Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Hugo Boss · Post by **Hugo Boss** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:05 am

Kaboom, what number would you give to Prime Nappa?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:21 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:Kaboom, what number would you give to Prime Nappa?

I'unno, maybe around 6,000, compared to the 4,500 I use for him in the Saiyan arc? He's an active fighter, but I figure if he's old enough to go bald then he's old enough for his power to start deteriorating.

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:51 pm

How strong is Tarble...he was considered a weakling and unfit for fighting, but he was born fro the royal family, could he be weaker than Raditz?

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:30 am

I have him at 18,000. Some people might think it's too much but he was made a big deal when he arrived.

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:07 pm

I see what you mean, though couldn't anyone be considered a high power level as even something like 1000 would stick out. Most people are like 5. Maybe he did get stronger over time, but he seems kinda like the Gohan of the saiyans....except with no hidden power bonus or hidden strength. Also was he kicked out because of his fighting reluctant or for having a low battle power that disgraced the royal family?

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:17 pm

Zombie wrote:I have him at 18,000. Some people might think it's too much but he was made a big deal when he arrived.

That seems too high for me. Most Saiyans fought their entire life, and never got past the single thousands range. Vegeta was a freak by Saiyan standards, and you have Tarble equal to him in the Saiyan Arc. Tarble's whole point was that he was a weakling; if he got so much stronger than every other Saiyan not named Goku or Vegeta just from running away a lot, then he wouldn't have been considered such a weakling.

KentalSSJ6 · Post by **KentalSSJ6** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:40 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Zombie wrote:I have him at 18,000. Some people might think it's too much but he was made a big deal when he arrived.
That seems too high for me. Most Saiyans fought their entire life, and never got past the single thousands range. Vegeta was a freak by Saiyan standards, and you have Tarble equal to him in the Saiyan Arc. Tarble's whole point was that he was a weakling; if he got so much stronger than every other Saiyan not named Goku or Vegeta just from running away a lot, then he wouldn't have been considered such a weakling.

Id say 1500 to 2000 max.

Pantalones · Post by **Pantalones** » Sat May 03, 2014 11:01 pm

"Low class Saiyan" level seems appropriate considering that he logically should at least be below the level expected for an elite Saiyan. So Raditz-ish works.

On the other hand... wasn't he said to have tried to fight Abo and Kado before, couldn't really stand up to them but survived, and managed to escape? I guess they could've just not really tried since they didn't take him all that seriously, but still... I'd have to wonder just how much a couple of guys on Freeza's level would have to be holding back for someone that weak to fight them at all and not end up beaten half to death.

auspx · Post by **auspx** » Sun May 04, 2014 1:45 am

[Ignoring anime-only filler]

Bardock: ~3500 (according to AT he was weaker than Nappa)
SSJ Bardock: (3500 x 50 = 175,000) and (175,000 x 10 = 1,750,000) in golden oozaru form.
Bardock's teammates: ~1000 to ~1500 (low-class fighters like Raditz)
Gine: ~500 (I don't think they kicked her out of Bardock's team just for having a "gentle" personality, she was probably really weak too)
Chilled: 20,000 to 30,000 (I would put him at about the same level as Dodoria and Zarbon)
Chilled's henchmen: ~1000 each (same as Freeza's low-level goons)

baby/infant Goku: ~5 to 10
3 year old Goku: ~20 (he managed to surprise Grandpa Gohan)
Oozaru kid Goku when he killed Grandpa Gohan: ~200 to 500
Grandpa Gohan: ~at or above Roshi's level
12 year old Goku, in the beginning of DB: ~50
normal human baby / infant: 1
normal human young child: 1 to 2
normal human teenage girls and women, and Bulma: 2 to 3
normal human teenage boys, average men: 3 to 4
normal human hard working men: 5+
Olympic athlete: ~10+
12 year old Goku at the 21st Martial Arts Tournament: at Roshi's level (~100?)
Tao Pai Pai: above Roshi's and Goku's level
Goku after Karin's training / "magical" water / zenkai: above Tao Pai Pai's level
Goku at the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament: ~180
Tenshinhan at the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament: ~180
Goku (exhausted) vs Tambourine: ~90
Piano: ~5 (he doesn't look like a fighter)
Tambourine: ~150
Cymbal: ~75
Yajirobe: ~100
Goku (at full power vs Tambourine and [old] Piccolo Daimao): ~180
[old] Piccolo Daimao: ~200
[young again] Piccolo Daimao: ~250
Drum: ~200
Goku after more "magical" water / zenkai: ~255
Mr. Popo: ~300
Kamisama: ~325
Goku at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament: ~350
Piccolo Jr. at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament: ~350
ChiChi at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament: ~100?

