Why can't they do more with these games?

[Bullza]

I just don't understand how they can be so lazy with them. It's a popular franchise, the games could sell but they don't because their is next to nothing to separate them. Ever since Burst Limit they stopped being worth buying.

Why is it so hard for them to do something different?

This upcoming Naruto game has two new original storylines that's going to include 45 minutes of original animated footage. One Piece Unlimited Red had a completely new storyline with new original characters including a villain which was designed by Oda himself.

Why can't Dragon Ball have done something like that? We don't know much about Xenoverse so I'm not taking that into consideration but why couldn't something like this have been done back in 2010 instead of that crappy Raging Blast? What If storys don't mean squat.

Do they not understand that people are fed up of fighting the same battles in the same storyline in the same location for game after game? They don't see how the sales are dropping all the time?

The Naruto Storm game allowed to travel around the villages, take on bonus objectives, collect items, buy things from shops like weapons and items and other things. It stopped the game from being constant fight after fight, gave it some variety.

Why can they not have something like that in a DBZ game? Why can't I go around West City or go in Roshi's Island and talk to characters and do other things in between fights. There could be shops to buy things so I can change my characters moveset or appearance. Why can't they have cinematic boss fights like in Naruto rather than just being those boring fights against giant characters?

Maybe this new game will be different but the very first thing I see is yet again the same fights that I've been playing in since Budokai 1. It should not be this hard to make a decent game with new content.

[Zenkashuu]

How do you know if they are lazy? How can anyone know if they are not trying?

You talk about something different, what's the huge difference between Storm series? Sure they're beautiful games with great animations but gameplay wise, which in my opinion is mediocre, you'll see little changes. Free roam was pointless and too limited.

In DBZ's case I think we've two problems. One is its fanbase. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's split in so many parts (Budokai fans, BT fans, RGP fans, something new etc). They don't have common needs. Other want What-if stories, someother detailed the original one. Huge amount of characters original/what-ifs, character creation. I hope, you understand what I'm trying to say. And the second one is budget, as you know (?) DBZ games get less budget than Naruto ones, so don't expect to get the same things. Developers are trying to make games to please the majority with low budget (blame Namco or Toei) but in the recent years they've failed.

[DarkPrince_92]

How do you know if they are lazy? How can anyone know if they are not trying?

You talk about something different, what's the huge difference between Storm series? Sure they're beautiful games with great animations but gameplay wise, which in my opinion is mediocre, you'll see little changes. Free roam was pointless and too limited.

In DBZ's case I think we've two problems. One is its fanbase. I said it before and I'll say it again, it's split in so many parts (Budokai fans, BT fans, RGP fans, something new etc). They don't have common needs. Other want What-if stories, someother detailed the original one. Huge amount of characters original/what-ifs, character creation. I hope, you understand what I'm trying to say. And the second one is budget, as you know (?) DBZ games get less budget than Naruto ones, so don't expect to get the same things. Developers are trying to make games to please the majority with low budget (blame Namco or Toei) but in the recent years they've failed.

This pretty much sums up how I've been looking at it. The Naruto games had the same formula with little changes here and there, but are still successful with a loyal fanbase. There still complaints here and there, like mine would be single online ranked fights or including the entirety of the Sound 5 ninja. But never anything major. Also the gameplay isn't too complex, and people are fine with that. But I do say, the CEO of CC2 Hiroshi Matsuyama seems to have more of a passion about the Naruto games than any DBZ developer I've seen. That could only help these Naruto games stay successful.

Dimps have always did a good job emulating the speed, intensity and aesthetics of DBZ. Nice character models, anime color scheme, vibrant backgrounds (for the most part). I'm sure they are far from being "lazy".

[TheGmGoken]

The free roaming and gameplay in EVERY Strom game sucks compared to the original Ultimate Ninja series. They got lazy too. Everything was better on Ultimate Ninja 2, 3, and 4. The specials looked cooler, more specials, better support system, badass story. You think I'm impressed with original stories? Naruto Revolution 2 did that already. Ultimate Ninja series(original 4. Not storm) had original stories within the real stories. After the story was beaten you got more original stories. Not side stories. Full stories better than anime filler. Naruto Chronicals 2 had a great gameplay and...ORIGINAL story. I ain't impressed with the new storm having a new story. Especially when the gameplay is shit.


