If a different mangaka wrote Dragon Ball

[Super Sonic]

The video games did give epic moments though.

On topic, though not mangakas, I kinda wonder what a story written by Paul Dini would've been like and with DCAU-style animation courtesy of Bruce Timm.

[Saiga]

I dunno, while Kaguya has yet to really come into her own as a villain, I still have to give Kishimoto credit for actually surprising us here. This is the guy who had a 'big secret' about who Naruto's dad was that everyone pretty much knew from chapter one...and waited freakin' forever to actually reveal it to no surprise to anyone. There was also the big secret about Tobi's true identity that people pretty much called right away too. So for him to finally actually have pulled one on us, that I have to give my approval on.

That and I still call some of the stuff dealing with Itachi to be a far bigger asspull than anything else the manga has done.

That's not worth praising at all. Imagine if next chapter Hagaromo's unnamed brother just snapped Kaguya's neck and became the final villain. Nobody would expect it right? That's because it comes out of fucking nowhere, so naturally it's going to surprise people. It's really easy to make something a surprise through poor writing, and that's the only thing that happened with Kaguya.

Really, Kaguya's just the opposite extreme of what he did with Tobi and Minato, it seems he can't do a balanced plot twist.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Eh, maybe I praised it a little too much, but I still feel it's a more satisfying twist than having Madara be the big bad like it seemed he was going to be. Part of that could be my bias from being so tired of anything and everything to do with Uchihas though.

I also feel that it's pretty novel for one of the major Shonen properties to have a female final villain. I'm sure that's happened in some series that I'm not personally aware of, but it still seems to be a pretty rare thing. That was one of the things that I liked about the first FMA in comparison to the manga and Brotherhood as well.

[Flame Dragon]

Even if Kaguya wasn't an alien, the writing is still godawful. Replacing a villain that's been hyped for 400+ chapters, is integral to the story and lore of your manga, and is connected to everything that happened with another random villain that was hinted at only 20 chapters ago, has barebones backstory and no relationship with ANYONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS... fuck even a fanfiction would know that this is bad writing.

Sounds like the Cell and Buu Arcs.

Except Freeza was actually defeated before the switch.
And Cell and Buu are from different arcs, so they were built up in their respective sagas, meanwhile Kishimoto switched villain 4 times IN THE SAME ARC.

It would be like if during the battle with Freeza, he gets stabbed on the back by Vegeta and then another villain that comes out from nowhere replaces him for the remainder of the battle. The Androids came 3 months after Freeza, and didn't replace his battle.


And you know, the thing i hate the most is Jesusaruto. He was one of my favourite characters in Part I, now i hate him to death.
It's so stupid that he can cure any illness, create miracles and replace missing body parts for everyone.
It's like i'm reading a manga about the life of Jesus Christ.


... ...

Actually, that would be much more interesting of a read, my bad.

[Kid Buu]

The Cell Arc changed villain 5 times.

Toriyama intended to use 19/20, then 17/18, then Imperfect Cell, then Semiperfect Cell, then Perfect Cell.

[KentalSSJ6]

The Cell Arc changed villain 5 times.

Toriyama intended to use 19/20, then 17/18, then Imperfect Cell, then Semiperfect Cell, then Perfect Cell.

Are we really using Cell's forms as entirely different villains?

[TheGmGoken]

The Cell Arc changed villain 5 times.

Toriyama intended to use 19/20, then 17/18, then Imperfect Cell, then Semiperfect Cell, then Perfect Cell.

Would't they be just 2 times? Cell other forms are transformations as it was clear since his debut that he was going to become perfect by getting 18 and 19.

Original: 19 20
Change 1: 17-18
Change 2: Cell.

Cell transformations should't count as a change of bad guys since that's like counting Freeza forms as different people. Besides the change in bad guys in Cell Arc didn't feel forced(Especially how Toriyama writes on the edge of his seat) but acutally flowed nicely surprisingly.

[Kid Buu]

Toriyama mentions on an interview on this site that he was forced to change Cell, so we get Semiperfect Cell, and then again which is why we got Perfect Cell.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I think Kid Buu was referring to the fact that Toriyama spent less time with Cell's first two forms than he'd meant to, due to his former editor's complaints (or was it his current editor, and his former editor's complaints were only about the Androids?), and thus did have to 'change' things again where he hadn't planned to.

I do agree though, I think we were always going to see Cell's Perfect form before things came to their conclusion. It would have been way too much of a tease to mention that he could achieve it to not show it.

Edit: Ack, ninja-ed.

[Kid Buu]

Buu Arc changes villain from Fat Buu, to Super Buu, to Kid Buu. That's two times, and yes while they are still Buu they were considered different people.

[TheGmGoken]

Toriyama mentions on an interview on this site that he was forced to change Cell, so we get Semiperfect Cell, and then again which is why we got Perfect Cell.

