The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:52 pm

Do we have any info about him that places him that high? It just seems like an unnecessary bloat to me.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by TheGmGoken » Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:56 pm

Zombie wrote:Do we have any info about him that places him that high? It just seems like an unnecessary bloat to me.
Isn't Vegetto just Goku strongest abd Vegeta strongest put together.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Kaboom » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:48 pm

I'm sure Vegetto is quite a few times stronger overall than Goku to be able to humiliate Gohan-Boo the way he did. But being a whopping four hundred times stronger or more just seems like overkill. He could be that strong, sure, but I doubt he is.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:54 pm

Zombie wrote:Do we have any info about him that places him that high? It just seems like an unnecessary bloat to me.
Elder Kaioshin said that base Gokhan would have absolutely no trouble handling Buutenks, so base Vegetto should be around that tier.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:10 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:Do we have any info about him that places him that high? It just seems like an unnecessary bloat to me.
Elder Kaioshin said that base Gokhan would have absolutely no trouble handling Buutenks, so base Vegetto should be around that tier.
But Gohan is a lot stronger than base Vegeta (Over 1000 times in my book). I have no problem believing that base Gokhan could manhandle Buutenks since he should be a lot stronger than base Vegetto.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:19 pm

Zombie wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:Do we have any info about him that places him that high? It just seems like an unnecessary bloat to me.
Elder Kaioshin said that base Gokhan would have absolutely no trouble handling Buutenks, so base Vegetto should be around that tier.
But Gohan is a lot stronger than base Vegeta (Over 1000 times in my book). I have no problem believing that base Gokhan could manhandle Buutenks since he should be a lot stronger than base Vegetto.
The fusion would be one of base Goku and base Gohan. Not Ultimate Gohan and base Goku, which shouldn't work based on other cases. The context of the statements really doesn't support the idea that Gohan would fuse in his Ultimate state.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:25 pm

That base Gohan no longer existed. "Ultimate" Gohan is not a transformation.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Zombie wrote:Base Gohan no longer existed. "Ultimate" Gohan is not a transformation.
Then how was Goku planning on fusing with him?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Saiga » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:53 pm

Given Goku's track record that arc, I'm going to say that's just another mistake on his part.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:54 pm

I'm talking about portara. Elder Kaioshin never said the other fusion will win.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:57 pm

Zombie wrote:I'm talking about portara. Elder Kaioshin never said the other fusion will win.
If base Gohan doesn't exist anymore, then Goku wouldn't be able to fuse with him. So then he never would have suggested fusing with Gohan before Old Kai told him about the Potara earrings.

Furthermore, I highly doubt fusing with Ultimate Gohan would work well for base Goku.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:59 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:I'm talking about portara. Elder Kaioshin never said the other fusion will win.
If base Gohan doesn't exist anymore, then Goku wouldn't be able to fuse with him. So then he never would have suggested fusing with Gohan before Old Kai told him about the Potara earrings.

Furthermore, I highly doubt fusing with Ultimate Gohan would work well for base Goku.
Gohan would just have to lower his ki to match Goku.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:05 pm

Zombie wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:I'm talking about portara. Elder Kaioshin never said the other fusion will win.
If base Gohan doesn't exist anymore, then Goku wouldn't be able to fuse with him. So then he never would have suggested fusing with Gohan before Old Kai told him about the Potara earrings.

Furthermore, I highly doubt fusing with Ultimate Gohan would work well for base Goku.
Gohan would just have to lower his ki to match Goku.
Goku specifically said that he couldn't use the fusion dance because no one in the afterlife could match him. I doubt you can execute a fusion like that by lowering your ki THAT much, or else the fusion dance would have no requirements at all besides two arms and similar height.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:15 pm

Guess it's just a mistake from AT, Ultimate Gohan was never treated as a transformation. Only in the videogames.
Last edited by ZombieVito on Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:25 pm

Zombie wrote:Guess it's just a mistake from AT, Ultimate Gohan was never treated as a transformation. Only in the videogames.
Oooooor there's no mistake, and it WAS just a transformation, which is supported by every piece of supplemental material (video games, movie 13, BOG) and implied in the original work (Old Kai tells him to transform into a SS, he tries, and goes Ultimate instead).
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:29 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:Guess it's just a mistake from AT, Ultimate Gohan was never treated as a transformation. Only in the videogames.
Oooooor there's no mistake, and it WAS just a transformation, which is supported by every piece of supplemental material (video games, movie 13, BOG) and implied in the original work (Old Kai tells him to transform into a SS, he tries, and goes Ultimate instead).
In any case a SSJ3 Gokhan (base Gohan and Goku) should be stronger than Ultimate Gohan and possibly defeat Buutenks.

And I fail to see how a portara fusion with Ultimate Gohan will not give more power than a fusion with Vegeta.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:30 pm

Zombie wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Zombie wrote:Guess it's just a mistake from AT, Ultimate Gohan was never treated as a transformation. Only in the videogames.
Oooooor there's no mistake, and it WAS just a transformation, which is supported by every piece of supplemental material (video games, movie 13, BOG) and implied in the original work (Old Kai tells him to transform into a SS, he tries, and goes Ultimate instead).
In any case a SSJ3 Gokhan (base Gohan and Goku) should be stronger than Ultimate Gohan and possibly defeat Buutenks.

And I fail to see how a portara fusion with Ultimate Gohan will not give more power than a fusion with Vegeta.
Because it shouldn't be a fusion with Ultimate Gohan. The context of the statement points to it being a fusion between base Gohan and base Goku.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Son Edo » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:19 am

Ultimate Gokhan would be incredibly strong.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Son Edo » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:32 am

Also do you have to be level battle power to combine with Potara? I can't remember.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by White Oni » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:40 am

Son Edo wrote:Also do you have to be level battle power to combine with Potara? I can't remember.
Not at all.

Remember that Goku considers fusing with Hercule and Dende.
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