Char. Relationships: Goku and Vegeta vs Naruto and Sasuke

[EXBadguy]

This thread is about comparing their relationships, how one can be better and how one can be annoying. Get what I'm saying?

Anyway, for me, I think the Goku and Vegeta relationship is better than Naruto and Sasuke because it's more tense and straight to the point. Vegeta trained his best to defeat Goku until he gave up. When Vegeta was mind controlled by Babidi, you didn't see Goku cry and scream "Vegeta, all Babidi wants to do is use your brain like a transplant. COME BAAACK TO UUUUS!" No, they just fight, and don't put too much emotion in it, cuz Goku is a man. Even Trunks and Goten handled betrayal better than Naruto did.

Now, as for the Naruto and Sasuke relationship, it was cool in the early part of Part 1, but later in Part 1 and in Shippuden, it's really getting annoying, because Naruto is still crying over Sasuke, even after Sasuke attempted to kill Naruto not once, but twice, Naruto still wants his dick. Now, I know that's a Naruto stereotype, but it has gotten annoying to the point where people are gonna make fun of it. I excused it in their Part 1 fight and their first fight in Shippuden, but in the Kage Summit arc, I'd expect Naruto to grow the eff up and just follow the orders to kill Sasuke or not put too many emotions in it, and NO TALK AND FLASHBACK NO JUTSU!!

[Valerius Dover]

I don't know if a fair comparison can be made before Naruto has actually finished, but I don't know the first thing about the latter so don't take my word for it.

[Vijay]

No offence, but comparing Naruto/Sasuke relationship to Goku/Vegeta's is like comparing Brazil prostitutes to Mother Theresa.

The Rivalry-turned-Friendship portrayed in Goku/Vegeta is on Godly level to be compared to Naruto/Sasuke's Rival-turned-Friend-turned-Gayish obsession.

Goku never abandoned anyone to EARN Vegeta's friendship. Just as Goku admires Vegeta's intelligence, Vegeta acknowedges Goku's constant breakthrough in Power Level.

[B]

I don't really think of characters in pairs. Especially something like Goku and Vegeta. The story and fans sort of insist that there is something there, but it's all pretty one-sided when you look at the characters' actions. Vegeta is annoyingly proud of his heritage and Goku just could not care less. Vegeta is oblivious to the level that Goku does not care, which results in Vegeta getting angry, which then results in me being bored with him and his whining.

God knows how Naruto and Sasuke have evolved since I dropped that series. It was vaguely interesting for a while, I suppose. Sasuke's insistence that the Leaf Village still needed to be destroyed even after learning a dozen truths about a dozen things was a good example of a self-involved, oblivious idiot. I like the idea that everything is so convoluted that both characters(children caught up in magic ninja wizard wars) kind of gave up making sense of it and just did whatever felt right instinctively. For Sasuke, that is revenge, and for Naruto, it's rebuilding Team 7 and re-recruiting Sasuke.

So... I guess Naruto and Sasuke is "better" because it actually feels like a relationship with back-and-forth.

[TheGmGoken]

Naruto and Sasuke. I'm a proud Naruto fan(I prefer Db and Z). Goku and Vegeta seemed one sided until Yo Son Goku and BoG. Naruto and Sasuke have a special bond. Yes he tried to kill Naruto . But didn't Vegeta do the same. Hell Majin Vegeta did worst IMO than Sasuke when he left. We see more interaction between the two.

Spoiler:

Besides Team 7 back. Sasuke is good now.

[Retan]

Is it one sided becuase Vegeta always ends up standing, while Goku's face winds up in the dirt, if so I agree!

[Luso Saiyan]

Just not comparable. Different characters, different motivations, different plot.

[TheGmGoken]

Just not comparable. Different characters, different motivations, different plot.

Apple and oranges are both fruit and thus compare-able. I think its fair to compare character relations.

[White Oni]

"Spend most of your life ruled by another watch your race dwindle to a hand full then tell me what matters more to you than your own strength I have in me the blood of a saiya-jin prince he is nothing but a joke yet I had to watch him surpass me in strength my destiny thrown to the wayside. He has even saved my life as if I were a helpless child he has stolen my honour and his debts must be paid" - Vegeta

Yeah...

There's no competition, what so ever.

It's true that goku paid little mind to vegeta, making their "rivalry" quite one sides, but what did exist of the rivalry, one sided or not, was so powerful that it nearly single handedly rose a character that wasn't even present in DB, to the tops of everyone's favorite list in Dbz, if not all anime.

It actually allowed for some amazing character development for both characters too. It showed us exactly who vegeta was, and who he ended up being after he overcame the rivalry. Even goku sorta developed, by ignoring the rivalry and continuing to become the greatest, because he wants to better himself, not because of some petty rivalry or pride complex, like vegeta, but because that's who he is he is "the best."


