How good are DBZ characters at martial arts?

[Bullza]

If you made the characters equal in strength and speed to each other and you took away all other special abilities so it was merely a hand to hand dual, then based purely on skill how do you think characters like Goku or any other characters would compare to other established fighters like Ryu, Jin Kazama, Batman, Captain America, Might Guy or Sanji.

Could Frieza beat Akuma in a hand to hand fight or could Roshi beat Heihachi Mishima and so on.

Are DBZ characters truly phenomenal fighters or is it a lot of it down to their power.

[KentalSSJ6]

If you made the characters equal in strength and speed to each other and you took away all other special abilities so it was merely a hand to hand dual, then based purely on skill how do you think characters like Goku or any other characters would compare to other established fighters like Ryu, Jin Kazama, Batman, Captain America, Might Guy or Sanji.

Could Freeza beat Akuma in a hand to hand fight or could Roshi beat Heihachi Mishima and so on.

Are DBZ characters truly phenomenal fighters or is it a lot of it down to their power.

Well in Movie 3 Goku fends Tullece's entire Crusher Core with hand to hand combat.

Of the fighters you listed id say Batman could be a threat seeing the ridiculous amounts of Martial Arts styles he's mastered. Captain America doesn't have a whole lot going for him without the super soldier serum. Guy and Sanji arent really that impressive without their abilities to fall back on either.

[Kamiccolo9]

If you made the characters equal in strength and speed to each other and you took away all other special abilities so it was merely a hand to hand dual, then based purely on skill how do you think characters like Goku or any other characters would compare to other established fighters like Ryu, Jin Kazama, Batman, Captain America, Might Guy or Sanji.

Could Freeza beat Akuma in a hand to hand fight or could Roshi beat Heihachi Mishima and so on.

Are DBZ characters truly phenomenal fighters or is it a lot of it down to their power.

Well in Movie 3 Goku fends Tullece's entire Crusher Core with hand to hand combat.

Of the fighters you listed id say Batman could be a threat seeing the ridiculous amounts of Martial Arts styles he's mastered. Captain America doesn't have a whole lot going for him without the super soldier serum. Guy and Sanji arent really that impressive without their abilities to fall back on either.

The Super Soldier Serum wouldn't matter in this instance; all of the fighters have equal physical attributes. JLA/Avengers had Batman admitting that Captain America would probably beat him in a fight, so at the very least I'd consider them equal in skill.

[Hitiro]

The Super Soldier Serum wouldn't matter in this instance; all of the fighters have equal physical attributes. JLA/Avengers had Batman admitting that Captain America would probably beat him in a fight, so at the very least I'd consider them equal in skill.

If Batman says that, which is strange because I would have fought Cap America has a lot less skill, then Goku should be able to clean them both up if they were all equal in strength. I feel Goku was only keeping up with Cell due to his considerable martial arts skills during their fight. Goku is probably the best martial artist of the the whole manga. Being literally taught it at such a young age. Kame-sennin is also a pretty amazing martial artist as well as Tien. Anybody else I wouldn't consider to have the martial arts skills to match anybody from other universes. Kuririn was a monk for a period of time but I thought that he was considered sub-par? Compared to the other monks.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Super Soldier Serum wouldn't matter in this instance; all of the fighters have equal physical attributes. JLA/Avengers had Batman admitting that Captain America would probably beat him in a fight, so at the very least I'd consider them equal in skill.

If Batman says that, which is strange because I would have fought Cap America has a lot less skill, then Goku should be able to clean them both up if they were all equal in strength. I feel Goku was only keeping up with Cell due to his considerable martial arts skills during their fight. Goku is probably the best martial artist of the the whole manga. Being literally taught it at such a young age. Kame-sennin is also a pretty amazing martial artist as well as Tenshinhan. Anybody else I wouldn't consider to have the martial arts skills to match anybody from other universes. Kuririn was a monk for a period of time but I thought that he was considered sub-par? Compared to the other monks.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

There you go.

Both Captain America and Batman are masters of virtually every form of martial arts. As I recall, we never actually see Goku getting trained in martial arts. His training with Kame-sennin consisted of weight training, with Goku and Krillin even mentioning that they didn't actually learn any fighting techniques, and even if his off panel training was spectacular, he doesn't have the variety that Cap and Batman do.

[Hitiro]

There you go.

Both Captain America and Batman are masters of virtually every form of martial arts. As I recall, we never actually see Goku getting trained in martial arts. His training with Kame-sennin consisted of weight training, with Goku and Krillin even mentioning that they didn't actually learn any fighting techniques, and even if his off panel training was spectacular, he doesn't have the variety that Cap and Batman do.

