The Newest Batch of Toriyama Tidbits...

[TheGmGoken]

That's stupid... SSj2 and 3 will stick around for sure.
The best part for me was 17 and 18's names. This could led to a LOT of more fan art. Fans who don't look up info are going to be very confused when they see a picture of 18 and the label only says "Lazuli".

Those names sound too strange for me to accept.

Why? How are they any worse than "Piccolo?" Or "Mr. Satan?" Or "Kuririn?"

I suck at words pronunciation. But can someone please tell me how to say their names

[Hugo Boss]

So if Beerus really did seal the elder Kai away then wouldn't that mean Beerus is over 75 million years old?

It means we don't know what it means. Something has got to be "wrong" somewhere...

Elder Kaioshin was East Kaioshin's predecessor from 15 generations ago. Kaioshin tells us that Buu was created when Earthling were learning to walk on two legs, and he was there for the original pampage.

The Daizenshu places this rampage at 5 million years ago, but nothing in the manga says that's when it happened.

The Super Exciting Guide says Shinjin live for 75,000 years, but doesn't say if the gold fruit variety that become Kaioshin are included in that number.

This Twel-Buu interview tells us Kaioshin have a lifespan of 75,000 years, but give a different creation process for the Kaioshin and doesn't even mention normal Shinjin.

Soooooo that's either 75 Million years with one interpretation, or 1.25 Million years with the other...

This post caught my attention. Maybe Daizenshuu's statement is based on the humans' evolutionary chain. Our ancestors supposedly began to walk on two legs about 3,5/7 million years ago, but this is still highly debatable nowadays. 5 million is a good number to set a gap, I guess. Even so, I think this is too much of a gap for Buu's rampage to have happened and East Kaioshin still looking so young. I would be perfectly fine with a gap of 5,000 years instead.

Btw, I really apreciated this new stuff. I'm actually looking forward to see more about Dragon Ball's misteries, it seems Mr. Toriyama has a lot of ideas running on his mind.

[Majin Buu]

I usually find it annoying when people try to discredit, downplay, or flat out ignore what the creator of a given work says about their own work. However there are exceptions, and this is one of them. I'm in the camp of people that say we shouldn't take Toriyama's words here too seriously (as someone earlier posted, Toriyama himself acknowledges that he may be messing things up) and just ignore them if we don't like them. If all this new information made sense and didn't contradict stuff the man previously wrote/said, then I wouldn't be saying this; but these contradictory statements just keep piling up and it's abundantly clear that Toriyama doesn't care enough about consistency to even remember most of what he previously established (or refresh himself at the very least), let alone be bothered to keep it all straight with the new stuff he's making up. So do we really have to accept these new tidbits as retconed canon? Especially when there's a very real possibility that this info will get retconed in a future Toriyama interview?

[Mr.Judge]

Goku was always view as the anime counterpart of Superman long before DB- came out. Both were sent to a Planet before their home world was destroy, both their fathers try to warn the destruction of the Planet and no one listen, both were adopted as a baby on Earth and didn't know that they were aliens until they got older.

Goku being alien is only revealed after the arrival of Raditz. So Goku being Alien seems like afterthought and seems like the workings of a person who wrote by the seats of his pants.
DB part 1 was not a story about a alien boy instead a story about a unique/strong boy and vaguely implied when characters say "is he even human" but cannot be taken as 100% confirmation

The original story about origin of Superman was written by Jerome "Jerry" Siegel and illustrated by Joseph "Joe" Shuster, and it was published as a part of the character's first appearance in Action Comics #1 (June 1938)

Siegel has cited the John Carter of Mars stories by Edgar Rice Burroughs as an influence on the source of Superman's strength and leaping ability being the lesser gravity of a smaller planet. Jack Williamson once remarked that Superman's origin had strong similarities to a story he had written and published early in his career, where a Martian scientist sent his infant daughter into space to save her from their planet's destruction

Next Movie would be about how Vegeta and Yajirobe solve the Toriyama Paradox.

[Michelle91]

Elder Kaioshin was East Kaioshin's predecessor from 15 generations ago. Kaioshin tells us that Buu was created when Earthling were learning to walk on two legs, and he was there for the original pampage.

It's possible that Buu started to absorbed the evil elements of mankind when they were just mindless primates.

[RandomGuy96]

On Minus: maybe Toriyama recently watched Man of Steel. Though he probably should have paid closer attention to the fight scenes instead...

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Elder Kaioshin was East Kaioshin's predecessor from 15 generations ago. Kaioshin tells us that Buu was created when Earthling were learning to walk on two legs, and he was there for the original pampage.

It's possible that Buu started to absorbed the evil elements of mankind when they were just mindless primates.

Humans werent "evil" in that age though. Humans werent evil until they conciously started to fathom greed and self-enflation.

[auspx]

Goku was always view as the anime counterpart of Superman long before DB- came out. Both were sent to a Planet before their home world was destroy, both their fathers try to warn the destruction of the Planet and no one listen, both were adopted as a baby on Earth and didn't know that they were aliens until they got older.

Goku being alien is only revealed after the arrival of Raditz. So Goku being Alien seems like afterthought and seems like the workings of a person who wrote by the seats of his pants.
DB part 1 was not a story about a alien boy instead a story about a unique/strong boy and vaguely implied when characters say "is he even human" but cannot be taken as 100% confirmation.