Naruto and sasuke's rivalry is forced as hell, completely avoidable and ultimately made pointless. It does develop naruto's character in that it shows just how far he's willing to go for a friend, however this development almost backfires when you realize how brainless and silly the whole endeavor is.
It's funny to note that sasuke ignores the rivalry just as much as goku, if not more, but it's not something that builds character, it's just completely natural and neutral. Of course he's going to ignore the rivalry, he's essentially a chaotic psycho who's mind was ALWAYS narrow sighted. All we learned from his disinterest was that sasuke seems incapable of considering other people, let alone more than 1 life goal, when making decisions.

So in one hand we have one of the most epic rivalries in all anime, one that developed their characters in a positive way.

On the other hand, we have one if the most contrived and moronic rivalries that only seem to develop their characters into brainless, narrow sighted dopes...

Yeah the better if the 2 should be obvious.

[TheGmGoken]

It's funny to note that sasuke ignores the rivalry just as much as goku, if not more,

WHAT!? That's not true at all. I love DBZ more than Naruto but this is just not sure. Before "Yo Son" and BoG the rivalry was so one sided. Sasuke ignored Naruto rivalry? Lemme list all the rival moments. As Sasuke only ignored it when he was a kid.

1. Sasuke and Naruto competing ALL DAY in Tree Climbing
2. Sasuke and Naruto competing in EATING
3. During Haku fight, Sasuke calls Naruto a loser and Naruto takes it heart when Sasuke is hurt.
4. The Chunnin exams. Naruto tells Sasuke "You're the one I want to fight the most". Sasuke replies to this during the Final rounds. "Did you win? Good. Because I want to fight you the most".
5. The fight at the hospital. Both brag about how much they wanted to fight each other and prove that they're better. Naruto even told Sakura to butt out as it's between him and Sasuke. Sasuke was obviously pissed that Naruto had a stronger move.
6. The whole fight at the Final Valley was filled with their feeling for each other. How much they've become rivals and friends. "Best" friends even(This could all be picked out and made into different points. Far more than 6)

That's just Part 1. I'll just say one from a recent chapter in Part 2. Sasuke saves Naruto saying "If anyone going to beat you it's me".

Now explain. How did Sasuke ignore Naruto's rivarly more than Goku did? I going to name some for Goku for Vegeta.

1. Wanting to fight Vegeta again after Saiyan arc(Then bringing it up again when training on Ship).
2. Goku and Vegeta brief rival moment during Yo Son
3. Goku and Vegeta stealing food.
4. Goku tells Vegeta he was a strong SSJ.

Notice after point 1 the other moments was made AFTER the original manga ended.

because he wants to better himself, not because of some petty rivalry or pride complex, like vegeta, but because that's who he is he is "the best."

Goku been "Bettering" himself since Dragonball. Vegeta played NO ROLE in that.

[White Oni]

My bad, you're right, sasuke didn't ignore naruto as much as goku did vegeta.

However my points still stands, as does the verdict.

Also, relax, I never said that his rivalry with vegeta was the sole reason for goku being the way he is, that would be silly, he's been that way since the very beginning. I'm just saying that the rivalry highlights that fact and builds the foil between him and vegeta. It also gives a valid, preesrablished reason why goku ignores the rivalry so much.

But talking about his is pointless as even if goku and vegeta's rivalry was even a decent one, it would be superior, as naruto and sasuke's fails in a vacuum, without the need for comparison.

Also, FYI, please don't bother saying "I love ____ but ____." It just makes you look like you're so lacking in confidence that you need to lean on pseudo-authority to back up your arguments.

[TheGmGoken]

My bad, you're right, sasuke didn't ignore naruto as much as goku did vegeta.

However my points still stands, as does the verdict.

Also, relax, I never said that his rivalry with vegeta was the sole reason for goku being the way he is, that would be silly, he's been that way since the very beginning. I'm just saying that the rivalry highlights that fact and builds the foil between him and vegeta. It also gives a valid, preesrablished reason why goku ignores the rivalry so much.

But talking about his is pointless as even if goku and vegeta's rivalry was even a decent one, it would be superior, as naruto and sasuke's fails in a vacuum, without the need for comparison.

Also, FYI, please don't bother saying "I love ____ but ____." It just makes you look like you're so lacking in confidence that you need to lean on pseudo-authority to back up your arguments.

How does Sasuke and Naruto rivalry fails? With the last part of your post. I wasn't lacking confidence.I said that so people don't accuse me of being a Naruto fanboy.

[Luso Saiyan]

Apple and oranges are both fruit and thus compare-able.

