Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
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Cetra
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Cetra » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:45 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:The anime has Super Boo killing women. We see them die.

The manga got an OLD woman getting shot. That was a major panel BTW.
Would you show me the scene with Super Boo? And you can't really claim getting shot being as brutal as getting ripped into pieces or getting your head blown off. I already told you, people of all kind die. And you should know that I already said that. I am still talking about it not being the same level of shown brutality when living people were killed. All totally brutal killing scenes were for men and monsters or animals.
Cetra wrote:... Maybe I make a full post of "cruel scenes when characters have been killed (which is exactly what I said)" and make a direct comparison. Then you will have a non-shown Zanga (who otgher than all her comrades does not get ripped in pieces) and C18 who just got caught in a blast, a tiny-tiny picture of a women, that was dead already, in the Boo Saga, Chi Chi who is just an egg, and Videl who has not even been killed vs Gero getting killed, 16, Guldo, Cell, the random driver who loses his head, Babidi who loses his head, Cell Jrs., Saibaiman, Dinosaurs and Piccolo's henchmen getting destroyed, a Namekian getting his neck broken as well as another who who has been killed pretty much the same way by the Cyborgs/Androids, Freezer vs Alternate Trunks, Cell absorbs a man, the criminal who gets destroyed by Boo, Piccolo getting punched a hole through his chest, et cetera. See the difference and then think about your "lol"-smiley again. Oh, and it was the same with children as I have mentioned that even the main characters, who do not count the same as they are not defenseless completely (but many people are in Dragon Ball), have never been killed this enormous way or shown to be killed with that kind of enormous demonstration. Kuririn was shown to be dead. Chaozu was killed by a "shock" as well as Dende with a very unspectacular Death scene; then of course there is in the same panel, that already dead kid from the family killed by Babidi which was never shown actively to be killed and only a got a small panel plus didn't get attention as he didn't even get a face drawn and other than that you just see the kid characters fighting and getting beaten then. Also a difference.
...
Last edited by Cetra on Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:48 pm

Being shot in the head as a old NORMAL HUMAN isn't brutal!?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Cetra » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:50 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Being shot in the head as a old NORMAL HUMAN isn't brutal!?
>_> Being killed is always brutal. But what is more brutal? Being ripped into pieces or getting shot? Really, next time I'm gonna use my scanner for comparison.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Scarz » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:54 pm

The panel wasn't even that big of a deal when it comes to brutality. It could've been a hell of a lot worse (i.e. eyeballs, brain matter, etc).

Cetra, I see where you're coming from and I've read your posts, but I just can't side with you here. Especially when you said that Toriyama probably had the same view point. Honestly, I think if more women were at the center focus in the manga, we would've seen them die just as badly as the males.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Cetra » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:58 pm

Scarz wrote: Cetra, I see where you're coming from and I've read your posts, but I just can't side with you here. Especially when you said that Toriyama probably had the same view point. Honestly, I think if more women were at the center focus in the manga, we would've seen them die just as badly as the males.
He had 11 years of opportunity. And we have to work with what we have. Also people thinking "women and children first" is nothing rare. What many people here do not get is not that I want men to die but simply that many people feel different when they see something like that with a man or a woman or children. And that is far from being something bad because I still want no one living to die. I mean, I even get sure that the insects I see survive so me not knowing the value of life is not the problem.

I am a fan of Detective Conan. Men and Women die equally bad there (one case shows a women in pieces e.g.). It is equally horrible, that is not the point as I agree with you that a lifeform being dead is equally bad. But that was chosen to be shown like that by the author from the very beginning. In Dragon Ball, as possible as it can be compared, it is no the case.
Last edited by Cetra on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by rereboy » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:00 pm

Cetra wrote:
What I find incredible is that you are not able to read all posts as those things have already been covered and I doubt that you are able to understand the drawn detail of 42 vol. if you cannot understand a few posts, sorry. Akira Toriyama clearly had the same way of thinking (men got much attention when they where shown as still living and being killed brutally) and again you failed to show an actual killing scene and only showed the scene were people were already dead and that in a panel that is very tiny in the book with not even a face drawn for the child. Think what you want about "it is equally bad" but that does not change the fact that we feel different about different people in general. A lifeform ending is always equally bad, that is true but showing it with different people makes people feel different. What is incredible is that you don't get that it is like this and many people very well are cautious about this. So either you read the whole conversation where all that comparison is covered or you just leave it be, thank you.
That's where you are wrong. See, I didn't argue that its not worse when certain kinds of people die or are killed, I just disagreed that its automatically worse when its a woman just because of her sex.

