USSJ's Boost > SSJ2's Boost?!

[xmysticgohanx]

Perfect Cell said USSJ Trunks was stronger than himself. Also, before Goku did any training in the RoSaT Gohan said USSJ Goku was stronger than Semi Perfect Cell. It sounds to be over a 2x boost especially since Trunks was amazed by Goku's half power at the Cell Games.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Cell said that SSG3 Trunks' power surpassed his current power, not his true power. 50% SSFP Goku was probably stronger than SSG3 Trunks, and I believe that SS2 gives a greater boost.

[KentalSSJ6]

Perfect Cell said USSJ Trunks was stronger than himself. Also, before Goku did any training in the RoSaT Gohan said USSJ Goku was stronger than Semi Perfect Cell. It sounds to be over a 2x boost especially since Trunks was amazed by Goku's half power at the Cell Games.

Cell was heavily suppressing himself.

[dbgtFO]

Perfect Cell said USSJ Trunks was stronger than himself. Also, before Goku did any training in the RoSaT Gohan said USSJ Goku was stronger than Semi Perfect Cell. It sounds to be over a 2x boost especially since Trunks was amazed by Goku's half power at the Cell Games.

Usually in my power levels lists Grade III gives a bigger boost than SS2 precisely because of the second point you made, which I coincidentally also addressed earlier today in the power levels thread.
If they come up with official multipliers, I wouldn't be surprised, they failed to take that into account.

[Kaboom]

I find that things fit comfortably if one considers Grade 3 to have an equal boost to Super Saiyan 2. Which works well if you think of them as the same reserve of power just being manifested in two different ways.

[Darkprince410]

Perfect Cell said USSJ Trunks was stronger than himself. Also, before Goku did any training in the RoSaT Gohan said USSJ Goku was stronger than Semi Perfect Cell. It sounds to be over a 2x boost especially since Trunks was amazed by Goku's half power at the Cell Games.

Trunks was completely awestruck by the level of power Goku was actually emitting when he powered up to full during his fight with Cell, exclaiming that Goku was truly amazing (in turn suggesting that he was bewildered by just how powerful Goku was). Furthermore, when Goku announced he was giving up so that Gohan could fight, but before he said Gohan was replacing him, Cell makes the comment that he knows that both Vegeta and Trunks had grown more powerful than before, but still would be weaker than he (Goku) was. As such, and given that the gap between Goku's base and Trunks' base likely isn't THAT large, the boost from Ssj Grade 3 isn't anywhere near Ssj2's boost.

Besides, as mentioned, when Cell made that comment, he wasn't using anywhere near his full strength, likely not even half.

[dbgtFO]

Perfect Cell said USSJ Trunks was stronger than himself. Also, before Goku did any training in the RoSaT Gohan said USSJ Goku was stronger than Semi Perfect Cell. It sounds to be over a 2x boost especially since Trunks was amazed by Goku's half power at the Cell Games.

Trunks was completely awestruck by the level of power Goku was actually emitting when he powered up to full during his fight with Cell, exclaiming that Goku was truly amazing (in turn suggesting that he was bewildered by just how powerful Goku was). Furthermore, when Goku announced he was giving up so that Gohan could fight, but before he said Gohan was replacing him, Cell makes the comment that he knows that both Vegeta and Trunks had grown more powerful than before, but still would be weaker than he (Goku) was. As such, and given that the gap between Goku's base and Trunks' base likely isn't THAT large, the boost from Ssj Grade 3 isn't anywhere near Ssj2's boost.

Besides, as mentioned, when Cell made that comment, he wasn't using anywhere near his full strength, likely not even half.

I really doubt anyone at the Cell Games except for the Earthlings perhaps would be thinking of the ultra bulky state, when comparing powers.
The prior events would have made it very clear for everyone, that it doesn't serve as a proper reflexion of one's power.