<Scanslation link removed>

In DB chapter 159 he pretty much admits that he isn't human. This is the conversation between Goku and Piccolo Daimao:

Piccolo: "It.. it can't be! A human being capable of resisting Piccolo shouldn't exist."
Goku: "Heh heh! I have a tail so I guess I'm not human."

[Michelle91]

It's also possible that humans could evolute differently. Dragon Ball takes place on a fictional Earth, so things could be different since they have much high tech stuff then we do and Dinosaurs still exist on the Planet despite dieing out million years ago in our world (Not going into the Cryptozoology debate). I'm not crazy about Buu's new origin, but it proves that the mightiest gods don't know everything.

[RandomGuy96]

Hey, wait a second:

His master was killed, and Satan was heavily injured. From then on, Mr. Satan solemnly swore never to fight anyone whose true identity he didn’t know, or anyone who seemed crazy strong.

What the hell!? I didn't notice this the first time, but did Toriyama just retcon Satan's entire character? Why did he have no problem trying to take on a seven foot tall bug monster who murdered several cities and blew up an army?

[B]

Even as painfully cliche as that storyline sounds, it still doesnt make sense for Geros character.

It's not even that it doesn't make sense; it's not like Toriyama ever put a huge lens on Gero to begin with. There's enough of a blank slate in the character to fill it with whatever you wanted. The thing that I have a problem with is that Toriyama didn't see a more interesting scenario than Gero being a tortured forlorn father.

It's the exact opposite of things like "Vegeta learned what a bargain sale was from a TV" because this actually informs Gero's character. The mystery behind the guy was probably the most he had going for him and now that's gone.

But I dont get it. If he says Goku doesnt need ssj2 or ssj3 anymore that means there's new material coming?!
Whats the point of this bit if there isnt anything more coming?!

There is always more Dragon Ball coming. This entire thread is talking about new Dragon Ball, even if it's not in the form of an actual comic.

[Marco Polo]

You know, i actually like the Dr.Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son. it seems interesting, i would like to know more about Dr.Gero's son.

I'm actually surprised Toriyama didn't give us Gero's son's name along with 17 and 18.

[Kaboom]

What the hell!? I didn't notice this the first time, but did Toriyama just retcon Satan's entire character? Why did he have no problem trying to take on a seven foot tall bug monster who murdered several cities and blew up an army?

Because he was convinced that Cell doing things like blowing up cities and the army were tricks. He didn't truly realize that Cell did everything with his own innate strength.

[RandomGuy96]

From then on, Mr. Satan solemnly swore never to fight anyone whose true identity he didn’t know, or anyone who seemed crazy strong.

So someone who just blew up the army doesn't seem strong? And Mr. Satan knows Cell's true identity? Heck, even if he isn't factoring in Cell's "tricks", it' still a seven foot tall muscular bug monster with an exoskeleton.

Satan's entire character is that he takes on guys who seem crazy strong overconfidently with no regard for that... what was Toriyama thinking?

[garnetjester]

People need to cool it with the superman thing, tons of superhero origin stories are similar to each other. And I'm not really seeing how whatever Gine and Bardock ever did makes an inkling of a difference when nobody ever knew about their true intentions and Kakarotto himself barely interacted with them at all in his whole life. And to top it all off, he whacked his head, and forgot whatever memory he could've possibly had about them, so whatever they did/didn't do is pointless.

I find it amusing how Toriyama is dishing out the random info when he practically didn't want to have anything to do with the franchise for a number of years. Not everything he says is gold, but I prefer this version of Toriyama who at least cares enough to give out new information.

[FrogTrigger]

Plus Dragon Ball>Smallville

[Majin Buu]

Satan's entire character is that he takes on guys who seem crazy strong overconfidently with no regard for that... what was Toriyama thinking?

No it's not. I'm mostly on your side in this situation, but that's not Satan's character. Satan's character is that he tries desperately to back out of fights when he's faced with opponents he knows he can't defeat. Like Kaboom said, he was only overconfident when facing Cell at first because he believed all of Cell's powers were tricks. Once Cell beat him, he tried to stall his getting back into the fight in anyway he could (namely by faking stomach aches).

[Saiga]

From then on, Mr. Satan solemnly swore never to fight anyone whose true identity he didn’t know, or anyone who seemed crazy strong.

So someone who just blew up the army doesn't seem strong? And Mr. Satan knows Cell's true identity? Heck, even if he isn't factoring in Cell's "tricks", it' still a seven foot tall muscular bug monster with an exoskeleton.

Satan's entire character is that he takes on guys who seem crazy strong overconfidently with no regard for that... what was Toriyama thinking?

He probably wasn't.

[Mewzard]

If he honestly thought Cell was just using tricks, then why would he think he was truly strong, or just not some guy in a bug costume? I doubt Tao Pai Pai blew anything up with ki when he beat Mr. Satan, he probably just beat the crap out of him the old fashioned way.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, we don't know HOW Tao Pai Pai killed Mr. Satan's master, but if it was something like breaking his neck with a karate chop, or stabbing him with his hand, or the ol' tongue-through-the-skull trick... those are all astounding and borderline superhuman feats by DB standards, but still very obviously all Tao and his own power. Which is a far cry from believing that someone can magically cause things to explode by waving his hand.