Creating a original story with Db(a finished series) is harder than with other anime(or...movies). You got to include the important characters. You have to place it a good place. We can't have time traveling stories all the time. We can't use Trunks future all the time. I liked mixing side plots later turnt to full stories when stuff like this happen. Ultimate Tenkaichi had different fighting for giants but its hit or miss. Though Naruto games do have it for regular 1v1. I do want an open world game though. Would shake things up.

[Bullza]

How do you know if they are lazy? How can anyone know if they are not trying?

Because I've played the games and it's very apparent from the recycling of character models, stages, moves and even the music to the lack of effort made to make each game stand out by giving them something unique.

You talk about something different, what's the huge difference between Storm series?

There was a world of difference even between Storm 1 and 2. The addition of online, boss battles, bonus missions and the sheer scope of what could be done outside of missions and the detail in which the story was told. Storm 3 took this detail much farther and included mob battles. The amount of characters grew from 25 to 81 in the space of two games.

This upcoming game I already explained had two new original storylines, the roster is increasing to 118, four player Ninja Tournament etc

Free roam was pointless and too limited.

It wasn't pointless because it added hours to the game, stunted repetition and allowed for original mini storylines.

DBZ games get less budget than Naruto ones, so don't expect to get the same things. Developers are trying to make games to please the majority with low budget (blame Namco or Toei) but in the recent years they've failed.

They get less budget because the games sell less each game. They sell less each game because people are tired of doing the same thing over and over again.

[Bullza]

Dimps have always did a good job emulating the speed, intensity and aesthetics of DBZ. Nice character models, anime color scheme, vibrant backgrounds (for the most part). I'm sure they are far from being "lazy".

Dimps is fine actually. There was a big difference between the Budokai games on PS2 and while Burst Limit went backwards in a lot of ways it at least didn't recycle content, it felt like a proper fighting game and some good effort was put in with the graphics and the cutscenes.

It was a crying shame that they didn't continue making DBZ games following that by making a Burst Limit 2 that could have combined parts of the previous game in with some of the PS2 games along with covering all the way through to the end of Z.

The PSP games also at least an original story. So at least there's some promise here for this new game.

The free roaming and gameplay in EVERY Strom game sucks compared to the original Ultimate Ninja series. They got lazy too.

The free roaming didn't get lazy it was completely understandable. The first game had a nice village to explore but that was really no good for any future games where the characters travelled outside the village and took in part in fights mostly outside the village. They sacrificed the free roam map of the original for smaller maps that covered far more ground in and around the village.

I ain't impressed with the new storm having a new story.

You don't have to be because that wasn't the point. The point is that they at least have them while DBZ does not. None of the fighting games have told an original story or introduced exclusive characters to make the game be a little bit different from the same old shit. A few of the them have had some what if fights and UT had the crappy Hero Mode story that wasn't worth anything.

Creating a original story with Db(a finished series) is harder than with other anime(or...movies).

It's that incredibly easy that even I could come up with something. It is not that important where the game fits in to the timeline just like it didn't with the other movies, it's just a game. They could have easily have come up with a story like Battle of Gods that took place between Buu and Uub. It doesn't have to be a great story or one on the same level as the show.

Just something different, create a few new characters for the game, a few unique stages that could be on other worlds, 45 minutes of anime footage to tie in the story and it'd sell far better than the few games have. That's just a minimum, if they really wanted to there's no reason why they couldn't come up with something great if they were to get some story ideas and character designs from Toriyama.

[TheGmGoken]

There was a world of difference even between Storm 1 and 2. The addition of online, boss battles, bonus missions and the sheer scope of what could be done outside of missions and the detail in which the story was told. Storm 3 took this detail much farther and included mob battles. The amount of characters grew from 25 to 81 in the space of two games.

This upcoming game I already explained had two new original storylines

All but online was already done in the original Ps2 Ultimate Ninja Games. Read my original post. Basically this stuff already happened on ps2. Why should you be impressed a stronger console is doing it this late. Took them what 5 ps3 and Xbox 360 games? That's being lazy.

