Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

So here's something I was recently made aware of: in the anime (and only the anime, from what I can tell), Goku states that the dance fusion is more powerful than Namekian fusion. Meaning that either one or both of the following statements are true:

A. Gotenks is even more ridiculously stronger than Goku than is commonly thought.
B. Piccolo somehow jumped to over one hundred thousand in one week. The same ridiculous training gains should also apply to the humans.

From what I recall, Piccolo explains his fusion process with Nail, then Goku says that the fusion dance works differently in which instead of one participant's body being the host, it forms an entirely new being. Then Piccolo says that the end result is the same, that the two combine and all that's left is one with a great amount of power. But even then, no one knew how powerful the fusion dance would be. I can't recall though whether Goku says that the fusion dance is stronger (though I think it is), but that it works differently. That's just from what I remember.

Goku says that the fusion dance is "even more awesome" than Namekian fusion, right before talking about how strong it is. It seems pretty obvious that dance fusion > Namekian fusion from that scene.

How would Goku know that? He's seen the "before/after" results of a grand total of one Namekian fusion, considering that he never saw Piccolo between his revival and fusion with Nail. And even if he had sensed him, the differing results of Piccolo's fusions would mean that Goku has nothing to base this statement off of. The formula for calculating the power of a Namekian fusion is basically "X(+/x)Y=Plot." Goku's pretty much just talking out his ass here. Sure, the fusion dance in general may be stronger than the end result of Piccolo and Kami's fusion, but to say it is a totally superior method based on a single event (incidentally, hasn't Goku only seen the fusion dance performed by the same individuals too?) seems a bit flawed to me. A single freakishly large rabbit might be able to kill a snake. That does not mean that all rabbits>snakes.

[DragonBallFan8001]

Here are a few more power levels that I think some characters have after the Freeza Arc:

Piccolo:

-When Trunks first arrived: 1,800,000.
(He probably trained a little after the Freeza Arc, but not a lot.)

-After training for 3 years: 7,000,000.
(Piccolo trained with Goku for 3 years, who was quite a lot stronger than Piccolo, so he probably got a lot stronger. He probably became as strong as Goku, because Goku had to hold back against Piccolo and Gohan while training, while Piccolo and Gohan could train all out.)

-After fusing with Kami: 450,000,000.
(Piccolo became as strong as #17, after fusing with Kami.)

-After training in the room of spirit and time: 1,350,000,000.
(I think Goku became 8 times as strong in the room of spirit in time, so I think that Piccolo got 3 times as strong, because he has a little less fighting potential and because he didn't have a training partner.)

-During the Boo Arc: 1,500,000,000.
(In the 7 years before the Boo Arc, Piccolo mostly lived on Kami's Lookout, and he probably didn't train much.)


Dr. Gero: 5,000,000.
-After absorbing Vegeta's energy blast and Piccolo's energy: 6,000,000.
(Piccolo could defeat Dr. Gero, even after Dr. Gero absorbed some of his energy.)

#19: 4,500,000.
-After absorbing some of Goku's energy: 4,800,000.
(#19 is slightly weaker than Dr. Gero.)

#18: 440,000,000.
(#18 is a lot stronger than Vegeta is during their fight. Vegeta is around the same power level as Goku during that fight, which is probably around 350,000,000.)

#17: 450,000,000.
(#17 is slightly stronger than #18.)

Cell:

-When he first met Piccolo: 330,000,000.
-After absorbing a bit of Piccolo's energy: 340,000,000.
(He's surprised by Vegeta's power, if I remember correctly, so he's probably a little weaker than Vegeta, who most likely has a power level of a little over 350,000,000 at this moment.)

-When he's fighting against #17: 550,000,000.
(He's a lot stronger than #17 at this moment.)

-After absorbing #17 (Semi-perfect Cell): 1,000,000,000.
(#17's power level + Cell's power level.)

-After absorbing #18 (Perfect Cell): 2,880,000,000.
((#18's power level + Semi-perfect Cell's power level) × 2.)

-Powered up beyond his limits (similar to Trunks' super ascended form): 4,320,000,000.
(Perfect Cell's power level × 1.5.)

-Super Perfect Cell: 5,760,000,000.
(Perfect Cell's power level × 2.)

#16: 550,000,000.
(The same power level as Imperfect Cell, when Cell attacked #17.)

[Kamiccolo9]

What does everyone think of Piccolo's power during the Mecha Freeza mini-arc? Personally, due to the way he acts, and some choice quotes I've found in the strength checker, I'd say he's at least on par with Vegeta. Maybe even a bit stronger.

[DragonBallFan8001]

What does everyone think of Piccolo's power during the Mecha Freeza mini-arc?

