What's with the love for filler?

[Freeza Soldier #156]

Do people not understand anime needs filler for the manga to get further?

We all understand that perfectly. We are all well aware that due to the nature of how these types of shows are aired in Japan (year-round) that filler is just par for the course. The problem most people have with the filler in Dragon Ball is that a lot of it is just not that good. Much of the filler is poorly written, poorly executed, and/or just plain boring. Not only that, some of the filler even ends up contradicting things that happen in the series. If the staff had just taken the time and effort to plan out and write decent filler, we would all probably be sitting here praising it. As many people have said, not all of the filler is bad and there were times where it seems the staff had a creative spark and put some passion into the work.

[andrewtuell1991]

True, I think the Saiyan arc is too short in the manga.

51 chapters doesn't seem that short to me. It's longer than anything that came before it.

The training isn't long.

10 straight episodes (9-18) is short!? Not to mention the Gregory episode (20) making it 11 altogether.

I think that filler helps build tension and Gohan's character.

I don't understand how making friends with random creatures and kids that are never referenced again really builds Gohan's character. Plus it creates an OOC plot-hole later on when he runs away from Nappa.

Sometimes filler helps things look more epic than in the manga. For example SSJ transformations.
In the manga it was just boom! Goku has spiky white hair now while in the anime you had Goku struggling to properly attain the form as his power fluctuated, you had the awesome lightning storm backdrop and the veins and pupils disappear as he screams and gets covered in a golden aura

All that lightning and levitating rubble always seemed unnecessary to me. Just another excuse to drag the anime out as long as possible. I prefer the manga's pacing, he snaps and bam! He's SSJ! Much more fitting IMO.

Do people not understand anime needs filler for the manga to get further?

Why can't Japanese animation studios understand that it's unnecessary to crank out episodes year-round? Seriously is there some kinda law that the enforces this or is it a cultural thing or... Someone help me understand this! They've been doing since the days of Mighty Atom and Jungle Emperor Leo.

If only Toei could've made 13-15 episodes a year instead of 45-50, we could've had Kai of both DB and DBZ from the start and been done with this mess already.

[Gaffer Tape]

True, I think the Saiyan arc is too short in the manga.

51 chapters doesn't seem that short to me. It's longer than anything that came before it.

Red Ribbon is 58. And I'm not sure where you're getting 51. By my count it's only 47 chapters long.

I don't understand how making friends with random creatures and kids that are never referenced again really builds Gohan's character. Plus it creates an OOC plot-hole later on when he runs away from Nappa.

Never understood why people consider that a plot hole. Being able to survive on one's own without being a crybaby is far and away a different thing than being able to stand up to a vicious psychopath who has already managed to be involved in the deaths of two of the adults surrounding you. But I've never liked that the manga has him go from pampered crybaby to happily roughing it with absolutely no context.

[ABED]

Much of the length is the beginning and the fight against the Saiyans. There's

You are writing in hyperbole, he makes friends with one dinosaur, and it's hardly an episode that's about how great it is to have friends, it's where Gohan learns a harsh lesson about the world. Those episodes show Gohan grew up within that year. He doesn't just go from sheltered child to fighter in the span of a chapter.

I don't see the plot hole, there's a world of difference between having resolve to fight and fighting someone trying to kill you, especially when you are a child. And why do those kids need to be referenced again? The show wasn't about them, it was about the lesson he learned.

10 straight episodes (9-18) is short!? Not to mention the Gregory episode (20) making it 11 altogether.

I thought I was clear from context that I was talking about the manga and Kai.

He's SSJ! Much more fitting IMO.

Except it's like turning on a light bulb, hardly the moment it should be.

13-15 a YEAR? 20-25 is a pretty good number.

[andrewtuell1991]

Red Ribbon is 58. And I'm not sure where you're getting 51. By my count it's only 47 chapters long.

It's only 58 if you group Uranai Baba with it... which I usually do, so point taken. The 51 comes from the Colored Manga new division of 195-245. 245 just seems a better stopping point than 241.

But I've never liked that the manga has him go from pampered crybaby to happily roughing it with absolutely no context.