The first game had a nice village to explore but that was really no good for any future games where the characters travelled outside the village and took in part in fights mostly outside the village. They sacrificed the free roam map of the original for smaller maps that covered far more ground in and around the village

The ps2 games already had Full on village travels without shortcuts either. Even villages we never went to yet(at the time the manga and anime). We had original areas that's not in anime nor mangs. Hell you could fight in free roam as well. Yup you fought people in free roam not game play fighting.
Strom series has always been lazy. Play the original Ultimate Ninja games on ps2. Storm is terrible

[Xeogran]

Storm 1 to Storm 2 was basically a big downgrade instead of upgrade. Although I still could tolerate it, compared to Storm 3. Lags and features being stolen from you for the sake of some fan-service is not good.

[Bullza]

All but online was already done in the original Ps2 Ultimate Ninja Games.

Now we both know that the boss fights in the PS2 games are nothing in the slightest bit like they are in the new games. The story was not told with the same kind of detail as in Storm 3 at all, in fact you didn't even need to be familiar with the story and you'd understand it perfectly because of how detailed Storm 3 was. Were there mob battles in the Ultimate Ninja games?

They also unlike this upcoming game weren't accompanied by 45 minutes of original animated footage.

The ps2 games already had Full on village travels without shortcuts either.

They weren't anywhere near as big or as detailed.

This is sort of besides the point anyway because this is stuff that the Naruto games have now. DBZ has none of these things, no cool boss fights, no environments to explore, no little bonus missions, no original stories, no new characters etc.

Storm is terrible

Even if you think they are terrible they still run circles around any DBZ game to come out in years, possibly ever. They desperately need to take a leaf out of their book because interest is going down the drain.

There is no need for them to not have these things.

[TheGmGoken]

Now we both know that the boss fights in the PS2 games are nothing in the slightest bit like they are in the new games. The story was not told with the same kind of detail as in Storm 3 at all, in fact you didn't even need to be familiar with the story and you'd understand it perfectly because of how detailed Storm 3 was. Were there mob battles in the Ultimate Ninja games?

They also unlike this upcoming game weren't accompanied by 45 minutes of original animated footage.

Yup. In fact the boss fight was better. Play Chronicals 2. The boss fights were superior. Ultimate Ninja 2- 4 was told in much better details than Storm 3. Have you played the original Ultimate Ninja series? Yes there was Mob battles.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GGwvC06w01s you see this. Ultimate Ninja already had this in ultimate ninja 4. Ninja Revolution had original footage.

They weren't anywhere near as big or as detailed

They weren't close to same size. Of course. Ultimate Ninja ps2 series had BIGGER and more details. Hell Ultimate 4 had much more size than any of the Storm games.

w. DBZ has none of these things, no cool boss fights, no environments to explore, no little bonus missions, no original stories, no new characters etc.

They lack motivation. Yes people the sales drop. But they still got a decent fan base that will always buy the games. Hell even Db Kinect sold money.

Even if you think they are terrible they still run circles around any DBZ game to come out in years, possibly ever.

Besides BoZ and Ultimate Blast. I prefer all ps3 Dbz game over Naruto.

[Bullza]

Yup. In fact the boss fight was better.

They were in absolutely no way better, the fights were no different from regular enemies gameplay wise. They were nothing alike at all, Storm 1 introduced the QTE cinematic boss fights and Storm 2 took them further by having them against non giant enemies.

Ultimate Ninja 2- 4 was told in much better details than Storm 3.

No they weren't, literally half of the campaign mode is cutscenes explaining the story in detail, more often than not word for word the same as the manga. Unlike the previous games you'd be able to follow the story perfectly without even seeing the show first.

Play Chronicals 2. Ninja Revolution had original footage.

You said the Ultimate Ninja games though. The developers behind those games arn't the same as the one's who do the Storm games.

They lack motivation. Yes people the sales drop. But they still got a decent fan base that will always buy the games. Hell even Db Kinect sold money.

Then they should stop making them instead of churning out the same thing all the time. Spike did well with the Tenkaichi games on PS2 but everything after that was just a huge step back and just lazy. At least Dimps look like they put in effort but for some reason we got stuck with the lazy bunch.