Piccolo:

-When Trunks first arrived: 1,800,000.
(He probably trained a little after the Freeza Arc, but not a lot.)

This is the power level I think Piccolo had during the Mecha Freeza Arc. I don't think he was as strong as Vegeta, because at the end of the Freeza Arc, Vegeta was almost twice as powerful as Piccolo, and I don't think Piccolo caught up in the two years before Trunks and Mecha Freeza arrived, because I think he didn't train very much in those two years, because there was no threat to prepare for.

[RandomGuy96]

What does everyone think of Piccolo's power during the Mecha Freeza mini-arc? Personally, due to the way he acts, and some choice quotes I've found in the strength checker, I'd say he's at least on par with Vegeta. Maybe even a bit stronger.

He challenges Vegeta pretty confidently, and at this point is still shown as being able to gain power quite fast. In the one year between Raditz and Nappa, he gets over eight times stronger. In the one week on Kaio's, he's implied to get at least a few times stronger, and possibly even many dozens of times stronger. In the three years between Freeza's death and the arrival of the first androids, he definitely gets tens of times stronger. By the time Goku arrives on Earth, Piccolo has been training for nearly two years. There's no major threat to prepare for, so he wouldn't gain as much as he did in those other periods, but I think he should still get a huge boost. Those android arc gains have to start somewhere, after all. I have him more than doubling his strength, putting him decently ahead of Vegeta, who was training more intensely, but, like the other base saiyans, just couldn't gain all that much power without transformations or extreme methods anymore.

Namek arc:

Goku: 3,000,000
Vegeta: 2,000,000
Piccolo: 1,300,000

Mecha arc:

Goku: 3,600,000
Piccolo: 2,800,000
Vegeta: 2,500,000

Also, it probably doesn't mean anything, but when Goku arrives on Earth and asks who killed Freeza, he suggests that it was Piccolo before he guesses Vegeta.

[Darkron2151]

I have Mecha Arc Piccolo a little stronger than Vegeta and on par with Freeza Arc Goku:

Freeza Arc

• Piccolo: 1,500,000
  
  Vegeta: 2,400,000
  
  Goku: 3,000,000

Mecha Arc

• Piccolo: 3,000,000
  
  Vegeta: 2,800,000
  
  Goku: 3,600,000

And on a similar note, how strong do you all think the Z-Fighters were in the future world (where 17 and 18 kill all of them)? It's been 3 years since Mecha Freeza, but they weren't warned about the Androids, so probably no extensive training (maybe Vegeta and Piccolo ). I'll start off:

• Future Gohan (Kid): 480,000
  Future Gohan (Two Arms): 2,400,000
  Super Saiyan: 120,000,000
  Future Gohan (One Arm): 3,300,000
  Super Saiyan: 165,000,000
  
  Future Trunks (14 Years Old): 60,000
  Super Saiyan: 3,000,000
  
  Future Android 17: 270,000,000
  Future Android 18: 262,500,000

The following was from my original list a couple pages back, but I'll now add the others:

• Future Goku (Before he died): 4,000,000
  Super Saiyan: 200,000,000
  
  Future Vegeta: 3,200,000
  Super Saiyan (If he has it that is): 160,000,000
  
  Future Piccolo: 9,000,000
  Future Piccolo (Kami Fusion): 18,000,000

Despite improving dramatically, Piccolo is still done in by the Androids, to the point where a hypothetical Kami fusion would still be fruitless. And here's the Peanut Gallery:

• Krillin: 180,000
  Tenshinhan: 150,000
  Shin Kikoho (Haxed): 30,000,000
  Yamcha: 80,000
  Chaozu: 24,000

The humans increased a little bit, roughtly doubling their Mecha Arc selves with the exception of Tenshinhan. Still no match for the Androids though, even with Tenshinhan's haxed attack.

[RandomGuy96]

I doubt future Vegeta had Super Saiyan, as future Gohan was willing to take on the android that killed him several times while still a relative weakling.

Any, new fun fact: Slug's fat, winged, Dodoria-like henchman was his strongest:

http://web.archive.org/web/201111040328 ... dbz04#link

Invasion!! The evil invaders
An evil gang led by Slug. Plotting to rule the entire universe, they travel the universe in Planet Cruisers that are planets restructured into vehicles. Every member seems to be of the Demon Clan.

Zeiun
He's executed for Slug for slipping up and saying "Slug-sama is already getting old."

Angira
He seals up his opponent's movement with his freely stretching arms. Like the rest of the warriors, he hates the sun.

Dorodabo
The one with the greatest superhuman strength. He has a cowardly personality, and ambushes his opponents.

