Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Cold Skin » Mon May 05, 2014 4:37 am

Aah, I just loved that episode: one episode, all of the junior section is done, including the manga version of the Goten and Trunks finale!
No need to waste time on the kids playing around, but I liked the music for clearly showing it's a friendly fun match, not a serious one (I was afraid they would waste some great, serious music on it, when we need to keep them for later to have the excitement of discovering new pieces - and the best kind).

I'm impressed at how they understood they had to stick to the manga for this one. It's sort of a dream come true.
I would say they should do the same with all other fights, but hey, given the importance of the Goku/Vegeta fight, I'm sure they will show it to us instead of making it mostly implicit like the manga (and yet, doesn't one of the rules in movies and series say that what you mostly don't see but only hear about is ultimately much more intense?).

I don't know, maybe if it was like the manga, where you see them exchanging just the first super-powered blows, and then in the next Gohan scene you see the Boo meter going "bip, bip, I'm full in just 10 seconds", before cutting back to the blooded faces and bodies of the two warriors, it would feel more intense than actually seeing them fight for long minutes...

Well at least, we got the manga fight for Goten and Trunks, which is great, but they could afford it, it's mostly a meaningless fight so they could take chances with it.

And Satan falling was just hilarious. I liked it in the manga because the whole thing goes so fast and leaves everyone speechless, but I must say the slow motion effect during the slip and when the head bumps makes it really funny in this episode, while still keeping the "it all happens so fast" quickness of the manga!

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by ABED » Mon May 05, 2014 7:22 am

and yet, doesn't one of the rules in movies and series say that what you mostly don't see but only hear about is ultimately much more intense?
That's more of guideline than a hard and fast rule.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by worldmonsters » Mon May 05, 2014 7:47 am

I thought the pace was almost perfect. What I would've liked is that the episode actually started with the junior devision (and ended where it did, that was fine :p). Every time I see an episode of new-Kai it feels that they needed just one extra minute to make it better. There were some awkward cuts, which would've benefitted a lot from that extra minute or two by cutting out the rest of punching machine in the beginning, but a lot less than other episodes. There was one shot I realllllyyyyyyy missed and that was the shot where Goten and Trunks slowly ascend and start flying, that was such a great and telling shot, because those shots of the audience work amazing in the original episode, so much fun.

So yeah, Kai needs some breathing room, but I think they are close to hitting their mark. Just not close enough to actually watch it without annoying awkward cuts.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon May 05, 2014 8:40 am

JulieYBM wrote:I don't think this is a pacing issue. It's an editing issue, definitely, one I would attribute both to limited animation and talent. If this episode could tell its events without being beholden to Dragon Ball Z materials it wouldn't feel so poorly paced. I think even just removing most of the background music would do wonders for the sense of time, too.
It wasn't just the editing that was sloppy it was the pace too, because for a television series it's supposed to be enjoyable to watch and Kai's Episode 103 wasn't, everything just felt way too rush to pack in as much content as possible disregarding the quality of it completely.

I've been reading the Saiyan arc and the manga version is a lot faster than the anime, but we've gotta see them from two different perspectives, one's made for an audience that reads and the other that watches. I'm glad that the Old Kai knows the difference between the Manga / TV editions whereas the New Kai doesn't seem to.

Such a disappointing rushed episode but had they not used music it'd have been somewhat enjoyable at the very least.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Sinedd » Mon May 05, 2014 1:06 pm

Episode 103 - Everyone Is Shocked! Goten and Trunks Super Battle!!
Good episode. They finished junior division fast, so we could move to something more serious.
Trunks VS. Goten battle ended fast, Trunks is a bit more powerful than Goten, just like he said...that's why he won. :mrgreen:
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon May 05, 2014 1:47 pm