[dbzfan7]

I find that things fit comfortably if one considers Grade 3 to have an equal boost to Super Saiyan 2. Which works well if you think of them as the same reserve of power just being manifested in two different ways.

I go by this too. I just have SSJ2 being the proper Grade 3.

[ZombieVito]

Lets see:

I have Grade 2 multiplier at 1.5 and Grade 3 at another 1.5 boost, that gives us a total of a 2.25 boost from regular SSJ. It is a bigger boost haha.

[Cursed Lemon]

I find that things fit comfortably if one considers Grade 3 to have an equal boost to Super Saiyan 2. Which works well if you think of them as the same reserve of power just being manifested in two different ways.

This is how I see it as well.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

Super Saiyan 2 form is like Super Saiyan Grade 3 - that's perfectly balanced in power and speed to me. As Trunks said Gohan did it right without losing speed.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

As Trunks said Gohan did it right without losing speed.

Wasn't that a dub line?

[Super Vegetto]

Yes it's dub line...

SSJ2 is second level..USSJ is still part of first level of Super Saiyan,,,the simple way to tell which is stronger...

[DieHard]

I find that things fit comfortably if one considers Grade 3 to have an equal boost to Super Saiyan 2. Which works well if you think of them as the same reserve of power just being manifested in two different ways.

There is a databook calling SSFP like SSG4,that implies it is already using the "reserve of power" from SSG3,

[Vegeto30294]

The thing is, with all that extra Ki that USSJ brings, can they even do anything with it? We have Trunks trying to punch Cell into submission, and Goku saying he's stronger as USSJ, but can they preform a decent energy attack without falling apart?

Like can USSJ Goku use all that extra power to make a decent Kamehameha without falling apart two seconds later?

If not, then USSJ isn't even better than MSSJ, considering that the usage of Ki is pretty much vital winning a battle.

[IgnorantFuniFan]

I believe that stage 3 has the same strength boost as super saiyan 2 only in that, they would both be able to lift the same amount of weight. In combat though, it is very important to be explosive when attacking, with quick-twitch muscle movement. I play football, and when I lift weights, i do push press and cleans, which help you to be quicker and more explosive. I'd still be just as strong if I didn't do these excercises, but my raw strength alone wouldn't help me during a game when I have to push a blocker off of me, because I would have no explosive power. This is why trunks was able to drive cell into the ground when they locked hands, because it only required raw strength to do so. But because the 3rd stage only increases raw strength, trunks's acceleration drastically decreased. Super saiyan 2 on the other hand, comes with a boost in both strength and power, which allows gohan to attack more explosively, with the same strength as a stage 3 super saiyan. The combination of power and strength makes punching and kicking a hella more effective. So what I'm trying to say is, when it comes to raw strength and explosive power, it's not very useful to have one without the other.

[DieHard]

The thing is, with all that extra Ki that USSJ brings, can they even do anything with it? We have Trunks trying to punch Cell into submission, and Goku saying he's stronger as USSJ, but can they preform a decent energy attack without falling apart?

Like can USSJ Goku use all that extra power to make a decent Kamehameha without falling apart two seconds later?

If not, then USSJ isn't even better than MSSJ, considering that the usage of Ki is pretty much vital winning a battle.

Still better than kaioken.

[Son_Gohan]

The thing is, with all that extra Ki that USSJ brings, can they even do anything with it? We have Trunks trying to punch Cell into submission, and Goku saying he's stronger as USSJ, but can they preform a decent energy attack without falling apart?

Like can USSJ Goku use all that extra power to make a decent Kamehameha without falling apart two seconds later?

If not, then USSJ isn't even better than MSSJ, considering that the usage of Ki is pretty much vital winning a battle.

Roshi’s body is shown to transform a similar way only to employ his full power Kamehameha, and he’s an elderly human.

Krillin witnesses both Trunks and Goku’s power first-hand, yet the latter is expressed as far superior in just Ki alone:

Chapter: 398 (DBZ 204), P7.1-3
Context: everyone gawking at Goku’s full power
Kuririn: “This really is an incredible ki…! It figures he’d outstrip everyone.”


