Trunks, A Mary Sue?

[ABED]

Just as the title says, do you think that's true? I don't, for the reason that Mary Sue's are usually some writer surrogate, and overly idealized. Trunks isn't, he usually messes up, and a tragic past doesn't automatically make a character a Mary Sue. It's yet another term that gets abused. Damn you TVtrope.com!

[Kamiccolo9]

He has some traits that may make him seem like one, at first. And then the arc gets underway, and these traits get less and less apparent, up to the point where he's regularly proven to be wrong about pretty much everything.

[FrogTrigger]

Naw

I mean if it's cause of his tragic past and dystopian future then do we include Rachel grey? Cable? Every other hero from a dystopic future?

[Kid Buu]

It's mostly his debut - this quote sums it up.

When Trunks shows up is probably the dumbest moment of the show, it's too serious, he's a Super Saiyan, he has a sword and he's the son of Vegeta and Bulma, it's like some kind of fan character. The first time I found out about him was when a Turkish kid moved into my street and said it all happened, I thought he was lying because we weren't that far yet in the UK. Even the name "Trunks" sounded made up!

He even kills Freeza, the strongest established bad guy!

[KentalSSJ6]

Ohhh...hehe...we had a thread of this a few months back. Some of the replies on that thing...to quote Rocketman.

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Its not like he was like "Hey guys I got this" and one shots everyone.


Uh...that's exactly what he does to Freeza and Kold.

Trunks in his first appearance embodies almost all the signifiers of Sue-dom.

1. Unique hair/eyes. ("All Saiyans have black hair")
2. Uses a sword in a setting where nobody does.
3. More powerful than all the established characters.
4. Uses a previously unique powerup/skill/etc effortlessly.
5. Kills the Big Bad effortlessly.
6. Related to established character
6b. Related to royalty.
6c. Child of two characters with no interaction.



NO

STOP

I can already hear your itchy fingers reaching for that quote button to do a point-by-point refutation! Don't do it! It is not the individual parts, but that they all exist in tandem!

Also the fact that Trunks comes back and is nowhere near the central character. The Gary Stu stuff really only applies to his intro.

[ABED]

I'm not going to go through all of them one by one, but he doesn't kill the big bad in one shot, Freeza wasn't the big bad.

Since when was it a bad thing to have a unique character design? And we literally find out that all Saiyans have black hair when Vegeta brings it up in relation to Trunks.

What does being related to two characters with no interaction a form of Mary Sue-dom?

The Gary Stu stuff really only applies to his intro.

Well, many great writers use tropes then subvert them.

[GarrettCRW]

What does being related to two characters with no interaction a form of Mary Sue-dom?

It's something that pops up in the bad fan fiction of shippers, in order to "prove" that said couple is the One True Pairing.

[Blade]

When first introduced, Bulma is closer to a Mary Sue than Trunks ever is. 16 year old super genius, super attractive girl, who comes from the richest family in the world? Yeah - totally not idealised.

Despite his colourful back-story and great power, Trunks is a pretty bland character really. He's not even so much plot-convenient to the Android arc as he is essential to it - the plot spawns from his timeline incursions.

[rereboy]

He's pretty much a mary sue when he shows up, but after his first appearance, he's outclassed by the other warriors and proven various times to be kind of useless and inferior to the others.

[ABED]

What does being related to two characters with no interaction a form of Mary Sue-dom?

It's something that pops up in the bad fan fiction of shippers, in order to "prove" that said couple is the One True Pairing.

Except Vegeta and Bulma weren't portrayed as anything close to a OTP. While it did come out of nowhere, I do think they make sense in an odd way. Neither would put up with the other's crap.

[thatdbzguy]

Except Vegeta and Bulma weren't portrayed as anything close to a OTP. While it did come out of nowhere, I do think they make sense in an odd way. Neither would put up with the other's crap.

That doesn't matter. Every relationship should have build-up. VegetaxBulma did not, hence why it's abysmal writing on Toriyama's part.

[ABED]

Except Vegeta and Bulma weren't portrayed as anything close to a OTP. While it did come out of nowhere, I do think they make sense in an odd way. Neither would put up with the other's crap.

That doesn't matter. Every relationship should have build-up. VegetaxBulma did not, hence why it's abysmal writing on Toriyama's part.