Everyone else at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament: obviously a lot less than Goku and Piccolo

And we already know what their power levels were in DBZ so...
Nappa: ~4000 to 5000 at first, then ~7000 after he powered up
Goku (after the zenkai, after the battle with Vegeta): ~10,000 to 12,000?
Dodoria: ~20,000 he was defeated very easily by Vegeta (at 24,000)
Zarbon: 22,000 normally and 30,000 in monster form
Guldo: ~3000 he seemed pretty weak
Reacoom, Butta, Jheese: ~40,000 each
1st form Freeza: we know it was 530,000
Vegeta (vs 1st form Freeza): ~100,000 yes that's right, enough to surprise Freeza but not enough to actually hurt Freeza
2nd form Freeza: ~1,060,000
Piccolo (after fusing with Nail): ~1,200,000
3rd form Freeza: ~2,120,000
4th form Freeza: began at ~4,240,000... got a lot more powerful after that when he began to fight Goku
Vegeta (vs 4th form Freeza): less than Piccolo, probably a lot less, maybe ~300,000... being able to see Freeza's ki blasts doesn't make him anywhere near Freeza's level
King Cold: ~1,000,000 or about the same level as 2nd form Freeza
Cyborg Freeza: ~1,000,000 he lost more than half of his body, I think that in this form much of his power would come from the mechanical parts which has nothing to do with ki... too bad for him the best alien technology in the universe wasn't even on par with Dr. Gero's technology.

And finally

On the other hand... wasn't [Tarble] said to have tried to fight Abo and Kado before, couldn't really stand up to them but survived, and managed to escape? I guess they could've just not really tried since they didn't take him all that seriously, but still... I'd have to wonder just how much a couple of guys on Freeza's level would have to be holding back for someone that weak to fight them at all and not end up beaten half to death.

When he arrived the Z-warriors did notice his ki, so I would put him at about the same level as... Captain Ginyu. Very weak compared to the (non-human) Z-warriors by the end of the Majin Buu saga but still extremely powerful compared to normal humans and aliens.

Hugo Boss · Post by **Hugo Boss** » Sun May 04, 2014 3:16 pm

I see the strength's relationship between Tarble and Abo&Cado brothers like Mirai Trunks and Lapis&Lazuli cyborgs.

Gogeta8001 · Post by **Gogeta8001** » Mon May 05, 2014 1:41 pm

My most recent list.

Note: Unlike a lot of people here, I don't believe Frieza > Base Saiyans so try to cut me some slack. Also, I use a 5X SSJ multiplier from when after the Saiyans leave the RoSaT in the Cell Arc to the end of the series and my GT multipliers are very small because all the non-SSJ4 forms are irrelevant at this point of time. I'll still be using the SEG numbers for SSJ2 and SSJ3 though.

Multipliers

Spoiler:

DBZ

Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga

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Freeza Saga and Trunks Saga

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Android Saga and Cell Saga

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Cell Games Saga and Great Saiyaman Saga

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World Tournament Saga and Babidi Saga

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Majin Buu Saga and Fusion Saga

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DBZ Specials

Bardock, The Father Of Goku and Trunks, The Lone Warrior

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DBZ Movies

Movie 1: Dead Zone and Garlic Jr. Saga

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Movie 2: World's Strongest and Movie 3: Tree Of Might

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Movie 4: Lord Slug and Movie 5: Cooler's Revenge

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Movie 6: Return of Cooler and Movie 7: Super Andriod 13

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Movie 8: Broly, The Legendary Super Saiyan and Movie 9: Bojack Unbound

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Movie 10: Broly, Second Coming and Movie 11: Bio Broly

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Movie 12: Fusion Reborn and Movie 13: Wrath Of The Dragon

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Movie 14: Battle of Gods

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DBGT

Black-Star Dragon Ball Saga and Baby Saga

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Super 17 Saga and Shadow Dragon Saga

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auspx · Post by **auspx** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:19 am

[This is not a list of what the power levels are but of what they should have been]
[This is a fan-made, NON-canon, list of power levels for the EoB, DB Minus, and the Saiyans and Freeza saga]

This is what it could have been if everyone in DBZ didn't become so ridiculously overpowered so quickly:

Bardock = PL 1500
SSJ Bardock = PL 75,000 and 750,000 in golden oozaru form
Chilled = PL 10,000
Chilled's henchmen = PL ~500 to 1000 each
Bardock's teammates = PL ~800 to 1000 each
Gine = PL ~400 to 500

Goku (vs Raditz) = PL 400
Piccolo (vs Raditz) = PL 400
Raditz = PL 1000 yes even weaker than he was in the real story
Gohan = PL 50 normally, 1000 when angry
Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu = the same as in the real story