You, on the other hand, LITERALLY went on a posting rampage just because the saiyan killed was a woman.

You don't even know anything about her, you don't know if she was a good person or not, if she deserved to die or not, you have no idea what kind of personality she even had besides the brief exposition we had of her.

In fact, due purely to the fact that she was a pure-blood saiyan, in all likelihood she deserved her death much more than any Namek or any innocent person that was killed in a violent way in the manga.

But, instead of actually realizing this, you see that saiyan, that you don't even know, getting killed in a way not unlike what we see in the manga, and you suddenly are all disturbed by it. And why? What is different? Because she is a woman. Only, solely, because of that.

And even now, instead of realizing your own discrimination of treatment purely based on sex, you are trying to argue that Akira Toriyama thought exactly like you, because, obviously, no one better to know how he thinks than you. Sure, dude, whatever... I'm out of this conversation, clearly not worth it.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:02 pm

Cetra wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Being shot in the head as a old NORMAL HUMAN isn't brutal!?
>_> Being killed is always brutal. But what is more brutal? Being ripped into pieces or getting shot? Really, next time I'm gonna use my scanner for comparison.
Toriyama don't know how to write females. I think he said something like that or they're hard to draw. So no Toriyama didn't have same mindset

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rzF6GEEva-s - Boo killing everything

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:05 pm

Fionordequester wrote:Why is it different when a woman's head is popped off? Because women deserve to be protected, and that's pretty much the attitude that many males (including myself) want to adopt, because we hope that, by adopting that attitude, we can become the great husbands and fathers that we want to be.

Plus, you know, without women, the human race would die. I mean, you kill one guy...then it's just that one guy who's dead. But you kill one woman...then it's not just one person you've killed. You've also killed every single possible boy and girl that that woman may have given birth to if you hadn't killed her, so to me, it only makes sense that males, as a race, are going to be protective of their women.
Without men, the human race would die too. I mean women need sperm to create children and men are the only ones with sprem. I still think the whole issue with Vegeta blowing off a women's head off is stupid. You could say that Saiyans are not even humans, so it should not even matter.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Cetra » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:08 pm

TheGmGoken wrote: Toriyama don't know how to write females. I think he said something like that or they're hard to draw. So no Toriyama didn't have same mindset

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rzF6GEEva-s - Boo killing everything
How to write the story of a female has nothing to do with thinking different about females or children in terms of not showing how the are brutally killed as they did it with men. In fact that he had problems shows that he already knew men and women are not the same. And I even expected you to show me something else now but you just showed me another blast attack. No one was blown into pieces or get his head blown off. Getting shot or a blast is definitely not even close to being that brutal. I really don't see why it is troublesome to see that we are not getting those scenes where women and children die like that. That poor women died like that by Babidi. But it was never shown. For men it was never hesitated. And I guess the scenes per sé don't need to be mentioned again as I have posted them in multiple comments of mine.

Again, tell me I shall show you some scenes in comparison and I will do so.
Tzigi wrote: And the argument you fail to understand is that in DB females in prominent places (especially on the battlelines) are almost non-existent. So they don't get killed brutally - simply because the male characters are more prominent. The Buu-saga example with the girl torn in half proves that Toriyama didn't flinch from showing brutally dismembered females - when he remembered to include them. Also it is in no way surprising - especially coming from someone who drew a comic about a woman getting raped and turning into a prostitute (by the way this also disproves all your sexist delusions about Toriyama being all so pro-family/against hurting women).
No, I know where females are in Dragon Ball. I know these things which is the very reason why I can say that. And it proves nothing what you use as an example as you fail as much as the others to give another example about brutality since you also only mentioned the already dead person that was never shown to be killed while Akira Toriyama had no problem to do that with others. That you call that "sexist delusions" what many people really understand and think of as good when it comes to being protective (while still not wanting anyone to die) automatically disqualifies you for any further communication with me. Dragon Ball is not the featured comic you use as an example (especially not if we think about people changing and this kind of thinking very well is possible even after writing Dragon Ball, one has nothing to do with the other, not that I support that, btw. it still is not the same), by the way so while the author might be the same it does not change the fact that Dragon Ball itself does not work this way. You probably didn't even read my example about Detective Conan which would have proven that it comes to "what the author decides in certain story to show". So please leave your "sexist" stuff where it needs to be and don't call people who do something that many other people find very reasonable such as I already even said, it is also bad if men die. 50% of children are men, too by the way so you fail to understand the concept of calling others sexist. You just take one general view instead of using the exact context which is needed to be understood. There were multiple situations when women were included in violent scenes and they have never been the target of the most brutal killing scenes at all. There is nothing not to understand. There was the chance and it has not been used so Dragon Ball itself was chosen to be told and shown to the audience like this, no matter which other comics exist.
Last edited by Cetra on Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Super Vegetto » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:11 pm

Scarz wrote:Let's start placing bets on who the person be talking to Vegeta could be...