Apparently you are not familiar with the idiom. It's a rethorical term to show the unfair comparision of two different things under the same criteria. Yes, they are both fruits, thus the misconception of comparing them as if they were the same thing.

[White Oni]

How does Sasuke and Naruto rivalry fails? With the last part of your post. I wasn't lacking confidence.I said that so people don't accuse me of being a Naruto fanboy.

It completely unnatural, unrelatable, contrived, and ultimately made pointless.

Their interactions are soap opera-ish at best, the motivations that fuel the rivalry are stale, tired and synthetic, the reincarnation destiny bit only made things more unnatural and less interesting, and lastly sasuke's character ruins EVERYTHING. His rebellion is the major driving force of the rivalry, and it's by far one of the most pointless and contrived subjects in anime/manga history.

The only reason people compare it to Goku and Vegeta's rivalry is because of Naruto's popularity and the fact that kishimoto has admitted to, and so obviously does, draw inspiration from Akira Toriyama's work.

[DonZ]

Naruto and Sasuke's relationship was perfect in the first part of Naruto, you know.. when it was a friendship between two kids who understood each other due to their tragic childhood. none else knew how they feel or related to their feelings since they're the only kids who grew up without parents in konoha village. it was an amazing kind of complex relationship and it's one of my favorite things about the original Naruto. and then Shippuden happened... didn't i say before that Kishi fucks up every single amazing thing he have on his manga ? yeah, Naruto and Sasuke's relationship is on top of the list!

Nothing needed to say about Goku and Vegeta's relationship, it's amazing and one of the best things about DBZ. i would like to explain more and get into details about it.. but i'll leave that to you guys here since i'm sure there's someone here going to explain it, since we're on a Dragon Ball forum.

[EXBadguy]

No offence, but comparing Naruto/Sasuke relationship to Goku/Vegeta's is like comparing Brazil prostitutes to Mother Theresa.

OOOOOOOH!!!

Didn't Vegeta do the same. Hell Majin Vegeta did worst IMO than Sasuke when he left. We see more interaction between the two.

Sure, but at least Goku didn't cry and screamed "baby come back!" like Naruto did with Sasuke(of course, that's just a figure of speech. Don't get offended). It may have been one-sided but at least it's straight to the point. If Goku betrays the warriors, Vegeta would just blast his head off, not forcing him to come back or cry "please baby please!"

Yes, I'm going too far, because everytime I think of the Naruto and Sasuke relationship in Shippuden, it makes me more mad.

[TheGmGoken]

Naruto said if Sasuke and him fought. They will both die. Hardly coming back. Sure he wants Sasuke to come back. But so did most of the village.They still did however they realize he has to be punished as he's a ULTRA BAD GUY now. However in the chapters for the past 3 months I think

Spoiler:

Sasuke returns to being good. Sasuke wants to become the leader of the Hidden Leaf. Team 7 kicking ass again. Sasuke a good guy going to return to village

[EXBadguy]

Naruto said if Sasuke and him fought. They will both die. Hardly coming back.

Yeah, but I'm talking about Naruto's "feelings" towards Sasuke. Naruto would still be crying like a little bitch, inside and out. In the Majin Vegeta fight, did you see Goku crying like Naruto did? Nope! He handled it like an adult and the way he talked to Vegeta about the repercussions about Bulma and the other warriors was manly.

Sure he wants Sasuke to come back. But so did most of the village.

That was only in Part 1. In Shippuden, EVERYBODY wanted Sasuke dead, except Naruto, of course.

Sasuke returns to being good. Sasuke wants to become the leader of the Hidden Leaf. Sasuke a good guy going to return to village

BLECH!! It's back and forth with Kishimoto. And Sasuke wants to be Hokage?

I'm glad I dropped the series after Obito's "reason" for world domination, though I stopped liking Shippuden after Pain, though I kept up with it for so long was because of Tobito. Then after the "You let Rin die", I facepalm and said to myself, "So the reason why he summoned Kurama to attack the village, created the Akatsuki, and made Pain destroy Konoha was because of a FUCKING GIRL?!?!"

[TheGmGoken]

Naruto would still be crying like a little bitch, inside and out. In the Majin Vegeta fight, did you see Goku crying like Naruto did? Nope! He handled it like an adult and the way he talked to Vegeta about the repercussions about Bulma and the other warriors was manly.

Goku wasn't. But Vegeta was .

That was only in Part 1. In Shippuden, EVERYBODY wants Sasuke dead, except Naruto, of course.

Not at first. Most of the Gennin from Part 1 agreed that he should be dead but they was heartbroken. But by the Ninja year everyone did hate him.