Well of course Captain America is going to have a upper hand there because of the super soldier serum. That offsets any difference in Batman's martial arts. I would assume that if they were both actually equal then Batman would come out on top.

While we don't actually see Goku getting trained in martial arts he does demonstrate martial arts techniques in the tournament. Such as the mad dog and crazy monkey.

[Kamiccolo9]

There you go.

Both Captain America and Batman are masters of virtually every form of martial arts. As I recall, we never actually see Goku getting trained in martial arts. His training with Kame-sennin consisted of weight training, with Goku and Krillin even mentioning that they didn't actually learn any fighting techniques, and even if his off panel training was spectacular, he doesn't have the variety that Cap and Batman do.

Well of course Captain America is going to have a upper hand there because of the super soldier serum. That offsets any difference in Batman's martial arts. I would assume that if they were both actually equal then Batman would come out on top.

While we don't actually see Goku getting trained in martial arts he does demonstrate martial arts techniques in the tournament. Such as the mad dog and crazy monkey.

Captain America is peak human. Batman is more or less peak human. Any difference in their physical attributes there is negligible. And both have shown themselves capable of fighting superhuman opponents.

And you are really underestimating Captain America. I take it you don't read much Marvel? He's one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel Universe, and has defeated multiple opponents even when deprived of the effects of the serum.

[Bullza]

Yeah Captain America is no joke he even beat down Spider-man. He is a bit stronger than Batman though. They're both masters of dozens of martial arts while Goku is only a master of one style.

Still Goku must be an exceptional fighter. Roshi was like 300 years old when he fought Goku, that's hundreds of years of experience, he fought and won in World Tournaments and Goku was on par with him physically despite only being 12 and probably only had a few years training with his Grandpa and fought a handful of people.

I don't know if he could take people like Batman but he's probably above the likes of the usual Street Fighter/Tekken characters.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah Captain America is no joke he even beat down Spider-man. He is a bit stronger than Batman though. They're both masters of dozens of martial arts while Goku is only a master of one style.

Still Goku must be an exceptional fighter. Roshi was like 300 years old when he fought Goku, that's hundreds of years of experience, he fought and won in World Tournaments and Goku was on par with him physically despite only being 12 and probably only had a few years training with his Grandpa and fought a handful of people.

I don't know if he could take people like Batman but he's probably above the likes of the usual Street Fighter/Tekken characters.

That's where I would put him as well. He's plenty skilled, but he doesn't have the experience or the versatility to take on martial arts grandmasters like Batman or Cap. He'd put up a good fight for a bit, and then they would find a weakness in his technique and crush him.

[Hitiro]

Captain America is peak human. Batman is more or less peak human. Any difference in their physical attributes there is negligible. And both have shown themselves capable of fighting superhuman opponents.

And you are really underestimating Captain America. I take it you don't read much Marvel? He's one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel Universe, and has defeated multiple opponents even when deprived of the effects of the serum.

Batman is peak human strength and endurance too. Where Batman falls down is reflexes and reaction speed. Both of which the super soldier formula augment to peak human capabilities. Batman can train strength and endurance but not his reflexes and reaction speed. Those things can only be honed so far and are the first things to go into decline once you reach your peak. I do read Marvel but from what I remember he only learned mostly Judo and American boxing and mixed those two to create his own form of hand-to-hand combat. As opposed to Batman who has "apparently" learned every martial arts and has even learned from the Manhunters. Which is silly really because it would take more years than he has alive to learn every martial arts known to man.

As for putting everyone on an equal pegging. Are we also turning Goku into a human? Because Saiyan bodies are much more durable then human ones.

[Kamiccolo9]

Captain America is peak human. Batman is more or less peak human. Any difference in their physical attributes there is negligible. And both have shown themselves capable of fighting superhuman opponents.

And you are really underestimating Captain America. I take it you don't read much Marvel? He's one of the greatest martial artists in the Marvel Universe, and has defeated multiple opponents even when deprived of the effects of the serum.

Batman is peak human strength and endurance too. Where Batman falls down is reflexes and reaction speed. Both of which the super soldier formula augment to peak human capabilities. Batman can train strength and endurance but not his reflexes and reaction speed. Those things can only be honed so far and are the first things to go into decline once you reach your peak. I do read Marvel but from what I remember he only learned mostly Judo and American boxing and mixed those two to create his own form of hand-to-hand combat. As opposed to Batman who has "apparently" learned every martial arts and has even learned from the Manhunters. Which is silly really because it would take more years than he has alive to learn every martial arts known to man.

