The Newest Batch of Toriyama Tidbits...

[RandomGuy96]

I feel one of Toriyama's comments from this interview should be brought up

The problem is, even assuming he managed to forget ALL of this (which is very unlikely in the case of the Kaioshin, he should at least know there were more than three), it wouldn't make a difference. If he did know, he'd probably just say the same thing. Check out him saying "I know the manga said this, but what REALLY happened was...".

Furthermore, if he doesn't know crap about his own work, why is he answering Q and As? Small bits like Gero's back story, 17's career, and where Vegeta learned about bargain sales are one thing, but contradicting major in-universe information is another matter altogether.

I dunno. Some fans seem to eat up all this "world-building" stuff (although I find these to be more world-shattering), but it just seems to me to be talking for the sake of talking. Like he or Shueisha really want an audience to promote this full-color manga, but they've run out of legitimate stuff to say (which, after 30 years, is really no crime), so it's just, like, "Screw it. We'll make shit up. If it's wrong, we'll just hide behind, 'Oh, well, this is what the true story was.'"

I have a hard time believing that there's nothing more interesting he could talk about. Like how Cold's business started, or how and why the Kaioshin affect Buu the way they do.

Both combined: Beerus was annoyed by Kaioshin's ability because he could create fighters stronger than him, so he sealed him in a sword after he annoyed him even more with a trifling thing.

Doesn't work. Toriyama specifically mentions the reason as their minor argument, while Old Kai says the monster feared his abilities. Neither mention anything else. You can't just stack them on top of each other.

I do like AT is giving us info that fans been wondering about for years. He said that Freeza is a mutant, that him and Cold are the only members of their family.

He never said that.

Ah. Just wanted to say I've been loving reading what you're saying today, but this particular paragraph absolutely perfectly encapsulates it. Change for the sake of change.

I know this is essentially a pointless post but I wanted to mention I agree with everything RandomGuy96 has said so far.

Just got to agree with everything said by RandomGuy96 and GafferTape here.

Appreciated

Oh, and that mastering the SS form tidbit was just a new level of stupid. Aside from it obviously being an excuse to justify using the easiest to draw/animate form more, it makes no sense. Goku already mastered Super Saiyan in the Cell arc. SS2 and SS3 were the "correct" ascensions of that form. What is Toriyama saying? That Goku was a dumbass, and during the seven years training his best course of action would've just been to master Super Saiyan again? And don't bring up god power here, Toriyama doesn't even mention it, and treats this statement more like "mastering SS more was always the best way to go, Goku just now realized it".

Not that his attempt to cram in that crappy movie hasn't screwed up the continuity enough. Like when he said Goku kept his god powers, essentially meaning the ending of the series he wrote makes no damn sense.

[B]

Like when he said Goku kept his god powers, essentially meaning the ending of the series he wrote makes no damn sense.

Okay, I'll take the bait. What?

[Kid Buu]

I have a hard time believing that there's nothing more interesting he could talk about. Like how Cold's business started, or how and why the Kaioshin affect Buu the way they do..

Or why did Yamcha become a bandit? What is his life, really? Why is Puar so faithful to him? What about Tenshinhan? Why is he an assassin in training? Why did Master Shen hate Master Roshi? What is Chaozu? What about Vegeta? Why is his race evil in the first place?

Then he goes ahead and gives Goku more backstory, one of the few characters that already had good enough of an explanation.

[Chuquita]

I would be interested to read Torishima's take on Toriyama's new info; he always seemed a good editor for him from what I've read.

[RandomGuy96]

Like when he said Goku kept his god powers, essentially meaning the ending of the series he wrote makes no damn sense.

Okay, I'll take the bait. What?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/

I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God

This contradicts Goku being excited about having a good fight with Uub, and saying Uub may beat him.

[Gaffer Tape]

I just want to say that I've had a really rough day today. The area where I live experienced major flooding today. It rained so hard the river overflowed. It was raining so hard that when I left for work, I couldn't see the four feet of water I drove my car into until it was too late. I didn't even make it out of my apartment complex. In a panic, I stupidly opened the door, allowing at least a foot of water into my car. I ended up crawling out of the window and wading home up to my knees in my work clothes. After I got stuck, a freaking U-Haul got stuck in the same place, and when a Jeep came to rescue her, HE got stuck too. When the tow truck I called finally arrived, we all helped each other get out, but when I was helping push the U-Haul out, I ended up stepping in a ditch I couldn't see because of the water and becoming almost completely submerged in water, drenching my phone, which is currently in a bowl of rice and will hopefully be functioning properly in the morning. I spent most of the early afternoon making insurance calls on Skype. It was a hell of a day.

But because of that, it meant that I effectively had the day off from work, which meant I was here to read all this new information that I have made no bones about disliking. But the reason I say all of the above (besides a desperate need to vent) is to, in a sense, apologize. While I have serious reservations about these new ideas and think they are not well thought out or particularly good, I feel I've gotten a bit vitriolic towards Toriyama. Chances are he'll never know anything I've written, but I'm sure he had no malicious intent in saying these things. He's obviously having fun talking about Dragon Ball. And while I personally wish he'd stop, I imagine I'd be pretty hurt if I was in his shoes, and the fans responded with such venom. So, Toriyama-sensei, I apologize.

I still hate most of this stuff, though.

[Saiga]

I didn't think for a second you were going too far with what you said, as said I already agreed with it all. Maybe I'm just a bad person.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah, ditto.

[dbboxkaifan]

Knowing this it's possible that Toei Animation may use No. 17 and No. 18's real names instead for future Dragon Ball media but that'll still take some getting used to, though.