BLECH!! It's back and forth with Kishimoto. And Sasuke wants to be Hokage?

. He actually gave a very valid reason.

Spoiler:

While insisting that he still desired revenge, Sasuke explained that he must know what the idea of revenge really meant for him to know if it was truly his decision. Intrigued by how much Sasuke has changed, Orochimaru decided to take him to where his questions could be answered. Following the Sannin, their travels took them to Konoha where they briefly sense the volume of Naruto Uzumaki's chakra on the battlefield. Reacting to this as little more than a nuisance, Sasuke tells the group to continue on their journey, which took them to a temple which had fallen into ruin on the outskirts of the village. Retrieving a mask from there, Sasuke followed Orochimaru through the village where he stopped, moved to a high vantage point and surveyed the village, noting that it had changed somewhat. Not one to linger on sentimental feelings, Sasuke pressed on to the destroyed Naka Shrine where he unsealed the hidden meeting hall below the temple. Once there, Orochimaru initiated the ritual to unseal the contents of the Shinigami using the spore clones that had been attached to Sasuke as sacrifices to reincarnate the ones who knew everything: the previous four Hokage. After introducing himself to the Hokage, Sasuke asks Hiruzen why he had ordered Itachi to massacre the Uchiha clan to have him confirm everything he had been told before. Tobirama then tells Sasuke that he was from a clan possessed by evil, revealing how the Sharingan was awaken, and how an Uchiha who experienced loss would spiral deeper into darkness and become unwieldy, and that he, in his attempt to help the Uchiha channel that force, gave them the Konoha Military Police Force, which ultimately destroyed them as well. Though admonished for this by his brother Hashirama, Sasuke told them that he was not pure nor a child and asked the latter what is a village and what is a shinobi.Sasuke makes his decision to protect Konoha.

After Hashirama concluded his story, Sasuke mused that it was nothing if not ironic that the person who had inherited Hashirama's will was an Uchiha. Tobirama, however, corrected the young Uchiha, noting that not only did he himself not hate the Uchiha, but that there were many who had transcended the limitations of thinking only of the Uchiha, presenting his subordinate Kagami as a prime example of this. Having heard all he needed to from the Hokage including the Third and Fourth, Sasuke seemingly broke free of the Curse of Hatred and resolved to protect the sacrifice his brother had made and heads to the battlefield. Upon exiting the Naka Shrine, they were confronted by Karin whom Sasuke simply apologised to. With this, they all prepared to make their way to the battlefield.
Arriving on the battlefield, Sasuke's presence shocked Sakura and Shikamaru, angers Kiba and surprises the rest of the Rookie Nine. After noting that his former comrades were as boisterous as ever, Sasuke earned nothing but scorn from them for his past actions. After declaring to them that he would change the village and become Hokage so that incidents such as these would never repeat themselves, everyone became noticeably shocked. Shikamaru noted that this would be an impossible feat, given what he's done, but Sasuke brushed the comment away, noting that he couldn't care less what they thought. Naruto, recalling Itachi's last words to him about how the village needs to acknowledge you before you can be the Hokage, intervened and corrected Sasuke, noting that he, Naruto, would in fact become Hokage

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I don't know if there is a clear winner here.

Naruto and Sasuke pre-Shippuden had more going on then Goku and Vegeta did over Dragon Ball's entire run for the sole reason that Naruto (paralleling Goku) was just as engaged and invested in it as Sasuke, shared histories of lack of family and social neglect. Naruto lacks Goku's personal stability and security, trying to gain it was a big part of his original motivation, and thus Sasuke's rebellion is an intensely personal affront to him.

Then, as I understand, Sasuke jumps ship and Kishimoto spends the rest of the manga using him as a wildcard and having no idea how to truly reintegrate him properly. Like Naruto, he spirals into something completely different as Kishimoto kept throwing on more layers.

Spoiler:

This ending scenario happening now- the out-of-bloody-nowhere "End of all things deity in the last 10% (1% in this case) of the story" is the highest of all anime contrivances, by the way. Reminds me of other series that fell to it.

Whereas Goku and Vegeta is one-sided most of the time because Goku is so comfortable with who he is that he almost never initiates a conflict between them. It's not a rivarly because Goku has nothing to gain by one-upping Vegeta- he never bats an eye in the few windows where Vegeta is the stronger of the two- he just wants to understand what makes him tick. As he does more and more over the series- he and Trunks are the only ones to really understand that Vegeta's Saiyain myths are all he has left to live for- he gives Vegeta more and more leeway, almost as if suspecting he could be neutered into a good guy the entire time, to the point where he can convincingly tell Vegeta after not having seen him for seven years that he was above resorting to violence, negative self-talk, and cooperation with maniacs to be free.