Series Recap in Extended BoG

[Chuquita]

I'm just tired of Yamamuro's art-style. I guess I just might be spoiled from getting so many different styles in the anime, or maybe the way the Vegeta-type ssj eyes that Yamamuro draws look bloated or off compared to his old, better(imo) art from the 90's and that puts me off.

I like Tate's art (he did bits of the Jump Tour 08' special), but I was told he probably wouldn't want such a lengthy assignment.
Also sad Toyble's not an animator, as he captures that Buu arc art-style of Toriyama's very well.

I just want less bloating, less wide-face--it's not reflective of any art-style Toriyama ever used. Toei has animators who grab Oda's style, would it be that difficult to find some who can grab Toriyama's? The series definitely had some. It wouldn't even need to be them, you could hire newer animators that have the skills.

[Doctor.]

I'm going to be that guy, but I'm glad they are not reanimating Dragon ball. Just look:

Spoiler:

https://flic.kr/p/mjYggg

VS




https://flic.kr/p/mk1eHb

VS




https://flic.kr/p/mjYYWi

VS

While the animation is flashy, it doesn't compare to the detail put into each frame from the old days.

Spoiler:

Though to be fair, in motion, it looks nice I guess. Still, nothing compares to the old gritty look.

Kaioken looks horrible, but everything else is pretty decent.

[jjgp1112]

It doesn't look nice at all. It's weak key animators drawing on the quick. It has nothing to do with the digital coloring, either, it's the lack of skill of the key animators selected to handle those cuts.

I really don't get the crusade against digital animation on here. When I watch something like one of the One Piece movies, I can't fathom how any "traditional" cel animation could ever measure up to that. It's the substandard talent that's the problem, not the tools.

[JulieYBM]

I'm just tired of Yamamuro's art-style. I guess I just might be spoiled from getting so many different styles in the anime, or maybe the way the Vegeta-type ssj eyes that Yamamuro draws look bloated or off compared to his old, better(imo) art from the 90's and that puts me off.

I like Tate's art (he did bits of the Jump Tour 08' special), but I was told he probably wouldn't want such a lengthy assignment.
Also sad Toyble's not an animator, as he captures that Buu arc art-style of Toriyama's very well.

I just want less bloating, less wide-face--it's not reflective of any art-style Toriyama ever used. Toei has animators who grab Oda's style, would it be that difficult to find some who can grab Toriyama's? The series definitely had some. It wouldn't even need to be them, you could hire newer animators that have the skills.

I don't know if Tate Naoki would be against acting as character designer. It would depend a lot on whether or not he wants to try and stay on the frontlines as a key animator or not. He still has the magic, so he might not want to lose time while being a character designer, especially if the schedule is too short for him to do key animation. It wasn't until Episode #118 that Kudo Masashi managed to find the time and will to do key animation for Bleach. After Episode #121 he didn't find time to do key animation for the TV series until Episode #230, which he also performed the role of animation supervisor for.

Then again, perhaps Tate merely hasn't been offered the chance to act as a character designer for a series. He might actually be up to it.

It doesn't look nice at all. It's weak key animators drawing on the quick. It has nothing to do with the digital coloring, either, it's the lack of skill of the key animators selected to handle those cuts.

I really don't get the crusade against digital animation on here. When I watch something like one of the One Piece movies, I can't fathom how any "traditional" cel animation could ever measure up to that. It's the substandard talent that's the problem, not the tools.

Unfortunately, fans of Dragon Ball are not necessarily fans of animation. I seem to remember many users here openly stating that Dragon Ball is the only 'anime' they watch. The current era of Japanese animation has never had stronger talent, especially from young kids who are eager to experiment and the veteran animators and directors willing to both guide and learn from them. Dragon Ball has the unfortunate burden of being a mainstream title, so it doesn't have to rely on quality over quantity.

[Zephyr]

As much as I'd like to the series reanimated to be in a uniform artstyle, I would hate for it to be the current artstyle. It looks so plastic.

[Doctor.]

I wonder why they cannot replicate the same they did with film 12 and 13.

[JulieYBM]

I wonder why they cannot replicate the same they did with film 12 and 13.

The production staff do not have the interest to do so. Yamamuro's designs reflect his current manner of drawing and Hosoda Masahiro and Morishita Kouzou allowed it. Still, he's not like he wasn't trying to capture the look of what Toriyama had done for the concept designs.