[Kid Buu]

Yeah don't be so hard on yourself Gaffer Tape.

On a flip note, I've noticed you have around double my post count despite being here half as long as I have.

[RandomGuy96]

[looks at own post count and join date]

Oh, I'm just awful.

[Mewzard]

DragonBall Z has ended since 1996. What's the point of all this? Why should I learn all these tidbits in 2014 (almost 20 years later)?
If you still have ideas, just create a new DBZ Manga instead.

What's the point of complaining about this if you honestly think it's not important? If Toriyama wants to spend a few days pondering the origins of his own concepts more deeply (and you do view them as unimportant), then why is it an issue?

Chances are he'll never know anything I've written, but I'm sure he had no malicious intent in saying these things. He's obviously having fun talking about Dragon Ball. And while I personally wish he'd stop, I imagine I'd be pretty hurt if I was in his shoes, and the fans responded with such venom. So, Toriyama-sensei, I apologize.

I still hate most of this stuff, though.

I wish the opposite, honestly. This is the most Toriyama's seemed to care about the Franchise since it ended...Hell, I'd argue he cares more now than he did in the tail end of his run.

This is a man unfettered by editors, fans, or works. He's purely able to express love for a series that was almost driven out of him from a mix of exhaustion from a decade long work schedule and forced to cave to fan demands/editorial mandates.

I think he keeps bringing up stuff because he feels inspired and feels no pressure to pump out endless pages of art or follow what people expect. This is more for Toriyama than us I expect (though I doubt he minds sharing).

Besides, little bits of possible continuity errors aside (which, let's be honest, Toriyama has had retcons before), I've actually liked a lot of his additions and tidbits of information. Especially the humanification of Dr. Gero. That bit about #16 being modeled after his son makes the last events of his life make a little more sense in terms of his reaction, and gives him more depth than just "asshole scientist wants revenge". It's a good thing to add depth to characters that might seem otherwise shallow.

But yeah, just had to share my side. I know my view might be in the minority, but I've loved Toriyama's modern ideas and recent DB/Z works he was involved with.

[Kamiccolo9]

[looks at own post count and join date]

Oh, I'm just awful.

I hit 5,000 today. Oops.

So, I'm of a similar opinion to Random, Saiga, and Gaffer. Most of this information is just unnecessary, and doesn't actually help anything.

[Ajay]

Haha, I have no idea how you guys rack up that many posts! Do you just get involved in tonnes of lengthy debates or what?

I know I had a period of doing that that certainly contributed to my count but nowadays I find myself only chiming in on production, home release, and Kai based things. I'd probably end up getting banned if I got involved in any in-universe conversations which does seem to be where a lot of the conversation happens. Voicing my thoughts openly over some of the strange topics I see in that subforum would definitely break the rules!

Not a slight against you guys, I'm just curious.

[Saiga]

I would definitely say debates are a large part of my post count, I remember getting carried away in some of them. Otherwise, I don't really know. Sometimes I look at my post count and just think how it's huge, especially given that the post counts on other forums I frequent isn't so large. Well, it'd probably be even more on TV tropes if they had a post count.

[TheGmGoken]

[looks at own post count and join date]

Oh, I'm just awful.

I hit 5,000 today. Oops.

So, I'm of a similar opinion to Random, Saiga, and Gaffer. Most of this information is just unnecessary, and doesn't actually help anything.

Pssh. I'm the king of it. Anyways i agree with Random. Dumb plug in to BoG recently. This interview was better than some of the recent ones. However Beerus sealing old Kai bothers me. Seem like a cheap plug in to me. Honestly like the backstory for Mark if you remove Tao. Kinda weird and doesn't make the Earth fun. What's I have an issue with is Boo creation. Now it seems there can be more Boos. He was in the universe since the start. There logical could be more. Also I never thought of Boo as space Cell.

Don't stress it Gaffer. My house flooded and I'm with grandma for 40 days

[Fionordequester]

Why're we so hard on Old Kai and Beerus? I mean, Old Kai seems like someone who would be egotistical and narcissistic enough to make some kind of cover story rather than telling the truth and saying that he got sealed away for being an annoying fool.

[TheGmGoken]

Why're we so hard on Old Kai and Beerus? I mean, Old Kai seems like someone who would be egotistical and narcissistic enough to make some kind of cover story rather than telling the truth and saying that he got sealed away for being an annoying fool.

Beerus feared someone Kai? Beerus seems like a guy who wants a good fight. Why would he fear power ups. Beerus should seal him for not unlocking Beerus power.

Btw Old Kau didn't say The guy was weaker than Boo he said the guy was less bad.

"Long, long ago, there was this ridiculously strong and bad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still."

[Fionordequester]

Beerus feared someone Kai? Beerus seems like a guy who wants a good fight. Why would he fear power ups. Beerus should seal him for not unlocking Beerus power.

Exactly. Hence, Old Kai was lying for the sake of his own ego. He would've been embarrassed if he had to tell Goku and Co. how he got stuck the way he did.

[TheGmGoken]

Beerus feared someone Kai? Beerus seems like a guy who wants a good fight. Why would he fear power ups. Beerus should seal him for not unlocking Beerus power.

Exactly. Hence, Old Kai was lying for the sake of his own ego. He would've been embarrassed if he had to tell Goku and Co. how he got stuck the way he did.

Here's the original line

"Long, long ago, there was this ridiculously strong and bad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still."

Doesn't seem like a lie. Basically he was sealed by someone who wasn't as bad as Boo.