No it doesn't need to have build up. Storytelling doesn't necessitate that, and there's a 3 year gap we don't see. I'll grant you that we don't get filled in on how it happened, but we don't need build up, and it's barely a relationship. I don't know if you know this, but men and women can conceive children without being in love or even in a relationship.

You are overblowing it by calling it "abysmal". You constantly do that. You find one thing that's even remotely negative, and you make it like it's so damn horrible.

[Marco Polo]

Trunks is not a Mary Sue at all. When he shows up for the first time, he is stronger than most of the cast and more knowledgeable than everyone, but there's a perfect reason for that: he is from the future. He was ahead of everyone because he was literally ahead of them temporally speaking. But the moment history changes, he immediately loses his "head start" and becomes like any of the other characters.

[Blade]

Except Vegeta and Bulma weren't portrayed as anything close to a OTP. While it did come out of nowhere, I do think they make sense in an odd way. Neither would put up with the other's crap.

That doesn't matter. Every relationship should have build-up. VegetaxBulma did not, hence why it's abysmal writing on Toriyama's part.

And I guess Toriyama should have documented every sex act that yielded a child, too? And every time a character needed to use the toilet? And provide a full back story to explain every clothing or cosmetic change? I guess his failings on those accounts make his writing abysmal, too?

My point is, Vegeta and Bulma's relationship was never a primary focus of the story - so why should we have to be given a detailed insight on how it came about? The fact that we weren't, and the reveal of the liaison came as such a shock, provided much more dramatic pay off, whilst still being plot-relevant, than if we had been indulged in a side plot that depicted their blossoming relationship beforehand.

Actually, if anything - we were sort of given hints. What about all that playful flirting Bulma was throwing Vegeta's way? At the time it isn't worth batting an eye-lid at, knowing Bulma's character - but it all carries weight as formative moments in their relationship once the reveal is made by Trunks.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

While he may seem like a Mary Sue when he first shows up, remember that he gets completely outclassed by Goku right away. If Trunks had really been this 'perfect' fanfic character, he would have been leagues ahead of Goku somehow and all the other characters would worship him.

So no, I wouldn't call him a Mary Sue; he's just there to show just how much of a threat the Androids are compared to Freeza, whom until that point had been the most insanely powerful being we knew.

[thatdbzguy]

No it doesn't need to have build up. Storytelling doesn't necessitate that, and there's a 3 year gap we don't see. I'll grant you that we don't get filled in on how it happened, but we don't need build up, and it's barely a relationship. I don't know if you know this, but men and women can conceive children without being in love or even in a relationship.

You are overblowing it by calling it "abysmal". You constantly do that. You find one thing that's even remotely negative, and you make it like it's so damn horrible.

If you want your fictional relationship to actually seem believable, you need build up. Sure, Vegeta and Bulma just had a fling at first, but it then abruptly turned into a relationship by the time the Buu saga came.

I don't sugarcoat abysmal writing.

[ABED]

No it doesn't need to have build up. Storytelling doesn't necessitate that, and there's a 3 year gap we don't see. I'll grant you that we don't get filled in on how it happened, but we don't need build up, and it's barely a relationship. I don't know if you know this, but men and women can conceive children without being in love or even in a relationship.

You are overblowing it by calling it "abysmal". You constantly do that. You find one thing that's even remotely negative, and you make it like it's so damn horrible.

If you want your fictional relationship to actually seem believable, you need build up. Sure, Vegeta and Bulma just had a fling at first, but it then abruptly turned into a relationship by the time the Buu saga came.

I don't sugarcoat abysmal writing.

You may not sugarcoat it, but you certainly blow things out of proportion. You say that Trunks meets all the criteria for a "mary stu" but a number of people have shown that not to be the case.

Where'd you read that you need build up? The relationship doesn't abruptly turn into a relationship, there's a 7 year gap between the cell games and Buu arc. At worst you can say it's all off screen, but by the end of the Cell arc, there's been a big change in Vegeta, so it's very possible he settled down enough to have what passes for a relationship. All of this is beside the point anyways, you just admitted that they had a fling the first time, that's ALL that's need for Trunks' conception.

[jjgp1112]

He's only really Mary Sue-like in his initial arrival, but after that he's a fairy grounded character and more often than not, the butt monkey.

[FortuneSSJ]

Only learnt what that means some minutes ago...No, trunks definitely is not one.
How this comparison even began?!

[Luso Saiyan]

Every relationship should have build-up.

Is that a law or something?