Get some new team behind it for once. Then maybe sales will increase. UT opened to good numbers because it appeared to be different but then quickly dropped off because it was actually even worse.

I prefer all ps3 Dbz game over Naruto.

How? The only one that resembled anything of quality was Burst Limit and that was limited by roster and story content. Ir should have covered all of Z, there was no reason for it not too.

The Naruto games have better graphics, gameplay, variety, characters (?), stages, boss battles and it has free roam, original storylines, things to collect, places to go etc. If you have BT3 then there's no need to even get the Raging Blast games.

[TheGmGoken]

They were in absolutely no way better, the fights were no different from regular enemies gameplay wise. They were nothing alike at all, Storm 1 introduced the QTE cinematic boss fights and Storm 2 took them further by having them against non giant enemies.
No they weren't, literally half of the campaign mode is cutscenes explaining the story in detail, more often than not word for word the same as the manga. Unlike the previous games you'd be able to follow the story perfectly without even seeing the show first

You never played ultimate Ninja 4 story mode have you?

Then they should stop making them instead of churning out the same thing all the time. Spike did well with the Tenkaichi games on PS2 but everything after that was just a huge step back and just lazy. At least Dimps look like they put in effort but for some reason we got stuck with the lazy bunch

Why? Easy money. People will buy the game. You might use hardcore fans.

How? The only one that resembled anything of quality was Burst Limit and that was limited by roster and story content. Ir should have covered all of Z, there was no reason for it not too.

The Naruto games have better graphics, gameplay, variety, characters (?), stages, boss battles and it has free roam, original storylines, things to collect, places to go etc. If you have BT3 then there's no need to even get the Raging Blast games.

Dimps overrated. Raging Blast 2 was awesome for me. Storm series was a HUGE downgrade to me from ultimate ninja. Worst than Tenkaichi to Ragin blast. Idgaf bout graphics. Gameplay for storm are inferior. The stages were better on Ps2. Ps3 dbz games had great stages.

[Bullza]

You never played ultimate Ninja 4 story mode have you?

Post a link to a youtube video of a boss fight like those from the newer Storm games.

Explain to me how a Ultimate Ninja 4's story mode was as detailed as Storm 3's when it's story was told through a minute of two's worth of anime slides that were dubbed over while Storm 3's story was told through well over 6 hours worth of cutscenes.

Why? Easy money. People will buy the game. You might use hardcore fans.

So it's ok for them to shovel out terrible games each year because they'll get a quick buck off the hardcore fans? I'm sure glad other developers don't feel that way.

Dimps overrated.

Not compared to Spike their not, they run circles around them and at least try to offer something new rather than recycle the same material game after games. I was playing Raging Blast and was still seeing the exact same maps as the one's from Budokai Tenkaichi 2 and I don't mean that they're using Namek again, I mean the exact same Namek arena.

That's pathetic when that game came out like 3 years after?

Worst than Tenkaichi to Ragin blast.

No they weren't lol, Raging Blast was a travesty.

Idgaf bout graphics.

Sure you don't. Graphics aren't anything but when games like Raging Blast on the PS3 in 2009 are still using the exact same character models from Tenkaichi in 2005 then that's just laughable.

Gameplay for storm are inferior.

They aren't at all but wasn't it UT that's gameplay was 70% QTE's because it was practically just a game of rock, paper, scissors? Such great gameplay that was.

[TheGmGoken]

Explain to me how a Ultimate Ninja 4's story mode was as detailed as Storm 3's when it's story was told through a minute of two's worth of anime slides that were dubbed over while Storm 3's story was told through well over 6 hours worth of cutscenes.

They use in game stuff like the anime. Similar to Budokai 1. Are you saying you want a Ultimate Tenkaichi story mode. That had cutscenes and had paragraphs worth of info.

So it's ok for them to shovel out terrible games each year because they'll get a quick buck off the hardcore fans? I'm sure glad other developers don't feel that way.

Storm doing the same. You expect improvement from ps2 era. Storm is crap compared to Ultimate Ninja.Also look at mainstream games like Call of Duty.

