Which Saiyans are Middle Class?

[Bullza]

Supposedly there are 10 of them, who do you think would count as them?

Would Nappa be a middle class Saiyan?

[Super Vegetto]

Supposedly there are 10 of them, who do you think would count as them?

Would Nappa be a middle class Saiyan?

10 of them ? Isn't there only low and elite class ?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

My guess is that Nappa was a mid-class back when Planet Vegeta was destroyed, and at some point, Vegeta promoted him to an elite.

[Kaboom]

When Toriyama talked about "low-class, mid-class, and elites" in that recent interview, he seemed to be re-naming the rankings we previously had of "low-class, elites, and super-elites."

So of the three non-Goku Saiyans at the start of Z, Raditz would be a low-class, Nappa would be a mid-class/elite, and Vegeta would be a (super) elite.

[Bullza]

Supposedly there are 10 of them, who do you think would count as them?

Would Nappa be a middle class Saiyan?

10 of them ? Isn't there only low and elite class ?

Toriyama - "I haven’t thought it through that far, but Bardock is a low-class warrior. Although even saying that, almost all [Saiyans] were low-class warriors, and there were only about 10 mid-class warriors. And when you get to the elite warriors, there’s only King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta. Bardock is in the upper ranks as far as low-class warriors go, but he isn’t able to become a mid-class warrior."

Toriyama also said this "Vegeta is the prince and so he has a higher position due to strength. But Raditz and Nappa have equal status." Does that mean both were low class? Surely Raditz wouldn't be middle class.

[Super Vegetto]

I realy don't think Toriyama knows what he's talking about...Where did he pull out 10 mid class saiyans ? From his ass ?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

When Toriyama talked about "low-class, mid-class, and elites" in that recent interview, he seemed to be re-naming the rankings we previously had of "low-class, elites, and super-elites."

"Super-elite" could have been an exaggeration from Vegeta, like the "super" Saiyan Gohan in the beginning of the manga, and not an actual rank.

[Low Tone G]

I realy don't think Toriyama knows what he's talking about...Where did he pull out 10 mid class saiyans ? From his ass ?

Yeah, absolutely. He thought that if elite warriors were only two, then mid-classes would have been very few as well. And also what's the matter, he said "there were" not "there are". But for me it's very weird to assume Bardock is only a low-class. Does that mean Bardock didn't receive SSJ transformartion in the E.O.B.?(I had a conversation with TheDevilsCorpse, the issue it's still unclear). Or that means simply a super saiyan also stays in a class were he did belong prior SSJ transformation, counting only his base form? If Bardock is 2000-3000 then if he ascends to SSJ he becomes 100.000 he is still a low-class?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But for me it's very weird to assume Bardock is only a low-class. Does that mean Bardock didn't receive SSJ transformartion in the E.O.B.?(I had a conversation with TheDevilsCorpse, the issue it's still unclear). Or that means simply a super saiyan also stays in a class were he did belong prior SSJ transformation, counting only his base form? If Bardock is 2000-3000 then if he ascends to SSJ he becomes 100.000 he is still a low-class?

Bardock was injured when Ipana found him, so he most likely got a big near-death power-up in EoB.

[Low Tone G]

But for me it's very weird to assume Bardock is only a low-class. Does that mean Bardock didn't receive SSJ transformartion in the E.O.B.?(I had a conversation with TheDevilsCorpse, the issue it's still unclear). Or that means simply a super saiyan also stays in a class were he did belong prior SSJ transformation, counting only his base form? If Bardock is 2000-3000 then if he ascends to SSJ he becomes 100.000 he is still a low-class?

Bardock was injured when Ipana found him, so he most likely got a big near-death power-up in EoB.

Yeah, that's right... But Toriyama said Bardock isn't able to become mid-class, when his power as a Super Saiyan far exceeds Prince Vegeta's, who was that strongest Saiyan before Freeza saga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama was talking about Bardock during the time that Planet Vegeta was destroyed (even though he was asked about his power in EoB).