Medamaccha
He can split four bodies from his back, which latch on to his opponent and suck their energy.

Slug
A Super Namekian with a heart of pure evil. With his youth restored by the dragonballs, he plots to conquer the universe.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I doubt future Vegeta had Super Saiyan, as future Gohan was willing to take on the android that killed him several times while still a relative weakling.

Who says that Future Vegeta was stronger than Goku like our Vegeta was?

[RandomGuy96]

I doubt future Vegeta had Super Saiyan, as future Gohan was willing to take on the android that killed him several times while still a relative weakling.

Who says that Future Vegeta was stronger than Goku like our Vegeta was?

Nothing, but I doubt future Gohan was stronger than even Mecha arc Vegeta in base when he was still weak enough that "less than half" power 17 could toss him around like a ragdoll. That would require quite a bit of bloating.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Why would Gohan be so weak?

[RandomGuy96]

Why would Gohan be so weak?

Gohan, throughout the majority of his life, was weak enough that future 17 while using less than half his power could utterly crush him like a bug.

In his final fight with the android duo, he's improved so much over his previous strength that he thinks he can take 17 AND 18 at the same time. This Gohan should be able to one-shot the past Gohan, who himself is apparently so much stronger than Vegeta that he thought he could take the androids who stomped him alone.

And yet, after that, he's still decently weaker than Trunks; not by a huge amount, but by enough that Trunks thinks the difference is notable.

So, unless SS Trunks in his first appearance is extremely strong, Gohan can't be all that powerful.

[Pantalones]

Any, new fun fact: Slug's fat, winged, Dodoria-like henchman was his strongest:

That seems a little off, considering that Piccolo effortlessly killed him with a basic ki blast to the face and then went on to have a hard time with the other two.

[dbgtFO]

Any, new fun fact: Slug's fat, winged, Dodoria-like henchman was his strongest:

That seems a little off, considering that Piccolo effortlessly killed him with a basic ki blast to the face and then went on to have a hard time with the other two.

That reminds me of how easily Piccolo beat Doore and Neiz, but had trouble with Salza, yet Doore was the strongest according to the battle powers.

[Son Edo]

Any, new fun fact: Slug's fat, winged, Dodoria-like henchman was his strongest:

That seems a little off, considering that Piccolo effortlessly killed him with a basic ki blast to the face and then went on to have a hard time with the other two.

Makes a little sense considering he fought Piccolo all by himself.

[Kaboom]

Not to mention that he kind of took the hit from one of them to save Gohan. Other than that, it kind of makes sense that Piccolo would single out and take care of the strongest one first. Even though he could take out any of them pretty easily in a one-on-one fight, they're all probably strong enough compared to him that they'd potentially beat him as a group, and at least be able to hurt him like they did.

[xmysticgohanx]

Why would Gohan be so weak?

Gohan, throughout the majority of his life, was weak enough that future 17 while using less than half his power could utterly crush him like a bug.

In his final fight with the android duo, he's improved so much over his previous strength that he thinks he can take 17 AND 18 at the same time. This Gohan should be able to one-shot the past Gohan, who himself is apparently so much stronger than Vegeta that he thought he could take the androids who stomped him alone.

And yet, after that, he's still decently weaker than Trunks; not by a huge amount, but by enough that Trunks thinks the difference is notable.

So, unless SS Trunks in his first appearance is extremely strong, Gohan can't be all that powerful.

Wouldn't that mean future Gohan is weaker than Namek Arc SSJ Goku?

[Kaboom]

Wouldn't that mean future Gohan is weaker than Namek Arc SSJ Goku.

Maybe. With no warning about the Androids, most of the future's heroes probably didn't train nearly as hard. Especially Gohan, who without the impending threat may not have been allowed by Chi-Chi to train at all. If he was considerably weaker than his "prime" Android-arc self when the other heroes were killed off, then even after becoming a Super Saiyan he may well have been much weaker than Goku was.

[Darkron2151]

Any thoughts or opinions on the Humans' gainz from the 3 years of training between Mecha Freeza saga to Android saga?

[ZombieVito]

I gave them a 10x increase. I thought about giving them less than 2 but then I realized the all increased 5-8x their powers in one year to face Nappa and Vegeta.

[Darkron2151]

I gave them a 10x increase. I thought about giving them less than 2 but then I realized the all increased 5-8x their powers in one year to face Nappa and Vegeta.

I agree. It still gives them just a little more (if any) relevance to the story, plus it makes me feel better about the "Tenshinhan: Shin Kikoho" fiasco.

Btw, made some updates on my list (213)!! Fiddled with some levels from the Android saga all the way to the Cell games (mostly with Cell) and changed Dabura and Gohan a little in the Early Buu saga.