So normally when making them into animation, we would simplify the illustrations for the key frames in order to make them easier to move, but since Toriyama-sensei had drawn this much, I wanted to animate them as-is, without any simplifications.

[Doctor.]

To be honest, I would prefer if they deviate from Toriyama's current style. It seems like a downgrade from his Dragon Ball (Z) days.

[DarkPrince_92]

To be honest, I would prefer if they deviate from Toriyama's current style. It seems like a downgrade from his Dragon Ball (Z) days.

I don't think that's possible. Doesn't Toriyama have a say in how his own creation should look? He does supervise Dragon Ball productions, does he not? Depending on how much he cares at this point, I feel like he wants Dragon Ball to look a certain way, even if he isn't the one drawing.

[Daimakku]

Awesome! I had never seen the extended editions scenes before. I assume Goku was reminiscing on his past adventures or something of the likes?

No. It's a traditional recap from the narrator about the events in Goku's life prior to the film.

Oh I see. Thanks!

I'm going to be that guy, but I'm glad they are not reanimating Dragon ball. Just look:
(...)
Though to be fair, in motion, it looks nice I guess. Still, nothing compares to the old gritty look.

And, once again, your posts remind me how much I wish they reanimated DB. I love this new style. It looks wonderful. On the other hand the reanimated Sailor Moon looks horrifying.

I don't have faith in Toei Animation today to do a newly animated Dragon Ball Z anime any justice. They are cheap bastards and they would do the bare minimum to keep costs down. They know children are gonna buy their crap anyway, so they just do cheap animation to get it over with. SMC is just one example of how they would treat an old show with new animation.

BoG had decent animation, but everything else Dragon Ball related they've done looks like crap. Sure it's "shinier" but it just makes everything look like plastic and the details from the old animation just isn't there anymore. I'm simply not a fan of the new stuff.

Dragon Ball's animation peaked during the Majin Buu saga. That saga had some great animation. Full of details and the characters were well designed. GT wasn't too bad but it didn't touch the Buu saga.

[Gaffer Tape]

I have not seen this extended edition, but, just hearing about this recap and having seen the actual movie... doesn't that sound kinda redundant? I mean, the end credits is a prolonged flipping through of the entire manga. Why is a recap needed as well?

[Doctor.]

To be honest, I would prefer if they deviate from Toriyama's current style. It seems like a downgrade from his Dragon Ball (Z) days.

I don't think that's possible. Doesn't Toriyama have a say in how his own creation should look? He does supervise Dragon Ball productions, does he not? Depending on how much he cares at this point, I feel like he wants Dragon Ball to look a certain way, even if he isn't the one drawing.

I mean that I don't want characters looking like this.

[DarkPrince_92]

I know what you mean Doctor. I don't either, but it's the author's creative license to have the characters look the way he wants, it isn't up to us. Who know's if DBZ will look any better than it does now.

[Zephyr]

I have not seen this extended edition, but, just hearing about this recap and having seen the actual movie... doesn't that sound kinda redundant? I mean, the end credits is a prolonged flipping through of the entire manga. Why is a recap needed as well?

It may be redundant to have that at both the beginning and the end, but I think what they were going for with the one at the beginning in the extended edition was to give the film the feeling that it was a continuation of the main story. I haven't seen it myself, that's just what I suspect was their reason for including one at the beginning.

[JulieYBM]

To be honest, I would prefer if they deviate from Toriyama's current style. It seems like a downgrade from his Dragon Ball (Z) days.

I don't think that's possible. Doesn't Toriyama have a say in how his own creation should look? He does supervise Dragon Ball productions, does he not? Depending on how much he cares at this point, I feel like he wants Dragon Ball to look a certain way, even if he isn't the one drawing.

He might have say, but that doesn't necessarily mean he cares. He argued with Yamamuro over Super Saiyan God's design and eventually won out, but that doesn't consider whether or not the manner in which his designs are adapted is really that important to him. How likely is he to be upset over Tate Naoki rendering Toriyama's concept designs in his own style?

I don't have faith in Toei Animation today to do a newly animated Dragon Ball Z anime any justice. They are cheap bastards and they would do the bare minimum to keep costs down. They know children are gonna buy their crap anyway, so they just do cheap animation to get it over with. SMC is just one example of how they would treat an old show with new animation.

BoG had decent animation, but everything else Dragon Ball related they've done looks like crap. Sure it's "shinier" but it just makes everything look like plastic and the details from the old animation just isn't there anymore. I'm simply not a fan of the new stuff.