When it comes to Dragon Ball and training, or any other anime really, for me, all they need to do is show a few brief segments of training before a time-skip to be satisfied.

Allow me to make an analogy, Luke Skywalker from Star Wars. In Empire, we see only rather brief training segments between him and Yoda before he takes off to Cloud City. Apparently, a lot more training went on between Empire and Jedi, none of which we the viewers saw.

When we Luke again in Jedi, he's much different and mature than the brash kid from the end of Empire. All of his training and maturation happened off-screen. Now, was it absolutely necessary to see or explain every minute detail of his training with Yoda between the two films? To me, no. But to each their own I suppose.

I thought I was clear from context that I was talking about the manga and Kai.

Re-read the post again and whoops, my bad! Still could've done without Gregory though.

Except it's like turning on a light bulb, hardly the moment it should be.

What's wrong with it being a light-bulb moment? Goku snaps and viola, SSJ! To me, the actual moment of the transformation in and of itself isn't the thing that should be hyped. It's the actions the follow it, Goku humiliating Freeza, that are much more highlight worthy.

13-15 a YEAR? 20-25 is a pretty good number.

13 is about how much a season of a western cartoon lasts. I don't see the problem.

[Kamiccolo9]

When we Luke again in Jedi, he's much different and mature than the brash kid from the end of Empire. All of his training and maturation happened off-screen. Now, was it absolutely necessary to see or explain every minute detail of his training with Yoda between the two films? To me, no. But to each their own I suppose.

Quick correction here: Luke never went back to Dagobah between Empire and Jedi. His return to Yoda was the fulfillment of the promise he made in Empire that he would someday return to complete his training. Luke says as much himself when he leaves Tatooine in Jedi. All of his training between the films was done on his own.

On topic, like I said earlier, I like the Saiyan Arc filler. Like Gaffer Tape said above, the manga moves way too fast here, for my taste..

[Kid Buu]

In agreement that the Saiyan arc benefited from the filler.

Although I could have done without the whole "Gohan turns Oozaru because spaceship" filler.

[Blade]

It increasingly annoys me how people use the term: filler. There's this herd-mentality especially found in Western fans whereby anything that isn't directly translated from a manga panel onto the screen is therefore filler, regardless of context or content, and can only be negative by association.

Filler denotes content that doesn't appear in the manga that is used in the animated adaptation to either elongate the pace of the narrative or separate story arcs. This could be anything from a flashback, a shot of a leaf being blown during a tense stand-off or a full blown story. Filler material in the TV anime is always written to appear consistent with events of the main story line, as to provide continuity whilst trying not to detract from it.

On the other hand, the movies are not filler, GT is not filler and the TV specials are not filler - they're original stories using the same characters, placed outside of (but occasionally drawing influence from) the continuity of the original plot, that, quite frankly, often care not how consistent or inconsistent they need to be with anything else. They're not filling in anything, they're just there - separate entities, harmlessly, nonchalantly existing outside of the bubble of the story told by the manga.

[ABED]

Luke wasn't going from Novice to Jedi master. That's the big difference. No, we don't need to see Gohan change, but it's a good story and it's less jarring.

What's wrong with it being a light-bulb moment? Goku snaps and viola, SSJ! To me, the actual moment of the transformation in and of itself isn't the thing that should be hyped. It's the actions the follow it, Goku humiliating Freeza, that are much more highlight worthy.

Because you build this thing up, and it's just a lightbulb? The transformation itself wasn't really the point of the scene in the anime. It builds tension around Goku's change, not just in appearance, but temperament. You can highlight both the transformation and the actions that follow. Super Saiyan is a watershed moment that deserves to be highlighted.

13 is about how much a season of a western cartoon lasts. I don't see the problem.

Even the Saiyan arc in Kai is 17 episodes. 13 may be the new trend, but 1, you aren't dealing with original material, and 2, with 13 episodes, you'd just be getting going. 20-25 episodes is enough to give everything breathing room, but also keep the stories tight. 13 episodes for western cartoons has to be a new trend, seasons used to be longer.