They are using anime designs, anime stories, and anime titles (Dragon Ball Z).Kamiccolo9 wrote:Yeah, but who says that they are what-ifs of the anime? Why not what-ifs of the Dragon Ball story in general? Nothing ever specifies the anime.
Nah, let's drop it. I don't think I've got anything else to add, I've said what I had to say.I'm fine with continuing this, but if we do so, I'd suggest you make a new thread for it. It doesn't really belong here, at this point.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
It's not a theory. Official supplemental material flat-out says that SSJ Goku is at 150 million. Whether you accept that or not is up to you, but it is not a "theory."Low Tone G wrote:I would like to believe that Goku was only 15.000.000 as a Super Saiyan on the Namek, but Goku outright says that he can make his power 20 fold via Kaio-ken, so even if Goku was only 2.000.000 at base, being on a power of 15.000.000 as a Super Saiyan would put him below Kaio-ken himself(which would be 40. million), which wasn't enough to kill Freeza.
So it's better to accept turing a Super Saiyan makes you stronger than to only use a Kaio-ken, so I accept the fun theory of Goku being around 150.000.000 then.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
M8-Around Full Power Perfect Cell. I have everyone else besides Gohan equal to their Cell Games counterparts here, so I see this as how a Goku vs FP Perfect Cell fight would go.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
This, except that I don't think Bio-Broli got weaker (I think someone would have commented on that), and I think he is slightly stronger than normal Broli (Bio-Warriors are stronger than normal humans, plus the rule "next villain is always stronger than the previous one").Kamiccolo9 wrote:M8-Around Full Power Perfect Cell. I have everyone else besides Gohan equal to their Cell Games counterparts here, so I see this as how a Goku vs FP Perfect Cell fight would go.
M10-Slightly stronger than Buu Arc SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta. He'd put up a better fight against Fat Buu than Vegeta did, but he'd still lose pretty easily.
M11-I'd put him at his M10 level when we first see him, but after being corrupted by that gunk, he weakens to his M8 level.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
In Movie 8, I consider him mildly ahead of all the Super Saiyan heroes (who I consider somewhat weaker than their Cell Games selves) when in Super Saiyan himself, and then far above them and on-par with full-power Perfect Cell in his "Legendary" form. In Movie 10, his power has roughly doubled, and now as a Super Saiyan he's a bit stronger than SSJ Goku (as Daizenshuu #6 suggests), and likewise a bit stronger than SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta when he goes Legendary. I do this with the "Legendary Super Saiyan" form sharing a 100xbase/2xSSJ boost with Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan Grade 3.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.
I consider his game-exclusive higher form to be "legendary" only in the sense that they share the visual traits of his LSSJ state, and not that they're more powerful version which make him stronger than otherwise. I believe his LSSJ form is already his own special substitute for Super Saiyan 2. So Broli at SSJ2 would be equal in power to that, while in SSJ3 he'd be four times stronger than that like anyone else, and Super Saiyan 4 works just the same as anyone else too, whether it's a predictable multiplier like the other forms or some sort of dormant power thing.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Now for his video game forms. Where would you put his SSJ2, 3, and 4 forms at?
As little as I contribute, I might as well do so here because it might be fun! Now, let's tackle this one first. Broly is quite the touchy subject to mess with as many people tend to bloat him hilariously, even in his movie 8 appearance. While he is a formidable opponent, he is not the be all end all opponent. Even his movie 10 appearance isn't, really, even if it's a lot closer.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.
Okay. Now. For this, I will use his movie 10 self, as it's most relevant. This does not reflect anything of Heroes because I have never seen it. This is just the multipliers I'm using for his power level.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Now for his video game forms. Where would you put his SSJ2, 3, and 4 forms at?
I have LSSJ as a 3x multiplier since in m10 SSJ Broly = SSJ Gohan but LSSJ > SSJ2 Gohan.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.
I dont think Broly had that much of a advantage over Gohan. Multiple times Gohan lands blows on LSSJ Broly that visibly stun and stagger him. Not to mention he flat out overpowers himself out of Broly's arm hold and even breaks out of Broly's bear hug in base form.xmysticgohanx wrote:I have LSSJ as a 3x multiplier since in m10 SSJ Broly = SSJ Gohan but LSSJ > SSJ2 Gohan.KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.
That's way too permissive for my tastes. Also, I'm a firm believer of set multipliers for this series, though I'm seriously thinking of making a reasonable exception for fusions on the justification of the multipliers being different depending on several factors between the fusees, like relationship.Zombie wrote:I really never used a multiplier for fusions. I just put them where I see them best.
It's not the official Potara multiplier. There is no official Potara multiplier. The image simply says that Goku & Vegeta make Vegetto, it says nothing about battle powers. Just like the "Goten + Trunks = Gotenks" doesn't mean Goten's BP + Trunks' BP = Gotenks' BP.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote:By the way, I realized quite a while ago about a flaw for the official Potara multiplier.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Same here. The way I see it, there's a good reason why things like the Super Saiyan forms have been easily given official multipliers, but neither method of Fusion ever has.Zombie wrote:I really never used a multiplier for fusions. I just put them where I see them best.
I think that the reason is to hide the difference between Goku & Gotenks. All of the official media avoid comparing them.Kaboom wrote:The way I see it, there's a good reason why things like the Super Saiyan forms have been easily given official multipliers, but neither method of Fusion ever has.
Wouldn't the statement in the JSAT put the base kids on Freeza's level? Which would contradict what BoG says about base Goku vs FP Freeza? The JSAT statement also comes from Tarble, who has First Form Freeza in his mind... making the base kids around 1st Form Freeza's level. But this is impossible going by the manga, which shows that the kids are stronger than #18 (who is far stronger than Freeza), and not extremely behind the adult Saiyans (while in the same form)...TheDevilsCorpse wrote:I'm an odd man out in this situation. I accept the JSAT special, so the Super Saiyan boys are still only around Freeza's level to me.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