Dragon Ball's animation peaked during the Majin Buu saga. That saga had some great animation. Full of details and the characters were well designed. GT wasn't too bad but it didn't touch the Buu saga.

Toei Animation is not the only company producing this film. Just look at the credits for Battle of Gods, money is coming not from only Toei Animation, just as the budget for a new series would come from not only Toei Animation, but other production committee members and sponsors.

Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Crystal's problems are less its budget and more it's lack of time to be created.

[Attitudefan]

As much as I'd like to the series reanimated to be in a uniform art style, I would hate for it to be the current artstyle. It looks so plastic.

It does. And not all digital looks like that, it can look fantastic on a budget. I just caught with everything on Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and the art style looks great. However, much like most digital art today (in animation), it still feels like there is lack of detail when compared to it's manga counterpart and Fist of the North Star (which was animated in the 80s with practically the same art style). Fist has great detail and decent animation (for its time, and on a budget. Compare that to the West's shows on a Television budget like He-Man; Fist looks 10000x better) but has a gritty look to it that I find digital always has a hard time duplicating. Digital animation will always look too clean despite the amount of filters they try to cover the screen with. The animators put those filters there because digital art alone always looks very flat. I see the same thing done by people on all skill levels, see Deviant Art. Filters galore.

Cel animation can get away with the paintings alone. It was so jarring watching Cowboy Bebop when episode 20 and 23 are animated digitally spliced in with re-used footage of some scenery from older episodes; if one has an eye for it, telling the difference is easy but jarring. The problem I had with digital is that it looked to clean. When cel animation is done correctly, it looks more fluid than digital in my opinion because it looks more organic. Look at Akira and Bebop as examples of Cel animation done right. Akira was done before the age of digital animation and looks wonderful, fluid, and more detailed than anything digital.

It is not to say digital is bad, but it is different. I feel cel animation is a lost art form, and SOME ANIME, possibly DBZ, could benefit if a studio were to animate on cel for a special occasion.

Unfortunately, fans of Dragon Ball are not necessarily fans of animation. I seem to remember many users here openly stating that Dragon Ball is the only 'anime' they watch. The current era of Japanese animation has never had stronger talent, especially from young kids who are eager to experiment and the veteran animators and directors willing to both guide and learn from them. Dragon Ball has the unfortunate burden of being a mainstream title, so it doesn't have to rely on quality over quantity.

That's the truth. When watching a one-off film or a short modern anime, the animation can look fantastic. Toei, if I'm not mistaken, produced Wolf Children, and that animation was such a throwback to the titles of old. It looked great, the animation was top notch, and I have no complaints on how it looked. What they did for that film fit.

That's my beef with Dragonball. The animation, the art, the overall look is just misplaced; it doesn't fit. I think Toei should reconsider the overall art of the film and really have an overhaul and freshen it up a bit. The current look is average at best.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball doesn't need to be restricted to physical cel animation. Cel animation has its limits and is more costly than necessary to create well drawn and timed animation. Swap out Yamamuro Tadayoshi with a different character designer and you could have an entirety different result. Disk Wars: Avengers Episode #16 has Tate Naoki as animation supervisor. His corrections filter Yamamuro's character designs through his own style and generate an entirely different look thanks to his use of line thickness and tactful depiction of faces.

Yozakura Quartet: Hana no Uta and Yozakura Quartet: Hoshi no Umi are perfect examples of having splendid a mix of digital and flash animation without needing physical cels. Series Director and Character Designer Ryoo-chimo has his wonderful character designs drawn gorgeously in each episode. The series couldn't look better.

[Chuquita]

All the more reason for me to hope we get someone good as character designer for DB15. I have this sick feeling of "What if they let Yamamuro be both Director and Character Designer so to save money?" that's probably going to worry me until they actually reveal who DB15's Character Designer is.

[JulieYBM]

All the more reason for me to hope we get someone good as character designer for DB15. I have this sick feeling of "What if they let Yamamuro be both Director and Character Designer so to save money?" that's probably going to worry me until they actually reveal who DB15's Character Designer is.

Yamamuro would still be paid for both roles, there wouldn't be any cost-cutting in that manner. If anything his character designs would be reused because of a lack of time to create a new set of designs, although I'm not entirely convinced it would take that long to create new character designs.

[Chuquita]

I understand. I really hope there are new character designs, both because I want to see new ones and because if they go through the trouble of hiring a new Character Designer I feel it'd be better to let that new designer create their own designs rather than have them use the previous designer's work.