Ok, you have a fairly limited knowledge of Captain America then. He mainly utilizes the two you mentioned, but exhibits techniques from numerous others, and, as you said, has blended all of them to form his own fighting style. The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe gives his fighting skills a 6 out of 7, which is also given to Wolverine, Daredevil, and several gods of war. (It should be noted that a 7 out of 7 is considered to be a master of all forms of combat, and has been seen to include energy and magically assisted combat, something which Captain America would be incapable of). Cap is considered, in universe, to be the standard to which practically every other hero aspires to be in terms of fighting prowess (as well as other things, but those are irrelevant here.)

To be honest, I'd place them about even, discounting all other things such as the shield, Batman's gadgets, prep time for Batman to come up with some super Bat-plot where he pulls an anti-Captain America taser out of his ass, and backup, as Cap is clearly the superior team member.

Regardless, either of them would crush Goku in an "everything else being equal" match. Goku just can't compete with these two. I doubt anyone in the DB universe that we have seen could.

[Bullza]

I suppose you'd have to give Goku equal durability as well otherwise that'd be an unfair advantage.

[Kamiccolo9]

I suppose you'd have to give Goku equal durability as well otherwise that'd be an unfair advantage.

Oh? I was assuming that all physical attributes were equal, and we were just going on fighting ability.
Goku still can't compete with these two. They are miles ahead of him and the Tekken people you mentioned, and, I'd assume, the other guys too (although I'm not familiar with them, so I could be wrong.)

[goku the krump dancer]

Well Roshi did say that he didn't NEED to teach Goku and Krillin martial arts because they were already tought their respective styles. Goku's "Kame turtle style" and whatever style Krillin learned at the Orinji Temple already thought them how to fight, Roshi's training was only a means to make them stronger.

And While Goku may not be the master of every style there is, he was shown to be able to copy or imitate techniques on the fly so that COULD help him.

[Bullza]

Oh? I was assuming that all physical attributes were equal, and we were just going on fighting ability.

We are, strength, speed, durability, reaction speeds all equal.

And While Goku may not be able the master of every style there is, he was shown to be able to copy or imitate techniques on the fly so that COULD help him.

Yeah that's what Goku really has going for him, he's able to think up counters on the spot like when he was thrown out of the ring and used his tail to fly back in or when he held his breath to stay aloft in the air to avoid being kicked out of the ring.

He also comes up with clever strategies like using a triple afterimage, using rock instead of paper or using the sunglasses to catch opponents off guard. The same strategy doesn't really work on Goku twice.

[Hitiro]

Goku is also a fighting genius which is also a benefit on his side. While Batman and Captain America are formidable characters I feel their strengths lie outside of combat. Such as Batman being one of the best detectives in world. Or Captain America having a great ability for leadership and commanding a team due to his military experience.

[dario03]

Hard question since power is such a big factor in DB. Goku is supposed to be a fighting genius so I think he could do pretty well but I don't know about beating Cap or Batman. And with those two I think Bats statement would be influenced by the serum. AFAIK Batman is near peak human levels, so basically Olympic athlete level in every category. But Cap is peak peak, you can't out do him at anything with out getting into super human level. So for example Usian Bolt averages ~23mph and peaks around 27 but according to the Marvel Wiki Cap can run 49mph and he can exert himself at max for over a hour. So with the way Batman says Cap could beat him but it would take a long time (and Batman probably able to gauge Cap's physical level) I would think with all things equal Batman would think he would win (but still be close).

[Rocketman]

I think the vast amount of DB characters would lose horribly to guys like Captain America, Batman and Kratos if everybody was on even footing.

And actually, I think even the martial arts masters in DB would be in for a rough time, because DB's martial arts is completely intertwined with ki use. You might see guys like King Chappa do far better than Roshi or Goku.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think the vast amount of DB characters would lose horribly to guys like Captain America, Batman and Kratos if everybody was on even footing.

And actually, I think even the martial arts masters in DB would be in for a rough time, because DB's martial arts is completely intertwined with ki use. You might see guys like King Chappa do far better than Roshi or Goku.

Does Kratos really deserve to be on the same level as Batman and Captain America with just his fighting skills? I didn't really get that impression from GoW.

[KentalSSJ6]

I think the vast amount of DB characters would lose horribly to guys like Captain America, Batman and Kratos if everybody was on even footing.

And actually, I think even the martial arts masters in DB would be in for a rough time, because DB's martial arts is completely intertwined with ki use. You might see guys like King Chappa do far better than Roshi or Goku.

Does Kratos really deserve to be on the same level as Batman and Captain America with just his fighting skills? I didn't really get that impression from GoW.

Same, he's not really anything special without his weapons. What little fighting we see him in as a mortal wasent that impressive either.