What Made Dragon Ball Better Than Dragon Ball Z?

[thatdbzguy]

For those of us here who like DB more than DBZ (or part 1 more than part 2, if you prefer), what do you think was it about DB that pushed it so far ahead of DBZ? For me it's a few things.

1. Humor. While DB was hilarious, DBZ drops the humor from the series almost completely, and even when it does show up, it's not really funny.

2. Adventure. Like with the humor, DBZ almost completely drops adventure. The most adventurous DBZ ever got was that whole chicken chase on Namek, but because Namek looked exactly the same everywhere (lazy designing much, Toriyama?), it wasn't a good adventure.

3. Variety. From the fights to the overall sagas, I found that DB was just much more variable of a story than DBZ, which amounted to fights and sagas playing out very similarly to each other.

4. Writing. Toriyama is far from a masterful writer, but at least with DB, he knew his limits and did the best he could with the skills he actually did have. For DBZ, he seemed to be trying way too hard into making a story that Toriyama just wasn't skilled enough to write.

What about you?

[Kid Buu]

The first three arcs are my favourite, mainly because it features a strong cast of characters in fun situations.

If I had to pinpoint a moment of decline, the first time I remember being mad at the series was when Yamcha lost to the Mummy only for Goku to beat him in one-hit. It kind of established the beginning of the whole "everyone is dependent on Goku" schtick that would be constantly repeated throughout the series.

By the way, I rhink you should check out Gaffer Tape's reviews of the manga since you are so interested in dissecting the series. I think you would enjoy it.

[Akumaito Beam]

Dragon Ball is kind of a prime example of a series that got stupid from terrible power scaling. Goku was literally the strongest person in the world by the end of part 1 so the beams got bigger, the transformations multiplied 10 fold, the old cast was replaced by a new cast who could keep up, yadda yadda yadda. That fact then proceeded to muddle up the story. How do you have an adventure when the main character can literally fly around the world and level a city with his eyeballs without breaking a sweat? In Goku’s case you need to take him out of commission for half the arc, every arc, sometimes even twice an arc until his triumphant return. Of course the other new characters you made to keep up with Goku can do all that too (to a slightly lesser extent) so let’s just keep them in a rocky canyon, plain or island and have the main focus of the story be them duking it out.

I don’t hate Z or anything, its fun and there are some cool bits and pieces in that series to enjoy. In fact the Namek stuff before Freeza was a pretty good way to nerf your characters and tell a fun adventure story but how many times can you pull off something like that? I feel like Toriyama wrote himself into a long term corner and never recovered from it.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

One thing Ball has, for the most part, is that its storylines and battles are not esoteric. By that I mean Goku is amazing, but the world is enormous and has all kinds of creatures in it, and he and his opponents are not basically gods whose destructive power dictates that their whims decide the fate of entire planets- but this basically goes out the window with King Piccolo the same way it does with any Z arc, all Z did was up the scale, not change the premise. If anything is justifies how the Buu arc plays out, simply because Buu is the logical extreme: if you introduce a villain into this world of strength with no selfish motivations that cannot be placated or satisfied... if you don't fight him, people will die.

I'd say Akumaito ninja'd me to it, but I'm not chucking a post for it.

[samuraix123]

From someone who actually just got through watching the original series, I wouldn't say it was amazingly better! But! I did seem to enjoy it a-lot more than I did Z. The characters don't feel so useless and I actually felt like all the characters was really on an adventure! I loved seeing Master Roshi train Krillin and Goku with the running up the mountains, delivering milk, and making them dodge bee's!!!! hahaha that had me laughing I liked when he also drew the symbol on the rock and threw it into the woods to make them find it and Krillin tried to cheat haha I also loved the amount of tournaments in it because I'm a sucker for those tournaments. I don't want to say that it's better, but I will admit I had a funner time watching the original series.

[TheGmGoken]

Mezeage Tenkaichi theme. Only thing Db needed was Goten. Db had more competive fighting and Goku wasn't an ass. I prefer the support characters for Z. I thought the overall adventure and plot was more fun and felt like a grand adventure. When Db got serious boy did it get real. Db also balanced serious and humor perfectly. Better than any anime...beside 4. Dbz Boo arc failed horribly at it. Namek gags was amusing as well. Overall db told a fun story

[B]

Gohan and Vegeta aren't any fun. Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kame Sennin, and Bulma are.