The story wouldn’t suggest the grade forms possess any power rivaling a SSj2 when Goku in just his first stage is enough to overshadow them completely. On top of that, we don’t know if the grade forms even give a set boost in power. They’re not shown to work like a true transformation of Super Saiyan, as they aren’t connected to their base forms and are only shown to be accessible through raising their battle power while in the preceding stage until apparently hitting a threshold, which may be different for everyone.

The fact that they’re never seen again after their initial appearances wouldn’t support them being anything more than a byproduct of not adapting their bodies to contain the deeper reserves of power for their SSj1 form. Grade II was expressed and stated in the Daizenshuu to increase both speed and power but evidently no longer exists by the time of the Cell Games when such a boost would've come in handy.

[Gokuden]

Hahaha, here's where the trap is portrayed with Goku. Sure MSSJ Goku appears to have more ki, and speed in his reservoir, while giving the impression that his strength superior to Trunks, but what happens when he shoots an all-out powerful Kamehameha? His stats drop like a bowling ball in a swimming pool.

Why? Because his reservoir, though being larger than Trunks, and making everyone gawk at his aura, does not replenish as fast as that of a Super Saiyan Grade 3, or a Super Saiyan 2. The forms with a seemingly never-ending abundance of ki.

When Trunks was going all-out with Cell, his power did not fade, it rose, until a certain point where the only thing holding him back was his lack of speed. His reservoir of ki was steady.

Let me use a water tank analogy; say SSG4 Goku had a large water tank of 170,000 L, but the pipes replenishing the water reserve were small, and it would take him more time to gain ki, as opposed to SSJG3 who had a water Tank of 150,000 L, but larger pipes that were 5x the size of Goku's, and kept pumping an enormous amount of Ki through Trunks when his energy levels would dip.

A computer analogy of 5GB of SDDR2 @ 2.0v 300mhz vs 4GB of SDDR4 @ 1.0v 3,200mhz (Samsung was right on schedule to release it earlier this year, before the ram shortage conspiracy that was just smoke, and didn't fricken cause any damage to the damn products @Hynix).

So who's able to replenish their energy faster, and access more ki with less stress on the resevoir? It's not Goku by a mile.

When Trunks said Gohan's doing it properly, he wasn't referring to raw strength, quantity of ki, or fighting technique, oh no, it was SPEED.

When Goku blasted Cell to near-death, then gave him a sensu bean as a gesture of goodwill, or because of his mild retardation, he said he would have killed Cell had the blast been larger (same applies to Super Vegeta). But, Cell did get a Zenkai boost, how big it was is a mystery, but since Saiyans at near-death get a massive boost, you can expect the same from someone with the same infrastructure.

And who's Kamehameha was large, and had a massive output of endless ki that killed Cell? Gohan! The only things he had slowing him down were mental blocks, and cockiness.

Had Trunks been fast enough, he would have ended the Saga before the Cell Games as a humble half-breed warrior.

What good is a warrior without the will to fight? Useless. How good is a warrior without the will to fight? A liability. How Good is warrior who fights with his tongue? A liability.

I have MSSJG @ x1.865 (Warp KAMEHAMEHA), while 'direct' Ascended Trunks (Daddy, I'm strong, but not as strong as the Prince of all Saiyans! ) @ x1.60, and x1.8 Powered-Up SSJG3 against a weaker Cell, before training again after ROSAT (But form was no longer used again).

Super Vegeta before Cell games @ x1.65. Did not use SSJG3, and it still remains a question of just how powerful it would have been had he used it.

A regular SSJ2 @ x2.0, while Rage boost Gohan adds +0.3.5

These are just my views, also add to the fact that everyone's base level varies.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

When Trunks said Gohan's doing it properly, he wasn't referring to raw strength, quantity of ki, or fighting technique, oh no, it was SPEED.

When did Trunks say that?