family and friends. He gave an impression at the end that this wasn't a final goodbye.

Those are my two cents on the topic:)

Ulisa

swift03 · Post by **swift03** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:41 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the Goku jr tv special made right after the bebi saga? Since the dragonballs started cracking at the end of the Super 17 saga, so according to the TV special the dragonballs should have always been around. That means Goku never absorbed them and never became Shenron(as some people say he became).

EDIT:I edited my post, sorry about my horrible grammar.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:12 am

swift03 wrote:correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt the goku jr tv special made right after the bebi saga? and the dragonballs started cracking at the end of the super 17 saga... so i think according to the tv special the dragonballs were always around and goku didnt absorb them

Posts like this will not be tolerated. Please type properly.