Vegeta the most evil?

[hleV]

In-universe, Vegeta is a good guy by the end of the manga. This is confirmed at the end of the Buu Arc when Porunga revives everyone who died that day, "except the bad guys." Vegeta was brought back, ergo, he's not evil. I believe Goku even says something to that effect.

Pretty sure it's evident that Porunga has a different understanding of a "bad guy" than, say, Enma Daio, who sends people to Heaven or Hell. Vegeta doesn't hold much of a threat to anyone, helped to save the world, etc.: so he's not a bad guy according to Porunga. He's not good, neither. At all.
In fact, even Goku was surprised that Vegeta got revived. So it'd appear that it comes down to the fact that Vegeta did good things, but not necessarily because it was his intention.

[Zephyr]

Pretty sure it's evident that Porunga has a different understanding of a "bad guy" than, say, Enma Daio, who sends people to Heaven or Hell.

We didn't see Prounga's views on Vegeta when he sacrificed himself, and we didn't see Enma's views when he was revived, so we can't pretend to know if they share the same viewpoint based on two different situations and moments in Vegeta's life.

[hleV]

Pretty sure the Kami side of Piccolo knew what its talking about when Piccolo told Vegeta that he'd go to hell because he was a mass murderer in the past. So Enma Daio treating one as "good" because he wasn't very evil in the past while Porunga treating one as "good" because he doesn't have evil intentions is suggested.

[Zephyr]

Pretty sure that was before he risked his existence against Buu after already dying against him, swallowing his pride and fusing with Goku, and subsequently setting his own pride to rest and admitting Goku was the best.

[ABED]

But one could argue that being created from evil or to do evil purposes makes those characters void of being the most evil since they don't really have a choice. Vegeta chooses to murder everyone including his friends. I would argue that because of his freedom of choice, he is the most evil. Freeza being up there too.

Cell and Buu, even Daimao, were created as an evil being ingrained in their DNA or their programing which, no matter what, had to do an evil task. In a way, it is like the argument of a wild animal who kills compared to a human poacher or hunter; the argument there lies in awareness and the ability to interpret right or wrong on a moral ground where wild animals don't understand that.

Cell or Buu are like wild animals. It is shown by Goku and even Vegeta that Saiyans feel guilt, and what is right or wrong, and understand moral obligations. See Vegeta and why he wanted to be controlled by Babidi.

I wouldn't exactly put it like Cell and Buu are like wild animals, but you are right that morality requires choice and a certain type of consciousness, but that's the real world.

Vegeta has done a lot of scummy things, but he also did plenty of good things, though he won't ever be able to balance those scales in my eyes. Still, that's more than Freeza ever did. Hence, why I think Freeza is the most evil.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think Enma Daio judges others from their part actions (Vegeta was a mass-murderer in the past for years), while Porunga judges others from their present actions (Vegeta is a good guy now that fights to protect the Earth).

[Attitudefan]

I think Enma Daio judges others from their part actions (Vegeta was a mass-murderer in the past for years), while Porunga judges others from their present actions (Vegeta is a good guy now that fights to protect the Earth).

But he doesn't really fight for the Earth. He fought for himself mainly, and maybe his family in his last few minutes on Earth. But even then, I still think he was selfish to the end. I think that is why Earth didn't listen to his pleas for energy, because not only was it a strange phenomenon for the earthlings, but he didn't sound genuine at all since he didn't really care about them. That's why he gave up.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But he doesn't really fight for the Earth. He fought for himself mainly, and maybe his family in his last few minutes on Earth. But even then, I still think he was selfish to the end. I think that is why Earth didn't listen to his pleas for energy, because not only was it a strange phenomenon for the earthlings, but he didn't sound genuine at all since he didn't really care about them. That's why he gave up.

Nah, he did say that he had grown to feel Earth as his home. He cared about the planet, and he cared about his family. He even committed suicide for them, and risked to both get erased from existence, and then die again.

[ABED]

In this case, fighting for Vegeta's family is a noble goal, I don't see what's wrong with that being his primary concern. By the end he does come to care for the Earth and its people to a degree.

[MediaFanGirl93]

I'll admit that while I am not a fan of Vegeta, I don't think he's the most evil.

[TheGmGoken]

Chilled is the most evil. As I said on the first page. He's worse than his grandson Freeza and Cold. He literally kills a solider cause he stepped out before him or was it because he stood next to him?