Not compared to Spike their not, they run circles around them and at least try to offer something new rather than recycle the same material game after games. I was playing Raging Blast and was still seeing the exact same maps as the one's from Budokai Tenkaichi 2 and I don't mean that they're using Namek again, I mean the exact same Namek arena

Re using an area that's already great is bad? Don't fix what's broken. Chaospuniment has great words for Dimps.
""Can't even see that Budokai fights nothing like a DB Game should. Or that they're pretty mediocre when you get to the core. It's just

"Do the same combo over again if your character happens to be able to cancel, f*** Gero, don't give side character's ultimates etc."

No they weren't lol, Raging Blast was a travesty.

Opinion. The storm series was a major down gradegrade

Sure you don't

Was that sarcasm. There no need for that.

Raging Blast on the PS3 in 2009 are still using the exact same character models from Tenkaichi in 2005 then that's just laughable.

Raging blast got arguable the best graphics for most dbz games. Many would agree here

They aren't at all but wasn't it UT that's gameplay was 70% QTE's because it was practically just a game of rock, paper, scissors? Such great gameplay that was.

I didn't say UT was better. UT is a good simulation and great for fanfics but bad gameplay I agree.

[NitroEX]

I hear you Bullza. I've been feeling just as frustrated ever since the first Raging blast arrived in place of a Burst Limit sequel and destroyed any hope I had in the last gen DBZ games. They got noticeably worse after Raging Blast 2 which was another let down because just as the RB games were starting to improve (though at a snail's pace) they decided to cut the legs from under it and start fresh AGAIN...

I'm remaining hopeful for the new Xenoverse game but what they did to the franchise last gen was unforgivable. I feel like an American development team would treat a Dragonball Z game with more respect, put in more attention to detail and would actually listen to fans which is something I feel like Japanese devs just don't do, or at least not with their western audience. Maybe the Japanese gamers are content with bullshit like that but it doesn't fly in the rest of the world and they need to realise it.

[DonieZ]

The devs are lazy and have no motivation

Oh reaaly, so I'm guessing some of you people know someone who works at NB/Spike and is feeding you this information about their colleagues...? No, I didn't think so. Lazy, I think not. Spike are well known for their ability to create decent sized full 3D arenas, a range of game modes and at least 50 ducking characters a game each with their own beam and cutscene supers, transformations blabla A YEAR!! What happened from RB to RB 2? At least ANOTHER 50 (?) characters, revised graphics and models, some oddly uninspired and tedious game mode, a 30 min anime short... All in one year. And this isn't even a full year either, were talking roughly 6/7 months to get models and gameplay down and up and running, as well as probably a lot of the main mode completed, so that they are able to showcase something to advertise at E3, Japan expo, or whatever other event they regular. From then on it's providing finishing touches, testing features and getting all aspects of the modes and gameplay and characters completed. This is no simple task, Spike, contrary to many a belief, are actually very well resourced; NB isn't a small publisher. Okay so some of you might say that with RB2 they already had the foundations down, perhaps so but even then they still completely altered the graphics and models, and mostly important added X characters! You guys think creating characters is so easy, that a roster of forty is tiny, but in truth it isn't. At least a well made one isn't. And certainly not in 8ish months.

You guys have the wrong idea. Spike aren't lazy, and they don't evidently lack motivation. What do they lack? Time. What DB developers in generally lack, have always lacked and will always lack is time. Every DB game for a good many years (and at least following the first instalment) have been created within a year of it's prequel, and this I'm sorry to say unthoughtful DB fans, is the main hindrance of DB developers; and in particular our friend Spike.

Although our friend Spike has one other problem. They lack talent. It might be unfair to say this seeing as the time restrictions created by Toei clearly are the determining factor, but even so, Spike are just a talentless studio. I mean you can predict it from their history, they've never made fighting games before during their existence, DB is most definitely their highlight. Spike are lazy, they have no motivation, they don't care to give us a good, unique DB experience? No no, that isn't it. Spike truly believe from the bottom of their hearts that their ideas are decent and that what they do will be appreciated. The problem is they suck. And it has taken NB only now to realise this, how do I know? Because the first time ever in DB gaming history is a developer being given a substantial time to develop a DB game, and who has been trusted with the job? DIMPS. And what makes it even clearer? The fact that NB are trusting DIMPS to create the first 2/3 year DB game in a 3D open world format. They are literally giving Spikes' job to Dimps, which IMO is a huge criticism.