I'm going with "original unseen character".
Maybe Broly ? I mean he's the only one that can stand a chance with LSSJ form...

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:12 pm

He had problems because he has hard time drawing girls. My manga artist has the same issue. Hence why I don't write the girls in to certain places to make his work eaiser

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Scarz » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:34 pm

Super Vegetto wrote:
Scarz wrote:Let's start placing bets on who the person be talking to Vegeta could be...

I'm going with "original unseen character".
Maybe Broly ? I mean he's the only one that can stand a chance with LSSJ form...
I was thinking that too, but the "well, well Vegeta" line seems a little out of character for him. But then again, it's a different timeline so he could have a different personality.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:35 pm

Scarz wrote:
Super Vegetto wrote:
Scarz wrote:Let's start placing bets on who the person be talking to Vegeta could be...

I'm going with "original unseen character".
Maybe Broly ? I mean he's the only one that can stand a chance with LSSJ form...
I was thinking that too, but the "well, well Vegeta" line seems a little out of character for him. But then again, it's a different timeline so he could have a different personality.
Maybe Paragus with Broly hulking out behind him?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Tzigi » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:37 pm

Cetra wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote: Toriyama don't know how to write females. I think he said something like that or they're hard to draw. So no Toriyama didn't have same mindset
How to write the story of a female has nothing to do with thinking different about females or children in terms of not showing how the are brutally killed as they did it with men.
I think that this is the place where you fail to understand the other perspective. So I'll try to explain it in an easier way: in the world of DB there are human people (like Bulma, her father, Upa, Yamcha and so on) and non-human people (the King is a prime example). The main characters of this franchise are human (or human-looking - the difference between human and Saiyan is very minor when it comes to their looks) - and it's only natural because the readers prefer characters similar to them (and, although it's debatable, it is easier to draw humans then animals simply because we're human and an artist can always use him/herself as a reference).
We don't get many (actually on the top of my head I can't think about even a single one but maybe there are some) scenes with non-human people dying. And I think that it isn't because Toriyama (either consciously on unconsciously) wanted to spare his readers the sight of animals (and non-human people in DB are animals) being murdered. They simply didn't feature prominently enough in the story to be shown.

And the argument you fail to understand is that in DB females in prominent places (especially on the battlelines) are almost non-existent. So they don't get killed brutally - simply because the male characters are more prominent. The Buu-saga example with the girl torn in half proves that Toriyama didn't flinch from showing brutally dismembered females - when he remembered to include them. Also it is in no way surprising - especially coming from someone who drew a comic about a woman getting raped and turning into a prostitute (by the way this also disproves all your sexist delusions about Toriyama being all so pro-family/against hurting women).

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:44 pm

I'm reading through this fight with that song from YGOTAS playing in my head. The one that Melvin sings when he's blowing up robots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEEDMahLnqQ#t=102

Meep meep.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kaboom » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:45 pm

A character in a fictional work had their head abruptly exploded to demonstrate the brutal and uncaring nature of the person doing the head-exploding. The fact that it was a cute-looking female character only serves to further stress that point.

That is all that's at work here, and that's all it needs to be. I have to ask that if we can't leave it at that and discussion of the material is just going to lead to arguments, then we should just drop it and move on. It is what it is in the comic, and it happened for a narrative reason, so let's just let it serve its purpose and move on.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:55 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:Isn't his dad the only one with gloves
He already killed him in the previous page :twisted:

This Kakarot is hilarious :lol:

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FrogTrigger » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:49 pm

Marco Polo wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:Isn't his dad the only one with gloves
He already killed him in the previous page :twisted:

This Kakarot is hilarious :lol:
Lol he's pretty great

I bet Vegeta is about to see Vegeta

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Sshadow5001 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:33 pm

Scarz wrote:Let's start placing bets on who the person be talking to Vegeta could be...

I'm going with "original unseen character".
I bet it's Vegeta talking to himself. Do you think he'd kill himself?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:50 pm

As amusing as it would be to see Vegeta face-to-face with himself, we already had that with two other Universes' Vegeta's earlier in the tournament. I'm hoping for someone else entirely, though I have no idea who.
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