[Low Tone G]

Toriyama was talking about Bardock during the time that Planet Vegeta was destroyed (even though he was asked about his power in EoB).

Are you sure? The interview's title was somewhat about Episode of Bardock, isn't it?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama was talking about Bardock during the time that Planet Vegeta was destroyed (even though he was asked about his power in EoB).

Are you sure? The interview's title was somewhat about Episode of Bardock, isn't it?

He was talking about the Saiyan classes during that era, while EoB takes place in the past.

[Bullza]

But for Does that mean Bardock didn't receive SSJ transformartion in the E.O.B.?(I had a conversation with TheDevilsCorpse, the issue it's still unclear). Or that means simply a super saiyan also stays in a class were he did belong prior SSJ transformation, counting only his base form? If Bardock is 2000-3000 then if he ascends to SSJ he becomes 100.000 he is still a low-class?

It means that that never really happened and it's just some non canon fluff. Kinda like how he said Fieza and King Cold were the only two of their race with any worthwhile power meaning Cooler and Chilled are also non canon fluff.

[Low Tone G]

But for Does that mean Bardock didn't receive SSJ transformartion in the E.O.B.?(I had a conversation with TheDevilsCorpse, the issue it's still unclear). Or that means simply a super saiyan also stays in a class were he did belong prior SSJ transformation, counting only his base form? If Bardock is 2000-3000 then if he ascends to SSJ he becomes 100.000 he is still a low-class?

It means that that never really happened and it's just some non canon fluff. Kinda like how he said Fieza and King Cold were the only two of their race with any worthwhile power meaning Cooler and Chilled are also non canon fluff.

I've heard somewhere that Toriyama does treat Chilled to be Freeza's ancestor. If he didn't mention that Chilled also had abnormally high battle power it could mean that Chilled was that powerful like we thought he was.

[Bullza]

I haven't seen that said anywhere but that wouldn't make sense with what he said recently. King Cold is supposed to be a mutant and was why he had power, he gave birth to Frieza and that power was passed on to him, that's why they're the only two with any power. No mention of Cooler or some ancestor, there shouldn't really be anyone else.

Besides which Toriyama also said they were the only two with abnormal cruelty which Chilled was.

Which isn't surprising because EOB isn't canon.

[RancorSnp]

Unless that was anime / dub only Nappa says he used to be Commander in chief of an entire sayan Army and as their powers are measured on birth, Nappa must have been an Elite.

[Low Tone G]

I haven't seen that said anywhere but that wouldn't make sense with what he said recently. King Cold is supposed to be a mutant and was why he had power, he gave birth to Freeza and that power was passed on to him, that's why they're the only two with any power. No mention of Cooler or some ancestor, there shouldn't really be anyone else.

Which isn't surprising because EOB isn't canon.

If these can prove anything:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/02/06/ch ... -and-more/

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/databook/chozenshu/vol-01/

[Bullza]

I really don't know much that matters but Toriyama designing Chilled doesn't really mean anything as he also designed Broly I think.

The special followed on from the old Bardock special which is itself not canon going by DB Minus. In EOB Bardock was reminiscing over his crew from the old special who went with him to that planet where Bardock obtained the ability to see into the future and where they were all killed by Dodoria. Of which that never happened in DB Minus.

It also just doesn't fit with Toriyama's comments on Bardock or on Frieza's race or what I said after editing it in that Kng Cold and Frieza were the only two were really cruel which Chilled also was.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Besides which Toriyama also said they were the only two with abnormal cruelty which Chilled was.

No, Toriyama said that the only ones with insane power and abnormal cruelty were Cold & Freeza. Chilled bled from base Bardock's punch, meaning that he was a weakling. Probably weaker than even First Form Freeza.

Which isn't surprising because EOB isn't canon.

There is no canon. But for what is worth, EoB was covered in the manga-only guidebook Chozenshuu #1, and its latest volume release was modeled like an extra volume of the manga. Plus, it barely has any references to the TV Special, meaning that it can fit in Toriyama's continuity.