Goku (after Kaiosama's training) = PL 4000 because a 10x boost seems a lot more reasonable than going from 400 to "over 8000".
Goku using kaioken x2 = PL 8000... kaioken x 3 = PL 12,000... kaioken x4 = PL 16,000
Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu (after Kamisama's training) = PL ~1000 each
Saibamen = PL~1000 each
Piccolo (vs Nappa) = PL 2000
Gohan (vs Nappa) = PL 2500
Nappa = PL 4000 but this time 4000 would actually make sense and explain why Goku didn't KO Nappa with one punch
Vegeta = PL 12,000

Vegeta (on Planet Namek, after his zenkai) = PL 15,000
Kiwi = PL 12,000
Dodoria = PL 13,000
Zarbon = PL 13,000 normally and 17,000 in monster form
Appule = PL 150
Vegeta (after his zenkai from Zarbon) = PL 20,000
Gohan (after the powerup from the Namekian Great Elder) = PL 10,000
Kuririn (after the powerup from the Namekian Great Elder) = PL 1500 because he is only human
Guldo = PL 1000
Reacoom, Butta, Jheese = PL 25,000 each
Goku (when he arrives on Planet Namek) = PL 5000 but up to 50,000 with kaioken x10
Vegeta (after eating a senzu bean) = PL 20,000 yes still only 20,000 even an elite saiyan must have some kind of limit to how far his base PL can rise
Gohan (after eating a senzu bean) = PL 12,000

Why is Goku's PL still only 5000 even after the zenkai and after training in 100x Earth gravity? Because he is a low-class saiyan and shouldn't that actually mean something? Shouldn't there be some kind of limit to how far his base PL can rise even after many zenkais and very difficult training? Training in 100x Earth gravity should have strengthened his body to the point that he can survive a kaioken x 100 but it would not raise his base PL to absurd levels. He is a low-class warrior. And you will see that the SSJ transformation will be much more powerful than it was in the real story.

Captain Ginyu = PL 40,000
Normal Namekians = PL 150 to 2000
Freeza's low-level goons = PL ~1000 each
Nail = PL 10,000

Vegeta (vs 1st form Freeza) = PL 20,000
Gohan (vs 1st form Freeza) = PL 12,000
Kuririn (vs 1st form Freeza) = PL 1500
1st form Freeza = PL 100,000 yes that's right only 100,000
2nd form Freeza = PL 200,000
Piccolo + Nail fused = PL 200,000
3rd form Freeza = PL 400,000
4th form Freeza = starts at PL 800,000 but that's only 25% of his real power
Vegeta (vs 4th form Freeza) = still only at PL 20,000 a total joke compared to Freeza at this point
Goku (vs 4th form Freeza) = base PL 5000 but up to 500,000 with kaioken x100
4th form Freeza at 50% of his real power = PL 1,600,000
Goku (now using kaioken x200) = PL 1,000,000 but still losing to Freeza at 50%

The SSJ transformation = a x1000 boost to base PL
SSJ Goku = PL 5,000,000
4th form Freeza at 100% of his real power = PL 3,200,000 and losing badly to SSJ Goku

King Cold = PL 200,000
Cyborg Freeza = PL 200,000 but could go up to 1,600,000
Future Trunks = base PL 5000 and 5,000,000 in SSJ form

See the difference? In this alternative version of DBZ techniques like the kaioken are much more powerful (up to base PL x200) when fully mastered and the SSJ transformation is incredibly powerful (base PL x1000) like a legendary transformation should be. If DBZ was like this, then very high base PLs and over the top zenkais wouldn't be necessary, even the saiyans would have a much more realistic limit to how far their base PL can increase no matter what they do.
It would also mean that when Vegeta finally became a super saiyan he would be more powerful than SSJ Goku, like he is supposed to be because he is an elite and Goku is low-class. It would force Goku to train harder to unlock the SSJ2 and SSJ3 forms to keep up with Vegeta.

Remember that in this alternative version of DBZ the SSJ1 transformation is a x1000 boost to base PL.
Goku's base PL is 5000 and that's as far as it goes. SSJ Goku has a PL of 5,000,000
Vegeta's base PL is 20,000 and that's as far as it goes. SSJ Vegeta has a PL of 20,000,000
Gohan's base PL is 12,000 and that's as far as it goes. SSJ Gohan has a PL of 12,000,000
Piccolo + Kamisama fused = PL 20,000,000 because someone has to keep Vegeta from becoming a villain again and killing Goku

So what would the SSJ2 transformation be? It would be base PL x2000 and SSJ3 would be base PL x3000.
As you can see at this rate even SSJ3 Goku would still be weaker than SSJ1 Vegeta... as he should be because Vegeta is an elite and Goku is low-class. But on the other hand Vegeta would never unlock the SSJ2 and SSJ3 because he is not the main hero of DragonBall and he really doesn't deserve it. On the other hand Gohan might some day reach SSJ2 but he would never reach SSJ3 level.