You mustn't get the wrong idea, I am not a fan of Spike and in particular hate RB 2 with near a passion. I just don't like seeing invalid statements such as X developer is lazy when in truth it is all they're able to do as a result of time and ability/talent. I guess it is unfortunate since this means we will not get the chance to see what Spike can truly do given they had a comfortable development period. Personally though, I have no faith in Spike and am very thankful that NB are entrusting DIMPS with this project. Keep a look out for this project fellow fans, for fans of Spike will for the first time see how terrible their 3D games are.

[Bullza]

They use in game stuff like the anime. Similar to Budokai 1.

Yeah ok I looked on youtube and it's there but there's only like 10 minutes worth?

Are you saying you want a Ultimate Tenkaichi story mode. That had cutscenes and had paragraphs worth of info.

I want something done to the quality of Storm 3. UT was a vast improvement over the Raging Blast games but it still just looked cheaply made and things were glossed over.

What they really need to do is do something like what the upcoming Revolution is going to do by having a new original story accompanied by 45 minutes worth of original animated footage. That should not be that hard to do, if it can be done for Naruto it can be done for DBZ.

Storm doing the same.

Those games are at least good though and they make improvements and add new things all the time. Like I said this one will be having 4 player matches plus new original storylines, new characters designed by author, exclusive animated content and probably more.

DBZ though adds some things but while taking away other things. Tenkaichi 3 has more characters than any of the games now, Raging Blast had a huge amount less and they took out GT characters, Raging Blast 2 built on from it but then Ultimate Tenkaichi, keyword ULTIMATE had not only less characters than BT3 but less characters than the Raging Blast games it seemed.

Battle of Z maybe had even less? The story was less detailed, the ability to fly around the world, create a character I think that was all gone?

Re using an area that's already great is bad?

Yes actually it is, it's lazy and that's no excuse when they could have simply have made a NEW great arena instead.

Raging blast got arguable the best graphics for most dbz games. Many would agree here

Who on earth would agree with that? Burst Limit's graphics run circles around any of Spike's games.



Vs



None of them come close to the graphics of Burst Limit.

[Bullza]

Lazy, I think not. Spike are well known for their ability to create decent sized full 3D arenas

Which they recycle for several games afterwards. It's not just that which is annoying because I'm seeing the same maps in this new Naruto game that was in the 2008 game but in Naruto they bring all the previous maps back then create some new ones that's why they've come from 8 stages in Storm 1 to 33 I Storm 3.

If they're going to recycle maps then why can't they include Roshis Island, Kamis lookout, Space and as well?

at least 50 ducking characters a game each with their own beam and cutscene supers

Which again are mostly recycled character models and movesets, why not recycle them all if they're going to do that? Why does Ultimate Tenkaichi have far less characters than Tenkaichi 3 which came out 4 years before?

What do they lack? Time.

Then why can't they make time rather than rushing out quick cash grabs? The Storm games had a two year gap between them (Generations was a placeholder). Why do they have to make one game a year? Surely if they spent more time to make a better game it'd sell more in the long run.

They did a good job with the games on PS2 a decade ago, each game was better than the last and had far more content. Raging Blast and it's sequel were inferior games altogether despite being on the supposed Ultimate Tenkaichi was worse yet.

I hope that Spike never ever make another DBZ game again.

[TheGmGoken]

That's Rb2 not Rb1. RB2 looks like shiny

Yes actually it is, it's lazy and that's no excuse when they could have simply have made a NEW great arena instead

Don't fix what's not broken

Those games are at least good though and they make improvements and add new things all the time. Like I said this one will be having 4 player matches plus new original storylines, new characters designed by author, exclusive animated content and probably more

Storm series sucks ass. That's an opinion. I'm not impress with original stories. Already seen in with the Ps2 games.

Yeah ok I looked on youtube and it's there but there's only like 10 minutes worth

There's more. Which game you're looking at.

I want something done to the quality of Storm 3

Why not the the quality of the Ultimate Ninja series? Storm quality is shitty

[Zenkashuu]

I can't keep up with nosense. Someone is blind fanboy and all know who...

From now on I won't waste my time to convince him to anything.

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