[Vijay]

DB=DBZ=Toriyama's work.

Its esentially a work/show which relied on humor & adventurous plot, later turned into epic legendary adventure.

I dont get the craze on DB.Its fun, alright. Then? The animation/artistry looks painfully dated which prevents any chances of visual excitement. Unless I read the manga & enjoy Toriyama's drawings, I find it hard to watch most episodes without Fast Forward.

[thatdbzguy]

DB=DBZ=Toriyama's work.

Its esentially a work/show which relied on humor & adventurous plot, later turned into epic legendary adventure.

We're all aware of that. Just because it's the same story doesn't mean we can't pick which parts we favor over the other.

Most people who've watched/read both DB and DBZ favor DB because it's just overall better in pretty much every single area than Z.

[samuraix123]

DB=DBZ=Toriyama's work.

Its esentially a work/show which relied on humor & adventurous plot, later turned into epic legendary adventure.

I dont get the craze on DB.Its fun, alright. Then? The animation/artistry looks painfully dated which prevents any chances of visual excitement. Unless I read the manga & enjoy Toriyama's drawings, I find it hard to watch most episodes without Fast Forward.

I'm not getting anything started here but I'd much rather see the dated artistry stuff than a-lot of stuff today. Just my opinion. I started watching a show called Attack on Titan and while I like it, I'm not a fan of the way the animation looks. the cells or whatever just stand out way too much? idk that much about it but I just ain't a big fan of the artwork is all.

[Vijay]

DB=DBZ=Toriyama's work.

Its esentially a work/show which relied on humor & adventurous plot, later turned into epic legendary adventure.

We're all aware of that. Just because it's the same story doesn't mean we can't pick which parts we favor over the other.

Most people who've watched/read both DB and DBZ favor DB because it's just overall better in pretty much every single area than Z.

I'd like to know who's the "Most people". Please talk for yourself instead of most people.

Pretty much better than Z in every area? Maybe in your opinion.

I've read DB & DBZ, still prefer Z.

DBZ's sci-fic driven with sporadic dark moments which is rare even by cartoon standard. Ex: some parts of Frieza saga & Android Saga.

Z also introduced my favourite anti-hero, Vegeta. His development throughout Z is definetly responsible for Z's success.

Mighty, pyschotic villains are of my preference. Frieza, Cell & Buu are just that. Piccolo Daimou is the only one frm DB which impressed me.

Humor? I'd say the tone of DBZ was largely serious, thus lack of humor. Unlike sme recent shounen shows which rely on crude slapstick at most inapproriate imes just for the sake of being funny. Z's Buu Arc provided some ROFL moments & thats enough for me.

[thatdbzguy]

Pretty much better than Z in every area? Maybe in your opinion.

I've read DB & DBZ, still prefer Z.

DBZ's sci-fic driven with sporadic dark moments which is rare even by cartoon standard. Ex: some parts of Freeza saga & Android Saga.

Z also introduced my favourite anti-hero, Vegeta. His development throughout Z is definetly responsible for Z's success.

Mighty, pyschotic villains are of my preference. Freeza, Cell & Buu are just that. Piccolo Daimou is the only one frm DB which impressed me.

Humor? I'd say the tone of DBZ was largely serious, thus lack of humor. Unlike sme recent shounen shows which rely on crude slapstick at most inapproriate imes just for the sake of being funny. Z's Buu Arc provided some ROFL moments & thats enough for me.

That's the problem with DBZ, though. It took itself too seriously, and suffered from abysmal writing as a result. If Toriyama tried to make more of a balance between seriousness and humor, like in the Piccolo Daimao arc, then we might not of had this issue.

[Vijay]

Its not even a problem. Absymal writing? Really?

DragonBall's no writing masterpiece. But it standardized shounen's core formula which was merely improvised by its successors. It lay its foundation more than a decade ago & there's still shounen troops struggling to grasp this formula to perfection.

Its funny when you mentioned Piccolo Daimou Arc cuz its very much similar to most DBZ arc. Toriyama merely upped the ante: Epic villain, world-saving Power-up, Titanic clash.

Toriyama is a competent writer alright. Its perfectly unerstandable for fans of mediocre product to criticize its superior.

Characters as Iconic as Son Goku, Vegeta are still cheerished by fans after 20 years. Why? Great characterization. What's the reason? Toriyama's wise, smart writing of infusing both NON-stereotypical attributes & unique designs.

