The Origins of "Super Saiyan" ...?

[plusloud]

Sorry if this has been answered before somewhere in DaizEX, but I was wondering if someone could clarify this for me. A while back, I recall hearing or reading something on the origins of the "Super Saiya-jin" concept, saying something along the lines of it having been a suggestion to Toriyama-sensei from a friend or manga-ka colleague of his - "Why don't you have them go 'Super?'"

However, a friend of mine recently told me that, according to Toriyama-sensei, it was a representation of a certain element of Buddhism - "bukai," or something to that extent - dealing with the evolution of oneself in one way or another. The SSJ increments were meant to reflect how the actual bukai system works.

So which is it? Or is it a combination of both?

[Mochi]

Well I always thought that it was his friend, but I could be wrong...

[PsyLiam]

I'd also go for the former suggestion, mainly because there's no way Toriyama had planned SSJ II and III when Goku first transformed on Namek. I doubt he intended for anyone else to go Super Saiyan at all (since he was planning on ending the series).

Besides, it's a pretty weird system if "evolving yourself" means getting longer hair and losing your eyebrows.

[Jerseymilk]

No, no it was the concept of "Fusion" that was suggested by Masazaku Katsura, manga-ka of Video Girl Ai and also a friend. Toriyama was trying to think up on how to make his warriors stronger and had no idea how he could possibly do it anymore since at SSJ3, it was already getting ridiculous. Masazaku, said to him that he could always fuse two of them together, and that's exactly what he did.

[Zackarotto]

Yeah, but couldn't they have both been suggested from friends / fellow mangaka?

That bit about Fusion being suggested by Masazaku Katsura was on the site, wasn't it?

[Jerseymilk]

I think it's on the site. As for them both being suggestions, maybe, I don't know enough about it I'm afraid. Or I've forgotten.

[PsyLiam]

I seem to remember that Toriyama wasn't originally sure if there was going to be a physical change involved in becoming a "Super Saiyan". Indeed, a lot of the dialogue from the Freeza saga implies that "the legendary Super Saiyan" is more a title than a power-up. It explains Vegeta and Ginyu thinking that Goku could be "The Legendary Super Saiyan" long before he got gold hair and all that.

[laserkid]

to nbe honest I don't know but it seemed to be something he was leading up to for most of the Freeza saga. So I don't know.

That little fusion biut is interesting, didn't lknow that before

[Nekoni]

Lets see... according to my drawing senses, Akira-sama musta' had the super-saiyan idea for quite a few months. *tilts head* at the start it was suggested that Goku was super saiyan- but Akira didn't want Goku to be it because he looked evil... that suggests character design came AFTER the idea, so that prolly scratches religion... plus, like, space-alien here...

I read an article once saying that dbz was pro-hitler, cuz they turned 'blond with blue eyes' *snicker snortle* but THAT is obviously not the cause. (it tried to add point by saying hitler was in a dbz move- -as one of the bad guys who got beaten up by Gotenks, duh)

I get the feeling it was his own creation, since he is very much into the transformations thing (almost as much as squaresoft) gee, look at any major villain he's ever created- a 'friend' can't have given him that long-lasting a trait.

Fusion was mentioned by a friend though, and I bless Akira for listening to his friends! *fusion fanatic*

[PsyLiam]

None of the DB villians transformed though (maybe Piccolo, at a push, but that's it). The "Transforming Super Villian" idea didn't really kick in until Freeza.

[B-kun]

Well, Veggie-Boy transformed into a huge ape of death.