Sinedd wrote:Episode 103 - Everyone Is Shocked! Goten and Trunks Super Battle!!
Good episode. They finished junior division fast, so we could move to something more serious.
Trunks VS. Goten battle ended fast, Trunks is a bit more powerful than Goten, just like he said...that's why he won. :mrgreen:
Next episode: The mysterious warrior revealed!
Trunks won because he also cheated and used a ki blast against Son Goten which led him to a ringout.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Sinedd » Mon May 05, 2014 2:06 pm

I'm not sure if that is cheated, you can use any technique no?
Goten was the first to break the rule by turning Super Saiyan.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon May 05, 2014 3:29 pm

Goten:
- Turned Super Saiyan for a moment
- Used a ki blast to ditch from crashing to the ground

Trunks:
- Turned Super Saiyan
- Used his left arm (he said he wouldn't)
- Aimed a ki blast towards Goten (the reason Goten's got knocked out of the ring)

Well, so the one who cheated most was by far Trunks of course in the Kai version everything goes so fast that it's not possible to see it clearly any more whereas in Z you could.

Majin Boo arc so far feels very rushed to compress as much content as they possibly can but it's odd because if it's going like this then there might not be 69 episodes.

By the way, the Son family would have made better use of the money for the grand champion because they're not rich like the Briefs' family.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Gonstead » Mon May 05, 2014 10:08 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote: By the way, the Son family would have made better use of the money for the grand champion because they're not rich like the Briefs' family.
They probably gave them the money anyway.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by IAmTheMilkMan » Tue May 06, 2014 12:47 am

I agree, everything has felt far too rushed with this new iteration of Kai. However, and this may sound ridiculous, but I'm wondering if having to keep up with the subtitles the whole time I'm watching is having an effect on how rushed is feels to me. I felt the same way about the first two episodes of Kai back in '09 and, when I re-watched those in English, it didn't bother me as much. So we'll see how it holds up in English before I pass final judgement.

What gets me is that, like others have said, each episode needs just a little more breathing room and would greatly benefit from one extra minute per episode which could easily be done if they didn't have to accommodate for the overly long opening and ending credit sequences. I've always thought Dragon Ball openings were too long, but I could understand the need for them back in the days of trying to stay behind the manga by filling time; here, it seems frustratingly unnecessary.

I'm also not impressed with the music, but it doesn't bother me as much as the pacing.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Rukura » Tue May 06, 2014 8:49 am

IAmTheMilkMan wrote:I agree, everything has felt far too rushed with this new iteration of Kai. However, and this may sound ridiculous, but I'm wondering if having to keep up with the subtitles the whole time I'm watching is having an effect on how rushed is feels to me. I felt the same way about the first two episodes of Kai back in '09 and, when I re-watched those in English, it didn't bother me as much. So we'll see how it holds up in English before I pass final judgement.

What gets me is that, like others have said, each episode needs just a little more breathing room and would greatly benefit from one extra minute per episode which could easily be done if they didn't have to accommodate for the overly long opening and ending credit sequences. I've always thought Dragon Ball openings were too long, but I could understand the need for them back in the days of trying to stay behind the manga by filling time; here, it seems frustratingly unnecessary.

I'm also not impressed with the music, but it doesn't bother me as much as the pacing.
For what it's worth, I am watching it without subtitles and it does feel too rushed.

As far as music, it's been either bad, completely flat and forgettable or (in very few cases) not bad but poorly placed. I'd say it bothers me just as much.
EDIT: I remember a few posts on how the music got better during the Goten vs Trunks fight, but I can't even remember what played during it. I guess that says something as to how much of an impression it left on at least me :|
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by planche » Tue May 06, 2014 3:35 pm

Not sure if it was brought up before, but have did Toei ever confirm if they were going to continue with the re-animating/fixing of animation errors like they did in the earlier episodes of Kai? I know this has been a generally lower-budgeted affair, but it would be a shame in their claim to keep it as accurate to the manga as possible that they end up cutting corners there as well.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue May 06, 2014 4:22 pm

Rukura wrote:EDIT: I remember a few posts on how the music got better during the Goten vs Trunks fight, but I can't even remember what played during it. I guess that says something as to how much of an impression it left on at least me :|
I too can't remember but this episode had two memorable tracks that played after the Goten X Trunks match was over, although as for the rest they're pretty forgettable I ain't even able to hum them.