These are just 2 aspects of Toriyama's talent when it comes to writing. If ur hell-bent on showing how pathetic Toriyama is, I'm more than ready to prove otherwise.

DragonBall is a glorious manga, regardless its DB of Z. Its written by an author that has been constantly pushed the continue the series based on the profits the show has made. To actually make an entertaining series for more than 10 years is a testament to his talent.

[Bullza]

Nothing made Dragon Ball better than Dragon Ball Z. It's humour was never particularly funny, it's characters weren't as good as the one's later introduced in DBZ and it had an even more repetitive formula consisting of bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament, bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament, bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament.

[thatdbzguy]

Nothing made Dragon Ball better than Dragon Ball Z. It's humour was never particularly funny, it's characters weren't as good as the one's later introduced in DBZ and it had an even more repetitive formula consisting of bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament, bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament, bad guy is after the Dragon Balls, World Tournament.

How was the humor in Z any better? I can't remember a single funny thing from Z, while I can remember several from DB. The characters were much better than the ones introduced in Z, largely because the plot didn't rely on them being as idiotic as the Saiyans were in order to get the story going (not to mention the Saiyans were significantly more boring and whiny than the humans), and DBZ is no less formulaic than Dragon Ball. Villain appears, people try to beat him, villain transforms, people continue to try and beat him, someone finally beats him. That's every arc of DBZ in a nutshell.

[Bullza]

How was the humor in Z any better?

I never said it was. There was less of it and considering most of DB's humor wasn't funny then it was better off without it.

The characters were much better than the ones introduced in Z

No they weren't that's why Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan were always some of the most popular characters while duds like Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu were thrown aside. The villains were dreadful compared to the likes of Frieza or Cell.

It gave us other crappy characters like Oolong, Puar, Pilaf and co, Turtle etc.

That's every arc of DBZ in a nutshell.

Yet it was done in a vastly superior way. The World Tournaments were but were mostly repetitive and just fight after fight, it was done three times in just 16 volumes. The arcs inbetween were so so at best. The whole second half of the Pilaf arc was terrible, the RRA arc was mostly poor and overly comedic with no sense of threat at all and the Piccolo arc was alright was paled in comparison to DBZ.

[ABED]

I don't agree about the humor, it was funny in DB, but it's not uncommon for shows to vary the amount of humor. DBZ was the more serious show, but still had plenty of good comedy, such as the Ginyu Special Corps

No they weren't that's why Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan were always some of the most popular characters while duds like Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were thrown aside. The villains were dreadful compared to the likes of Freeza or Cell.

It gave us other crappy characters like Oolong, Puar, Pilaf and co, Turtle etc.

Tenshinhan wasn't a dud. At worst, he was underutilized. Pilaf always puts a smile on my face. What's wrong with Umigame?

With the exception of the Saiyan fights, I'll take the fights in DB over DBZ.

[thatdbzguy]

No they weren't that's why Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan were always some of the most popular characters while duds like Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu were thrown aside. The villains were dreadful compared to the likes of Freeza or Cell.

Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu weren't as popular because Toriyama's incompetent writing shoved them to the background so that the Saiyans could hog all the glory. And Cell is by far the worst villain in all of DB.

Yet it was done in a vastly superior way. The World Tournaments were but were mostly repetitive and just fight after fight

How is this different from any of Z's arcs? And how did Z do it any better if all of the fighs were terribly similar to each other while DB's were much more varied?

[Bullza]

Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu weren't as popular because Toriyama's incompetent writing shoved them to the background so that the Saiyans could hog all the glory.

He shoved them to the background because they were useless duds that got replaced by far superior and more interesting characters and rightly so. Krillin and Piccolo weren't pushed aside because they were interesting.

And Cell is by far the worst villain in all of DB.

That's funny considering DB had far worse villains like the gag villains Pilaf, Boss Rabbit, Red. The limp wristed Blue and the stereotype Black. The only good villain in DB was Piccolo. Frieza is better than every DB villain combined.

How is this different from any of Z's arcs? And how did Z do it any better if all of the fighs were terribly similar to each other while DB's were much more varied?

DBZ had plot in between it's fights. Tournaments are poor storytelling devices and a third of DB involved these Tournaments. The fights had more variety but everything else happening around it was non existent.

[ABED]

How are tournament poor storytelling devices?

How is Kuririn a more interesting character than Tenshinhan?