[Kamiccolo9]

Chilled is the most evil. As I said on the first page. He's worse than his grandson Freeza and Cold. He literally kills a solider cause he stepped out before him or was it because he stood next to him?

Doesn't General Blue do basically the same thing? Killing someone for doing something harmless and stupid?

[TheGmGoken]

Chilled is the most evil. As I said on the first page. He's worse than his grandson Freeza and Cold. He literally kills a solider cause he stepped out before him or was it because he stood next to him?

Doesn't General Blue do basically the same thing? Killing someone for doing something harmless and stupid?

I used Chilled cause I'm assuming he got traits similar to Vegeta(cold and wise Vegeta from Freeza arc) and his descendents

[PhoenixEX]

If given the opportunity of unlimited power, I'm sure that Yakon would take no prisoners.
But yes, I agree. Vegeta is probably the biggest douche in the series...yet he's still like-able somehow.

[TheGmGoken]

If given the opportunity of unlimited power, I'm sure that Yakon would take no prisoners.
But yes, I agree. Vegeta is probably the biggest douche in the series...yet he's still like-able somehow.

I think its cause he got more screen time.

[hleV]

Pretty sure that was before he risked his existence against Buu after already dying against him, swallowing his pride and fusing with Goku, and subsequently setting his own pride to rest and admitting Goku was the best.

Pretty sure that changes absolutely nothing and I don't see why would anyone think it does. Vegeta fought because he had no other choice. Admitting Goku's superiority has nothing to do with anything here.

[Attitudefan]

Pretty sure that was before he risked his existence against Buu after already dying against him, swallowing his pride and fusing with Goku, and subsequently setting his own pride to rest and admitting Goku was the best.

Pretty sure that changes absolutely nothing and I don't see why would anyone think it does. Vegeta fought because he had no other choice. Admitting Goku's superiority has nothing to do with anything here.

Wasn't Yemma actually concerned about giving Vegeta his body back? Not only that, but Vegeta had quite the ego despite his circumstances. If anything, he only sacrificed himself because it was what the situation forced him to do. So it was less a moral decision and more of a practical one.

[TheGmGoken]

Pretty sure that was before he risked his existence against Buu after already dying against him, swallowing his pride and fusing with Goku, and subsequently setting his own pride to rest and admitting Goku was the best.

Pretty sure that changes absolutely nothing and I don't see why would anyone think it does. Vegeta fought because he had no other choice. Admitting Goku's superiority has nothing to do with anything here.

Wasn't Yemma actually concerned about giving Vegeta his body back? Not only that, but Vegeta had quite the ego despite his circumstances. If anything, he only sacrificed himself because it was what the situation forced him to do. So it was less a moral decision and more of a practical one.

Can't it be both though? I mean he gave a great speech and showed love for Trunks and Goten. Even Piccolo praised him while old Kami said he'll go to hell.

[ABED]

If anything, he only sacrificed himself because it was what the situation forced him to do. So it was less a moral decision and more of a practical one.

I don't see how it wasn't a moral one, or how it being a practical one precludes it from being a moral decision. Are you implying morality and practicality aren't compatible?

[Zephyr]

Pretty sure that was before he risked his existence against Buu after already dying against him, swallowing his pride and fusing with Goku, and subsequently setting his own pride to rest and admitting Goku was the best.

Pretty sure that changes absolutely nothing and I don't see why would anyone think it does. Vegeta fought because he had no other choice. Admitting Goku's superiority has nothing to do with anything here.

Well until we see Enma's word on the matter, you can't be sure it changes nothing. Considering there's a stark contrast in Vegeta's actions, attitude, and intentions, I don't understand why you can't see how it changes things.

Vegeta wasn't forced to go risk his entire existence to fight Buu. He wasn't forced to fuse with Goku for the betterment of everyone else in spite of his pride. He wasn't forced to come up with the Genki Dama plan for the Earthlings' sake. Sure, the first two he was pressured into, but not forced. He made the choice in all of the above cases.

And admitting Goku's superiority shows a very clear change in attitude. I'd say a change in attitude would be one of the things to look at when deciphering one's own (already confirmed) moral standing.

We have two different authority figures on morality give different assessments on the matter at different times. Whether Vegeta's morality changed, or the two authorities are able to have conflicting views somehow is the point of contention. The former is directly stated and is never contradicted by later actions, and the latter is never once implied or stated.