This Kai season probably won't even have OST CDs (1-2 vols) because of how cheap and rushed everything's being done.

Edit: I've used Audacity for the "Mario Sunshine" BGM and the NEP here - https://mega.co.nz/#!DE4mnRza!B2SX5RW_M ... PChnC4nKCI (they have pretty terrible audio quality though but no vocals).
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Black_Liger » Wed May 07, 2014 2:53 am

dbboxkaifan wrote:
Rukura wrote:EDIT: I remember a few posts on how the music got better during the Goten vs Trunks fight, but I can't even remember what played during it. I guess that says something as to how much of an impression it left on at least me :|
I too can't remember but this episode had two memorable tracks that played after the Goten X Trunks match was over, although as for the rest they're pretty forgettable I ain't even able to hum them.

This Kai season probably won't even have OST CDs (1-2 vols) because of how cheap and rushed everything's being done.

Edit: I've used Audacity for the "Mario Sunshine" BGM and the NEP here - https://mega.co.nz/#!DE4mnRza!B2SX5RW_M ... PChnC4nKCI (they have pretty terrible audio quality though but no vocals).

Cool rips! could you please rip the heroic track used when Goku tells gohan he is coming back for the tenkaichi budokai?
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by RocktheDragon » Wed May 07, 2014 10:17 am

The wife and I both enjoyed this episode quite a lot! The pace and editing is more than fine for me, and even if I thought things were rushed (which they aren't, for me at least) it would still be loads better than the original Z anime, knowing how long that takes.

I can say that I'm genuinely impressed by this reintroduction of Kai. I was expecting it to be a very poor effort on Toei's behalf, and though many on the forum may feel that way (and though it is) it doesn't get in my way of enjoying the show.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by LordCrumb » Wed May 07, 2014 3:07 pm

This episode wasn't so bad.. the music during the Goten / Trunks fight was actually 'ok'.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by dbboxkaifan » Wed May 07, 2014 6:30 pm

Black_Liger wrote:Cool rips! could you please rip the heroic track used when Goku tells gohan he is coming back for the tenkaichi budokai?
Thanks for brining this one up, it's another one that's actually pretty good opposed to the majority of the soundtrack that we've heard so far.

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LordCrumb wrote:This episode wasn't so bad.. the music during the Goten / Trunks fight was actually 'ok'.
IIRC that BGM is the one they tend to use way too often for the episodes, I really wouldn't mind if only it was a catchy BGM and memorable.
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by GarrettCRW » Wed May 07, 2014 9:28 pm

This episode's pacing makes it seems like it was done by Tweak from South Park. While this helps to cover up just how awful the music is, it's not anywhere near as entertaining as the previous run of Kai was.

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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by Black_Liger » Thu May 08, 2014 1:46 am

dbboxkaifan wrote:
Black_Liger wrote:Cool rips! could you please rip the heroic track used when Goku tells gohan he is coming back for the tenkaichi budokai?
Thanks for brining this one up, it's another one that's actually pretty good opposed to the majority of the soundtrack that we've heard so far.

Download: https://mega.co.nz/#!OFwHgBqD!cj-SrRt7U ... YLCJ2ZVVBc
WOW!! Superb rip man!! thank you so very much!
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Re: Kai Episode 103 (04 May 2014)

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Thu May 08, 2014 8:17 pm

After getting through the reunion scene, I found this episode to be quite enjoyable. I absolutely love how the Budokai announcer is completely in on Goku and co's abilities and history and how he knows they defeated Cell instead of Mr. Satan.

Other than that, the voice acting was great, the pace was good, getting the entire Jr. Division as well as Goten and Trunk's fight in one episode. Some scenes looked like they was cut rather hastily but all in all I found it to be a good episode after getting through the initial score placement.
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