Yes he was forced to change what state Cell was in. HOWEVER Cell was always going to change into his perfect. He said that in his DEBUT before Toriyama was forced. Saying it's changing bad guys is kinda "weird". It's like saying Goku turning SSJ was changing Heroes. Rushing a transformation is NOT the same as changing bad guys.

Buu Arc changes villain from Fat Buu, to Super Buu, to Kid Buu. That's two times, and yes while they are still Buu they were considered different people.

I can SORTA agree with that. But we can't say the same for Cell

[Flame Dragon]

I must be the only one that actually likes Cell 2nd Form. Dang you editor.

Anyway, changing forms cannot be compared to switching villain with a completely different one out of the blue. Kaguya not only has no ties with the main characters, but she has a completely different goal, abilities and personality than Madara.

The most a transformation ever changed in DBZ is personality (for Buu and Cell especially), other than power.

[Kid Buu]

But the Buu's are different people, he even says so.

[Saiga]

Eh, maybe I praised it a little too much, but I still feel it's a more satisfying twist than having Madara be the big bad like it seemed he was going to be. Part of that could be my bias from being so tired of anything and everything to do with Uchihas though.

I also feel that it's pretty novel for one of the major Shonen properties to have a female final villain. I'm sure that's happened in some series that I'm not personally aware of, but it still seems to be a pretty rare thing. That was one of the things that I liked about the first FMA in comparison to the manga and Brotherhood as well.

I absolutely hate every part of Madara with his stupidly high power and connection to everything, but it doesn't justify how bad everything with Kaguya was handled.

Besides, Black Zetsu is the real villain. He's ordering Kaguya around and has more emotion than her.

[Tatakae!!Ramenman]

If Hiroyuki Takei(author of Shaman King) wrote Dragon ball, the first quest for the dragon balls would never end. He would continually find ways to make it longer and would take a minimum of 30 volumes to complete the task of finally collecting all of the Dragon Balls.

[Kid Buu]

Well, we know now that if Kishimoto did DBZ, then BoG would be the epilogue and not the 28th Budokai.

[TheGmGoken]

Well, we know now that if Kishimoto did DBZ, then BoG would be the epilogue and not the 28th Budokai.

Even BoG is better than the War arc. Saying a lot. I hate BoG and I defend Naruto.

[UltimateHammerBro]

The video games did give epic moments though.

On topic, though not mangakas, I kinda wonder what a story written by Paul Dini would've been like and with DCAU-style animation courtesy of Bruce Timm.

This would be great in so many levels.

[SaiyanZ]

I'd want either Yoshihiro Togashi or Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro to write Dragon Ball in some alternate situation that does not have Toriyama as the main writer. Toriko & Hunter x Hunter are the only series that I can see surpassing DB's quality as a manga, something that the Big 3 hasn't done yet (though I think One Piece has only tied it). I've always said Togashi writes extremely similar to Toriyama although his series tend to deal with more societal and darker issues. Yusuke and Gon are extremely similar to Goku (even more than Luffy with his lack of intelligence and appetite) and a lot of characters in both YYH and HxH are similar to some of DB's (Hiei-Vegeta, Kurama-Piccolo, Meruem-Cell+Buu, Toguro-Cell, Zeno-Taopaipai, Kami-Koenma etc.). Shimabukuro is like Oda except without the forced humor and drama, so he'd capture that DB feel of not making things too emotional in a great manner. Both write great fights as well, so the series would be in good hands with them. Yusuke Murata would be a good choice too, with his art. I am interested to see how a complex story would suit DBZ though, like in One Piece, Toriko and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure

[SaiyanZ]

Well damn, why didn't you just say you didn't want Dragon Ball to be Dragon Ball?

I don't really mind the way DBZ did what it did otherwise I wouldn't be here, it's just why it's not better than Naruto.

Naruto has the better story, settings, development, artwork, fights, development, twists and variety than Dragon Ball.

One Piece >= Naruto > Dragon Ball >> Bleach >= Fairy Tail

I disagree, the only thing Naruto had going for it over Dragon Ball was its story, and with the revelation of Tobi as who he was (which was predictable as hell) and the shift and shafting of major villains within mere chapters (Black Zetsu, Kaguya, Madara and Obito), it hardly holds up anymore, especially with moments like the beginning of the Saiyan arc, Trunks's introduction, Cell's introduction etc. Perhaps the world would've been better if we saw more villages, there's only Konoha, the Sand Village, and perhaps the Samurai's land that get any sort of importance to the story; compare that to Namek or the afterlife's places like Snake Way or the Kai planet and its a stomp imo. Art I massively disagree, and twists were just not fulfilling. DB's main cast is better, even with the humans; like comparing Krillin or Tenshinhan to someone like Shino or Kiba is laughable (once again, imo ofc). Same thing goes with villains, though I found Madara to be good until he had a pretty bad defeat. One Piece is on par with DB atm, I feel its story and world are better, but not its characters and action.