Goku would have a lot more motivation to push himself beyond SSJ3 but there's nothing beyond that level except... the golden oozaru form. To make the long story short, Goku would at some point realize that he needs his tail back (he could just gather the dragonballs and wish for it) and he needs to master SSJ3 and the oozaru form which is something that he would probably do alone in the ROSAT. Let's do the math:

Goku's base PL is 5000 and that's all it ever will be because he is low-class. SSJ3 is base PL x3000 so at this level Goku's PL is now 15,000,000
Now take that 15,000,000 and apply the x10 boost from the oozaru transformation, so SSJ3 Goku in golden oozaru form has a PL of 150,000,000 which in this version of DBZ is more than Perfect Cell's PL. As for the Buu saga, Goku and Vegeta could still do the fusion but in the end Kid Buu would still be defeated with a genki dama.

As for the whole SSJ god thing... let's put it this way, it's not a multiplier. It's an entirely different level of power.
On a scale of 1 to 10:
Whis = 10/10
Beerus = 8/10
SSJ god Goku = 7/10
Vegetto = 4/10

xmysticgohanx · Post by **xmysticgohanx** » Sat May 10, 2014 10:41 am

Where does everyone have King Cold and Metal Freeza?

Gogeta8001 · Post by **Gogeta8001** » Sun May 11, 2014 3:27 pm

xmysticgohanx wrote:Where does everyone have King Cold and Metal Freeza?

Mecha Frieza was content with challenging SSJ Goku again so it's safe to say he's at least as strong as SSJ Goku @Namek and King Cold was around 70,000,000ish to be considered weaker than 50% Frieza.

DannyDBZfanforever · Post by **DannyDBZfanforever** » Mon May 12, 2014 12:06 am

Based on the manga, and if the numbers are not wrong in Daizenshuu, the power level of SSJ 3 Goku (Buu Saga) should be between 18000KK and 30000kk (max).

KentalSSJ6 · Post by **KentalSSJ6** » Mon May 12, 2014 6:46 pm

DannyDBZfanforever wrote:Based on the manga, and if the numbers are not wrong in Daizenshuu, the power level of SSJ 3 Goku (Buu Saga) should be between 18000KK and 30000kk (max).

Goku's numbers stopped being tracked at Namek where he was last pegged at 3 Million. The whole Kili statment makes no sense as well as it would imply Goku didn't get stronger at all between Namek to Buu seeing as he was read at 3,000 kiki and one kili = 50k BP. 3k X 50k = 150 million.

If you put his last recorded base pl through the forms hed be 150 million at SSJ1, 300 million at SSJ2, and 1.2 Billion at SSJ3.

Personally I have base BOG Goku at 100 million. Enough to lose to Freeza without Super Saiyan and more than enough to win with it.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Fri May 16, 2014 2:42 pm

I reworked my power levels from page 209, so it could match up with how I perceive Toriyama's thinking is now on their strengths.

* indicates official Battle Powers.
Dragon Ball Minus

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Dragon Ball part 1

Search for the Dragon Balls Arc

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The 21st Strongest under the Heavens Tournament.

Spoiler:

The Battle with the Red Ribbon Army.

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The 22nd Strongest under the Heavens Tournament.

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The Piccolo Daimao Arc.

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The 23rd Strongest under the Heavens Tournament.

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Dragon Ball part 2

The Battle with Raditz

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The Battle with Nappa and Vegeta

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Go for it! The Planet Namek.

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The Terrible Ginyu Special-Squad.

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The Legendary Super Saiyan.

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Multipliers

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Trunks the Story –A Lone Warrior–

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The Boy from the Future

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The Androids unleashed.

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Cell's Complete Form, Achieved!!

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The Cell Games Begin

Spoiler:

Peace for the Future...

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The 25th Strongest under the Heavens Tournament

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The Battle with Babidi's fighters and Majin Buu

Spoiler:

The Terrible New Majin Buu

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A Match with the Whole Universe at Stake

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Battle of Gods

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DBZGTKOSDH · Post by **DBZGTKOSDH** » Fri May 16, 2014 5:12 pm

Why do you place SS3 Goku above SS Gotenks & U. Gohan?

KentalSSJ6 · Post by **KentalSSJ6** » Fri May 16, 2014 5:49 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why do you place SS3 Goku above SS Gotenks & U. Gohan?

I was gonna ask the same thing. Excluding BOG It should be Super Veggeto > Buuhan > Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (post ROSAT) > SSJ3 Goku.

dbgtFO · Post by **dbgtFO** » Fri May 16, 2014 6:32 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why do you place SS3 Goku above SS Gotenks & U. Gohan?

As I wrote at the beginning of the post, that's how I perceive Toriyama thinks of their relative placements today based on the admittedly miniscule evidence available.
It's a joke more than anything and that's why there are those statements ridiculing Gohan and the kids and praising Goku to Heaven.

Kanzenshuu

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